Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 580490)

Trade for four number ones ...

Originally Posted by Saintaintso (Post 580502)

That might really change the game ... A team can offer him 10 , and we'd get our 1sts

Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 580535)

Not upset by this. IMO he is a TE. A very gifted one, but a TE no less. I know Jimmy will sign with us. But if he chooses to go elsewhere then we get we picks. I see a very long hold out here. Probably until July or August. If I'm wrong great.

Let's get real tho. Jimmy is a big part of the offense. Do we NEED him? No. Do we WANT him? Yes. Does he make us better? Yes. Does Drew make him better? Absolutely.

They will work out a deal and Jimmy will get signed for the next 5 years. It'll just take most of the off season to do.

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 580541)

Send him to Buffalo for Jarius Byrd and a 1st round pick this year.

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 580577)

I would rather keep Jimmy at 7m that roll the dice on a 1st round pick this year and a first round pick next year.

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 580584)

At 7 million I'd rather keep him too. 7 million is perfect. 8 to 9 is OK, 12 million is absurd.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 580598)

I have no doubt whatsoever Graham (Sexton) and Loomis get a deal put together, probably around the $9.25 million range. That is very workable given the escalating cap.

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 580608)

With the numbers we are talking, that is not as easy as you think. JG is going to want upfront guaranteed and that will git the cap hard,

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 580598)

I have no doubt whatsoever Graham (Sexton) and Loomis get a deal put together, probably around the $9.25 million range. That is very workable given the escalating cap.

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 580608)

With the numbers we are talking, that is not as easy as you think. JG is going to want upfront guaranteed and that will git the cap hard,

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 580610)

Guaranteed monies, as you know, can be prorated across the entire term of the contract. Average salary can still be in the $9.25M range with a signing bonus paid upfront and the short term cap hit could still be far less than that. A $20M signing bonus on a five year contract would only apply $4M in the current year in addition to the base salary. Non-guaranteed amounts, which factor into the average, can be back-loaded into the final two years.



Don't forget, the projected cap for 2014 was only about $125M. The actual 2014 cap is around $133M, going up to $140 in 2015 and $150 or more in 2016. That leaves a great deal of room for Loomis to have at it.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 580612)

It's not going to hit the cap that hard. That's the entire reason why everyone wants to get into long term deals. The player gets their guaranteed money up front. The team gets to spread out the cap hit over the life of the contract.



Say JG gets an $18 million signing bonus on a $60 million contract over 6 years. The cap hit of the signing bonus is only $3 million a year. But JG gets his $18 million on signing day. Salary in years one, two, and three may be $2, $2, $2 million for example. So the cap hit is $5 million per year for the first three years. Then it escalates so that the salary the last year is $15 million.



But guess what? It's only a 3 year contract. After three years (or four) the team can either work with JG to restructure, or cut him and take the hit on the rest of the signing bonus (which is $9 or $6 million at that point). Depending on the release date, it could be spread over two years of dead money.



So everyone wins. It's the "richest" TE contract in history. It "averages" $10 million a year. It's actually a 3 year $24 million contract, with $20 million guaranteed. And the cap hit over the first three years is $5 million instead of $7 million, $8.4 million, and then the crazy QB number if the tag were to go into the third year ($17 million or something like that).



But no one is going to bother to blink this early in the process. The Saints have the leverage of round one (the tag) and round two (tagged as a TE). Round three is the arbitration on the grievance that should be filed by this time tomorrow. And then the waiting game until sometime in July.



And BTW any team in the NFL that's truly willing to give up two FRDP and a huge contract for a TE is foolish. Franchise players get tagged every year. How many of them actually get signed away? There's a reason for that.



All the tag does is keep both sides in the ring for another 4 months trying to work out a contract. Everyone has their job to do. The Saints need to get the best value out of the situation. JG's agent's job is to extract the most money for his client. But just like Brees a couple of years ago, the Saints want the player and the player wants to play for the Saints. So in the end, they will work it out.



I honestly think that the fantasy football here is that some team is going to be stupid or desperate enough to pull the trigger on JG under these conditions.



It's going to be a long offseason. So may as well hunker down.



SFIAH

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 580612)

...JG gets an $18 million signing bonus on a $60 million contract over 6 years. The cap hit of the signing bonus is only $3 million a year. But JG gets his $18 million on signing day. Salary in years one, two, and three may be $2, $2, $2 million for example. So the cap hit is $5 million per year for the first three years. Then it escalates so that the salary the last year is $15 million.

But guess what? It's only a 3 year contract. After three years (or four) the team can either work with JG to restructure, or cut him and take the hit on the rest of the signing bonus (which is $9 or $6 million at that point). Depending on the release date, it could be spread over two years of dead money.

So everyone wins. It's the "richest" TE contract in history. It "averages" $10 million a year. It's actually a 3 year $24 million contract, with $20 million guaranteed. And the cap hit over the first three years is $5 million instead of $7 million, $8.4 million, and then the crazy QB number if the tag were to go into the third year ($17 million or something like that)...

SFIAH

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 580612)

It's not going to hit the cap that hard. That's the entire reason why everyone wants to get into long term deals. The player gets their guaranteed money up front. The team gets to spread out the cap hit over the life of the contract.

Say JG gets an $18 million signing bonus on a $60 million contract over 6 years. The cap hit of the signing bonus is only $3 million a year. But JG gets his $18 million on signing day. Salary in years one, two, and three may be $2, $2, $2 million for example. So the cap hit is $5 million per year for the first three years. Then it escalates so that the salary the last year is $15 million.

But guess what? It's only a 3 year contract. After three years (or four) the team can either work with JG to restructure, or cut him and take the hit on the rest of the signing bonus (which is $9 or $6 million at that point). Depending on the release date, it could be spread over two years of dead money.

So everyone wins. It's the "richest" TE contract in history. It "averages" $10 million a year. It's actually a 3 year $24 million contract, with $20 million guaranteed. And the cap hit over the first three years is $5 million instead of $7 million, $8.4 million, and then the crazy QB number if the tag were to go into the third year ($17 million or something like that).

But no one is going to bother to blink this early in the process. The Saints have the leverage of round one (the tag) and round two (tagged as a TE). Round three is the arbitration on the grievance that should be filed by this time tomorrow. And then the waiting game until sometime in July.

And BTW any team in the NFL that's truly willing to give up two FRDP and a huge contract for a TE is foolish. Franchise players get tagged every year. How many of them actually get signed away? There's a reason for that.

All the tag does is keep both sides in the ring for another 4 months trying to work out a contract. Everyone has their job to do. The Saints need to get the best value out of the situation. JG's agent's job is to extract the most money for his client. But just like Brees a couple of years ago, the Saints want the player and the player wants to play for the Saints. So in the end, they will work it out.

I honestly think that the fantasy football here is that some team is going to be stupid or desperate enough to pull the trigger on JG under these conditions.

It's going to be a long offseason. So may as well hunker down.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 580620)

Why not just give him 10m bonus and balloon the end? 3m cap hit....

2m +1m
2m +1m
2m +1m
2m +1m
2m + 46m

Because he won't sign that cr4p. He wants to be PAID not TOLD.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 580623)

That's why it is a negotiation. There is no reason to do anything until the last minute. Graham is going no where. It will most likely work just like Brees' deal by fitting as much as they could into the current year cap after free agents, other vets and rookies had been signed.

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 580625)

That said, may not want Jimmy out there getting offers for too long.

Jerry just restructured Romo and he is the special type of person that would give the house for Graham.