Scouting breakdown: Saints offense

02-07-2014, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

First statement I agree with our O has been good for several years, the last 2 in my opionion are in question.
Average O at best, yes, reasoning- not really evolving. If you look at (The greatest show on Turf) their played well for a few years and have done nothing since. A good example of evolving is New England sure they have a turnover rate as any team does but overall are in the hunt more than not, and in my opinion if we don't evolve with the changes of the game we will be the Rams and not New England. For me I like being in the hunt, year in and year out since Payton got here with Brees but there is a window and if the O gets stale there needs to be a change not drastic but a few moving pieces.

New England struggled this year. Gronk was out, they gave away players, their model has not been consistent. If the Pats were a NFC team they would have not made the playoffs this season.

The Greatest Show on turf that won a SB in 1999 was a fluke.. Dick Vermeil did not go on to do bigger or equal things, Kurt Warner didn't go on to do bigger or equal things.

Average is a comparison to peers and we are not an average offense when compared to our peers.

The 2009-2013 Saints have been consistent when Sean Payton was the coach.

You talk about making changes and evolution but that is exactly what happened when Spags was brought it...

If it isnt broken, dont fix it. We are not broken we just have not had as good of a luck streak as we had in 2009.

TheOak · 02-07-2014, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by NonieT

But we still didn't know until the Saints put him, did we?

What exactly does that have to do with the opinion in the article of our ability to upgrade the offensive line in 2014 under the cap?

I do not play the "we do not know until we try" game. If you do not know until you try then right now there is no way to saying "yes you can upgrade the line under the cap".

Not knowing does not mean you can, it means you do not know.

NonieT · 02-07-2014, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

What exactly does that have to do with the opinion in the article of our ability to upgrade the offensive line in 2014 under the cap?

I do not play the "we do not know until we try" game. If you do not know until you try then right now there is no way to saying "yes you can upgrade the line under the cap".

Not knowing does not mean you can, it means you do not know.

Your the one that said putting in a tackle already on the roster and drafting a center wouldn't necessarily be an upgrade. I am simply pointing out that we didn't know Armstead was an upgrade until the Saints put him in. I not playing any kind of game. It is possible to upgrade the Oline under the cap by drafting a center and using a tackle already on the roster. I didn't say I knew I merely said it was possible.

TheOak · 02-07-2014, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by NonieT

Your the one that said putting in a tackle already on the roster and drafting a center wouldn't necessarily be an upgrade. I am simply pointing out that we didn't know Armstead was an upgrade until the Saints put him in. I not playing any kind of game. It is possible to upgrade the Oline under the cap by drafting a center and using a tackle already on the roster. I didn't say I knew I merely said it was possible.

Do what? LOL

How is starting a tackle in 2014 that was the starting tackle at the end of 2013 an upgrade at tackle? Its not an upgrade it is the same.

Also, drafting a Center does not mean you will have a Center that will be an upgrade over DLP or that you will have a starting Center.

Nevermind. Enjoy.

TheOak · 02-07-2014, 03:21 PM

Now i am not sure why Triplett picked this guy as the Scout to talk to, he is not entirely accurate.
" He’s (Kenny Stills) not quite as fast as those guys, he’s not a 4.2 guy.

40 YD
Henderson 4.36
Stills 4.38
Meachem 4.39
Joe Morgan 4.44

K Major · 02-08-2014, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

The Greatest Show on turf that won a SB in 1999 was a fluke.. Dick Vermeil did not go on to do bigger or equal things, Kurt Warner didn't go on to do bigger or equal things.

Huh? Didn't Kurt lead two different teams to a Super Bowl?

TheOak · 02-09-2014, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Huh? Didn't Kurt lead two different teams to a Super Bowl?

The number is three and I said equal or greater. Losing the SB is not equal to winning the SB.

Warner was a fluke. In his 12 season career he only started 13 or more games in 4 seasons. Of a possible 192 starts he started 116 games and he didn't get off to a slow start, he was a full 16 his second year.
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...m?mobile=false

Euphoria · 02-09-2014, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Why? Brees has had 3 consecutive 5000 yard passing seasons and has thrown for 4000 or more yards and 30 or more TDs in each of the last 6 years.

So exactly how is changing the receiver core going to improve the offense?

The line needs to be stabilized so that Brees continues to have time to throw for all those yards and TDs without being harassed or sacked.

I really don't see what can be done in the WR corps that will assist in that effort.

Please explain...

SFIAH

Its about match ups... I don't care if you get 5000 against the bottom half of the league its the upper 6 teams are so our WR or struggling against. The team we need to beat is Seattle and SF. Our WR's aren't getting off the line and getting into their routes. I think they are small and can use an upgrade. Where we are in the draft I see us picking one up in round one as it stands.

hagan714 · 02-09-2014, 08:53 AM

we have done well the past few years drafting defense and it shows

we have not drafted well on offense the past few years and it shows

wr just did not appear to be hungry like they use to, injury or whatever they seem to be enjoying the pay checks a bit to much and need to be challenged

OL is years of bad drafting. depth is a major issue

best way to deal with the cap is through the draft and let some players go that have been here for years. trade back and get additional picks in the 2nd 3rd or even 4th round would go a long way to address the depth issues on both sides of the ball.

we are not that bad of were we must use the early picks. we just need to address depth across the board.

mikey will have his work cut out for him.

saintsfan1976 · 02-10-2014, 11:10 AM

I won't be mad if we go BPA with pick #1

Our second line of defense could use a guy like Ryan Shazier.

Our WR corps needs a playmaker. I don't care what size he is.

Our secondary needs a versatile cover guy who can be physical.

If Bunkley goes, I'd like to see another DT/NT.

Outside of that, I really don't see us going after a OL until later.

02-07-2014, 02:05 PM	#31
Threaded by TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by halloween 65 First statement I agree with our O has been good for several years, the last 2 in my opionion are in question. Average O at best, yes, reasoning- not really evolving. If you look at (The greatest show on Turf) their played well for a few years and have done nothing since. A good example of evolving is New England sure they have a turnover rate as any team does but overall are in the hunt more than not, and in my opinion if we don't evolve with the changes of the game we will be the Rams and not New England. For me I like being in the hunt, year in and year out since Payton got here with Brees but there is a window and if the O gets stale there needs to be a change not drastic but a few moving pieces. New England struggled this year. Gronk was out, they gave away players, their model has not been consistent. If the Pats were a NFC team they would have not made the playoffs this season. The Greatest Show on turf that won a SB in 1999 was a fluke.. Dick Vermeil did not go on to do bigger or equal things, Kurt Warner didn't go on to do bigger or equal things. Average is a comparison to peers and we are not an average offense when compared to our peers. The 2009-2013 Saints have been consistent when Sean Payton was the coach. You talk about making changes and evolution but that is exactly what happened when Spags was brought it... If it isnt broken, dont fix it. We are not broken we just have not had as good of a luck streak as we had in 2009.
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02-07-2014, 02:10 PM	#32
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense Originally Posted by NonieT But we still didn't know until the Saints put him, did we? What exactly does that have to do with the opinion in the article of our ability to upgrade the offensive line in 2014 under the cap? I do not play the "we do not know until we try" game. If you do not know until you try then right now there is no way to saying "yes you can upgrade the line under the cap". Not knowing does not mean you can, it means you do not know.

02-07-2014, 02:20 PM	#33
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense Originally Posted by TheOak What exactly does that have to do with the opinion in the article of our ability to upgrade the offensive line in 2014 under the cap? I do not play the "we do not know until we try" game. If you do not know until you try then right now there is no way to saying "yes you can upgrade the line under the cap". Not knowing does not mean you can, it means you do not know. Your the one that said putting in a tackle already on the roster and drafting a center wouldn't necessarily be an upgrade. I am simply pointing out that we didn't know Armstead was an upgrade until the Saints put him in. I not playing any kind of game. It is possible to upgrade the Oline under the cap by drafting a center and using a tackle already on the roster. I didn't say I knew I merely said it was possible.
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

02-07-2014, 02:32 PM	#34
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense Originally Posted by NonieT Your the one that said putting in a tackle already on the roster and drafting a center wouldn't necessarily be an upgrade. I am simply pointing out that we didn't know Armstead was an upgrade until the Saints put him in. I not playing any kind of game. It is possible to upgrade the Oline under the cap by drafting a center and using a tackle already on the roster. I didn't say I knew I merely said it was possible. Do what? LOL How is starting a tackle in 2014 that was the starting tackle at the end of 2013 an upgrade at tackle? Its not an upgrade it is the same. Also, drafting a Center does not mean you will have a Center that will be an upgrade over DLP or that you will have a starting Center. Nevermind. Enjoy.

02-07-2014, 03:21 PM	#35
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense Now i am not sure why Triplett picked this guy as the Scout to talk to, he is not entirely accurate. " He’s (Kenny Stills) not quite as fast as those guys, he’s not a 4.2 guy. 40 YD Henderson 4.36 Stills 4.38 Meachem 4.39 Joe Morgan 4.44

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02-08-2014, 06:36 PM	#36
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense Originally Posted by TheOak The Greatest Show on turf that won a SB in 1999 was a fluke.. Dick Vermeil did not go on to do bigger or equal things, Kurt Warner didn't go on to do bigger or equal things. Huh? Didn't Kurt lead two different teams to a Super Bowl?

02-09-2014, 05:43 AM	#37
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense Originally Posted by K Major Huh? Didn't Kurt lead two different teams to a Super Bowl? The number is three and I said equal or greater. Losing the SB is not equal to winning the SB. Warner was a fluke. In his 12 season career he only started 13 or more games in 4 seasons. Of a possible 192 starts he started 116 games and he didn't get off to a slow start, he was a full 16 his second year. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...m?mobile=false

02-09-2014, 08:29 AM	#38
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Why? Brees has had 3 consecutive 5000 yard passing seasons and has thrown for 4000 or more yards and 30 or more TDs in each of the last 6 years. So exactly how is changing the receiver core going to improve the offense? The line needs to be stabilized so that Brees continues to have time to throw for all those yards and TDs without being harassed or sacked. I really don't see what can be done in the WR corps that will assist in that effort. Please explain... SFIAH Its about match ups... I don't care if you get 5000 against the bottom half of the league its the upper 6 teams are so our WR or struggling against. The team we need to beat is Seattle and SF. Our WR's aren't getting off the line and getting into their routes. I think they are small and can use an upgrade. Where we are in the draft I see us picking one up in round one as it stands. saintsfan1976 likes this.

02-09-2014, 08:53 AM	#39
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense we have done well the past few years drafting defense and it shows we have not drafted well on offense the past few years and it shows wr just did not appear to be hungry like they use to, injury or whatever they seem to be enjoying the pay checks a bit to much and need to be challenged OL is years of bad drafting. depth is a major issue best way to deal with the cap is through the draft and let some players go that have been here for years. trade back and get additional picks in the 2nd 3rd or even 4th round would go a long way to address the depth issues on both sides of the ball. we are not that bad of were we must use the early picks. we just need to address depth across the board. mikey will have his work cut out for him.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

02-10-2014, 11:10 AM	#40
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,846 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense I won't be mad if we go BPA with pick #1 Our second line of defense could use a guy like Ryan Shazier. Our WR corps needs a playmaker. I don't care what size he is. Our secondary needs a versatile cover guy who can be physical. If Bunkley goes, I'd like to see another DT/NT. Outside of that, I really don't see us going after a OL until later.

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