Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

(Mike Triplett)
ESPN’s NFL scouting Insider Matt Williamson kept a close eye on the New Orleans Saints this year, joining several of our in-game chats with his thoughts on the team. So I reached out to the former Cleveland Browns scout this week to assess the Saints and their needs going forward.

Here are his thoughts on the offense:

Biggest concerns: “I think priority No. 1 has to be retaining (free-agent tight end) Jimmy Graham. I mean, that’s as big a no-brainer as there is in this offseason. And no matter what they have to do to do that, I assume they’ll franchise him. So I think there’s no chance he leaves New Orleans. I’m not going out on a limb there.

“But what worries me -- two things worry me about this offense. First is their offensive line. (Right tackle Zach) Strief and (center Brian) de la Puente are free agents. And (guard) Jahri Evans is expensive. Could he be a cap casualty or a restructure guy? You know, (rookie Terron) Armstead looked good at left tackle. But if they’re tight on funds, that offensive line could be a problem area. And it showed some warts this past year for the first time in a while.

“I think both free agents are underrated, particularly Strief. And I think he’ll be sought after -- though I’m not sure he’s gonna break the bank or anything. And they certainly could use (something like) a third-round pick on whoever moves on. Supposedly it’s a pretty good center draft. Maybe that’s the approach to take. … I don’t know that you can upgrade the offensive line, but you need to at least maintain it.

Read More
Scouting breakdown: Saints offense - New Orleans Saints Blog - ESPN

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

If we want to win a championship we must upgrade that line.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

And WR??

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

So the only players carried over from 2013 to 2014 are RBs, QB, TE? lol

The line is fine after we get a new C.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

And to be honest once Armstead started the whole line looked better, even DLP.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

I don't have the stats to back it up, but I thought DLP looked much better towards the end of the season and into the playoffs as well.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

I thought he looked best after the season when he had his helmet off.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Weeks 1-13
6 QB hurries
2 Qb Hits
2 QB sks

14- DP
4 QB hurries
1 Qb hit
1 QB sack

Charles Brown allowed more HU, Hit, Sk than Grubs and Evans combined.

Armstead had a bad game against Car (first game played) then after that pretty much smoked the rest of our line in grading.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Why? Brees has had 3 consecutive 5000 yard passing seasons and has thrown for 4000 or more yards and 30 or more TDs in each of the last 6 years.

So exactly how is changing the receiver core going to improve the offense?

The line needs to be stabilized so that Brees continues to have time to throw for all those yards and TDs without being harassed or sacked.

I really don't see what can be done in the WR corps that will assist in that effort.

Please explain...

SFIAH

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

dlp keeps getting pushed back into Drew. Brees needs room to step up and dlp isn't doing the job.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Ok.

Of our four top "receivers" - only ONE of those is an actual WR.

Colston and Moore are 30 and the most promising young guy we have on the field is Kenny Stills.

So yes, in addition to the line being stabilized this team could use a solid #2 WR.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Brother, that is more of a function of utilization than skill. If Aliens steal the Ginger Giant the utilization looks entirely different.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

WR production:

SEASON RECEPTIONS RECEIVING YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
2013 164 (36.8%) 2,433 (47.1%) 14 (35.9%)
2012 185 (43.7%) 2,943 (56.7%) 20 (46.5%)
2011 206 (43.6%) 2,924 (53,1%) 24 (52.2%)
2010 235 (52.2%) 2,967 (64.0%) 21 (63.6%)

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

And you think defenses didn't key on it, stifling our offense as a result?

Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

That's a different conversation lol. One which we agree on.

That WR production started declining with Graham and Sproles coming in and being used more as receivers. That is all it is an indicator of because pass attempts and passing yards hasn't declined.

Not sure all new WRs would take targets from Sproles or Graham. Once Payton started trusting Stills he started getting more targets.

You know what I think is predictable? Graham is lined up on the left side of the line and when the ball is snapped he doesn't break into a route. $100 says it's a run to the left side of the field.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

I have to question Graham lining up as a blocker anyway, if he can't block why the crap would he be out there, he isn't selling the route or blocking, it's a disaster in the making. We have gotten way to predictable. I also agree with Graham and Sproles getting targeted to much taking away from the recievers, it's like a crutch you get to use to having then become totally dependent on, and that is predictable also. If I as a fan know this I bet most DC's out there have picked it up also and to think our high powered O was flat all year and our D bailed them out all season. I'm not a betting man but at the start of last year you would have told me our O was going to stink up the place and our D would be the reason we went as far as we did, my reply would have been your crazy, now I ask myself with the same cast of characters returning on the O is it going to be better or worse, we need up-grades, I am tired of being predictable.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Second in the NFL in total passing yards and fourth in the NFL in total yards = "stink up the place"?

That's a pretty high standard you got there.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Was there any constant rytham or total domination or real consistancy in this O all year? Stats really don't tell the story. And how many games do you think we would have won without the D, my guess would 8 maybe less, I don't think that those standards get it.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

This is very encouraging for me. He could very well be a diamond in the rough. All he needs is reps and coaching up.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Same question applies to 31 other teams brother. You could plausibly say Denver had that but with an all star cast of QB and Receivers they still stumbled every now and then.

How many games would Seattle or SF have won with out the D? Carolina?

Some where between 2009 and 2013 some Saints fans have come to some very unrealistic expectations.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

What I'm getting at is, our D was the only thing that actually saved us from being average or below average this season, and with that our O is really no better with what we have now than 2012 with a Spags D maybe worse, average at best, no matter what the stats say. Seattle, San. Fran and Carolina is built for their D, we are built for a high potency O big difference.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

I think he's wrong when he says the Oline can't be upgraded. No we're not as bad as Atlanta but, Drew took more sacks and more pressures than any other time that he has been with the Saints. And I still say if the Oline is fixed, it will fix a lot of other things on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe not everything, but most of it. Look how much better the line got when the Saints switched from Brown to Armstead. It wouldn't hurt to have an upgrade at C and RT tackle.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

There are two ways to look at what he said and in the context of what he said he is correct. Of course you could upgrade a C and T....

Can you upgrade with in the cap, meaning get more for less?

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Come on man.... Thats a fairly myopic view considering our offense is what kept us from being mediocre for the last how many seasons?

Average offense at best? absurd.

I love it when people want to ignore stats... What else is there... jersey color? I can run it that way if you like.

There is very little difference in the design between N.O. and Seattle. I would argue that putting Percy Harvin, Sidney Rice and Marshawn Lynch on the same offense at their cap figures is focusing on being an offensive powerhouse.

Now SF pours nearly all of its money into Defense with the exception of V. Davis.

If you want to see where a team is focusing on when it is being built just look at the position their biggest cap hit is at. It is evidence of what position they value the most.

We had some bad luck and difficult injuries this season... Now fans want to blow up the offense and try to be someone else.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Yes. Can draft a C and Saints already have 3 Tackles(excluding Armstead) on the roster.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

So you are not upgrading at Tackle (you already have it), and drafting a Center means you are getting a new Center but have no clue whether it is an upgrade? That is hardly more for less.

How is using the same 4 Tackles you had for 2013 for 2014 an upgrade?

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Didn't know Armstead was a upgrade until the Saints put him in. He was already on the roster.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

The article came out yesterday. Armstead being an upgrade has been known for a month.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

First statement I agree with our O has been good for several years, the last 2 in my opionion are in question.
Average O at best, yes, reasoning- not really evolving. If you look at (The greatest show on Turf) their played well for a few years and have done nothing since. A good example of evolving is New England sure they have a turnover rate as any team does but overall are in the hunt more than not, and in my opinion if we don't evolve with the changes of the game we will be the Rams and not New England. For me I like being in the hunt, year in and year out since Payton got here with Brees but there is a window and if the O gets stale there needs to be a change not drastic but a few moving pieces.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

But we still didn't know until the Saints put him, did we?

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

New England struggled this year. Gronk was out, they gave away players, their model has not been consistent. If the Pats were a NFC team they would have not made the playoffs this season.

The Greatest Show on turf that won a SB in 1999 was a fluke.. Dick Vermeil did not go on to do bigger or equal things, Kurt Warner didn't go on to do bigger or equal things.


Average is a comparison to peers and we are not an average offense when compared to our peers.

The 2009-2013 Saints have been consistent when Sean Payton was the coach.


You talk about making changes and evolution but that is exactly what happened when Spags was brought it...

If it isnt broken, dont fix it. We are not broken we just have not had as good of a luck streak as we had in 2009.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

What exactly does that have to do with the opinion in the article of our ability to upgrade the offensive line in 2014 under the cap?

I do not play the "we do not know until we try" game. If you do not know until you try then right now there is no way to saying "yes you can upgrade the line under the cap".

Not knowing does not mean you can, it means you do not know.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Your the one that said putting in a tackle already on the roster and drafting a center wouldn't necessarily be an upgrade. I am simply pointing out that we didn't know Armstead was an upgrade until the Saints put him in. I not playing any kind of game. It is possible to upgrade the Oline under the cap by drafting a center and using a tackle already on the roster. I didn't say I knew I merely said it was possible.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Do what? LOL

How is starting a tackle in 2014 that was the starting tackle at the end of 2013 an upgrade at tackle? Its not an upgrade it is the same.

Also, drafting a Center does not mean you will have a Center that will be an upgrade over DLP or that you will have a starting Center.


Nevermind. Enjoy.:crazy:

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Now i am not sure why Triplett picked this guy as the Scout to talk to, he is not entirely accurate.
" He’s (Kenny Stills) not quite as fast as those guys, he’s not a 4.2 guy.

40 YD
Henderson 4.36
Stills 4.38
Meachem 4.39
Joe Morgan 4.44

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Huh? Didn't Kurt lead two different teams to a Super Bowl?

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

The number is three and I said equal or greater. Losing the SB is not equal to winning the SB.

Warner was a fluke. In his 12 season career he only started 13 or more games in 4 seasons. Of a possible 192 starts he started 116 games and he didn't get off to a slow start, he was a full 16 his second year.
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...m?mobile=false

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

Its about match ups... I don't care if you get 5000 against the bottom half of the league its the upper 6 teams are so our WR or struggling against. The team we need to beat is Seattle and SF. Our WR's aren't getting off the line and getting into their routes. I think they are small and can use an upgrade. Where we are in the draft I see us picking one up in round one as it stands.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

we have done well the past few years drafting defense and it shows

we have not drafted well on offense the past few years and it shows

wr just did not appear to be hungry like they use to, injury or whatever they seem to be enjoying the pay checks a bit to much and need to be challenged

OL is years of bad drafting. depth is a major issue

best way to deal with the cap is through the draft and let some players go that have been here for years. trade back and get additional picks in the 2nd 3rd or even 4th round would go a long way to address the depth issues on both sides of the ball.

we are not that bad of were we must use the early picks. we just need to address depth across the board.

mikey will have his work cut out for him.

Re: Scouting breakdown: Saints offense
 

I won't be mad if we go BPA with pick #1

Our second line of defense could use a guy like Ryan Shazier.

Our WR corps needs a playmaker. I don't care what size he is.

Our secondary needs a versatile cover guy who can be physical.

If Bunkley goes, I'd like to see another DT/NT.


Outside of that, I really don't see us going after a OL until later.