2014 Saints offense

rezburna · 03-20-2014, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

Speed on offense is overrated. Even with "slow" RBs and WRs you can get 7-8 yards at a time when your offense is a well-oiled machine. I'd way rather have those 15-play, 90-yard drives that kill 8 or 9 minutes off the clock. That's way more demoralizing to the other team than the quick strike, and it keeps your own defense fresh.

That doesn't necessarily mean we have to go ground-n-pound, but you gotta have the ability to get those 3rd and 2's running the ball. Otherwise I like the general structure of our offense, which is still ball-control offense despite so many passing attempts because of the very high completion percentage.

It doesn't have to be all over the field at every position, but you have to have some. You have to be able to stretch the field at some point. We saw our Super Bowl blue print. Explosive plays. Good running game that we used to close out games. Just enough speed in the right places. Converting on 3rd down. Scoring in the red zone.

It's not so much the big play as it is the defense having to always be prepared and change coverage to protect themselves from the big play. I like seeing this 90 yard drives too, but coming from a guy who played in the secondary, giving up bombs destroys the mind of db's. That **** is embarrassing. They'll do anything to stop themselves from getting burned or Moss' d.

blackangold · 03-20-2014, 03:06 PM

We dont need a "power running game" we need a RESPECTED running game so the PA is open. We ran the ball very well in 2009 but we still threw it all over the field. The key is not letting the D sell out on any one aspect of your game. This is the type of complementary football we need to play and i think SP is building the team for it now.

saintfan · 03-20-2014, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

We dont need a "power running game" we need a RESPECTED running game...

Precisely.

The Dude · 03-20-2014, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I wouldn't call Collins one of Payton's most versatile pieces of his offense. He may have been the least versatile.

He's a better blocker and a better receiver out of the backfield.

I do think we'll see a Sproles-ish type RB acquired before the season starts.

Don't we already have someone? His name escapes me but he's been here a while and just got an extension. God I hate it when this happens.
I agree with the OP. I think Payton is building our offense to be able to compete with teams like Seattle with big talented cornerbacks. A finesse type offense just cannot compete with those guys and I think we are building bigger and stronger and more balanced.

WillSaints81 · 03-20-2014, 06:28 PM

Oak already said last week Drew is not going to be a game managing QB.

TheOak · 03-20-2014, 06:32 PM

Top end speed 40yd is over rated, burst and cut quickness is rarely ever mentioned but is the driving force behind a players elusiveness and ability to evade tacklers.

Oh, BTW..... The ball carrier has to duck, dive, and dodge defenders before he can run 40 yards.

rezburna · 03-20-2014, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Top end speed 40yd is over rated, burst and cut quickness is rarely ever mentioned but is the driving force behind a players elusiveness and ability to evade tacklers.

Oh, BTW..... The ball carrier has to duck, dive, and dodge defenders before he can run 40 yards.

I disagree. Speed isn't as lethal as it is on the college and high school levels, but you still need it on your team. You have to be able to stretch the field, even if it's only as a decoy most of the time.

TheOak · 03-21-2014, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I disagree. Speed isn't as lethal as it is on the college and high school levels, but you still need it on your team. You have to be able to stretch the field, even if it's only as a decoy most of the time.

Follow me here. I never said it wasn't needed.

I said "over rated", that 40yd time is what nearly everyone focuses on.....

Please tell me when your Center runs a full 40?

A QB getting from the pocket to the sticks is all burst and cut.

Your example of stretching the field accounts for how many players and positions on the team? 1 position WR, maybe 2 players?

Seattle proved that if you can't get around the corners you can't stretch the field.

Danno · 03-21-2014, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Follow me here. I never said it wasn't needed.

I said "over rated", that 40yd time is what nearly everyone focuses on.....

Please tell me when your Center runs a full 40?

A QB getting from the pocket to the sticks is all burst and cut.

Your example of stretching the field accounts for how many players and positions on the team? 1 position WR, maybe 2 players?

Seattle proved that if you can't get around the corners you can't stretch the field.

Simplified...

Football speed >>> Track speed

TheOak · 03-21-2014, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

Oak already said last week Drew is not going to be a game managing QB.

I suppose that could be read a few different ways.

My definition of a "game managing QB" is one that does what he is told, executes the play called from the side lines the majority of the time, doesn't take the high risk shots, the opposite of a "play making QB".

Brees, Manning, Favre, QBs that make things happen will never be game managers.

Alex Smith is a game manager, very good QB but takes no risk, follows the game plan with very little improvisation.

The running game has nothing to do with either.

Added in edit:

There are QBs that are game managers because of personality... Alex Smith.

Sometimes the coach turns them into one by limiting what they are allowed to do... Both Kaepernick and RBIII were told to stop using their legs so much in the first 3/4 of the season.

Then there is Mark Sanchez..... Someone should have limited his arse a long time ago.

03-20-2014, 02:07 PM	#21
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,935	Re: 2014 Saints offense Originally Posted by Jack Vegas Speed on offense is overrated. Even with "slow" RBs and WRs you can get 7-8 yards at a time when your offense is a well-oiled machine. I'd way rather have those 15-play, 90-yard drives that kill 8 or 9 minutes off the clock. That's way more demoralizing to the other team than the quick strike, and it keeps your own defense fresh. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to go ground-n-pound, but you gotta have the ability to get those 3rd and 2's running the ball. Otherwise I like the general structure of our offense, which is still ball-control offense despite so many passing attempts because of the very high completion percentage. It doesn't have to be all over the field at every position, but you have to have some. You have to be able to stretch the field at some point. We saw our Super Bowl blue print. Explosive plays. Good running game that we used to close out games. Just enough speed in the right places. Converting on 3rd down. Scoring in the red zone. It's not so much the big play as it is the defense having to always be prepared and change coverage to protect themselves from the big play. I like seeing this 90 yard drives too, but coming from a guy who played in the secondary, giving up bombs destroys the mind of db's. That **** is embarrassing. They'll do anything to stop themselves from getting burned or Moss' d.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

03-20-2014, 03:06 PM	#22
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: 2014 Saints offense We dont need a "power running game" we need a RESPECTED running game so the PA is open. We ran the ball very well in 2009 but we still threw it all over the field. The key is not letting the D sell out on any one aspect of your game. This is the type of complementary football we need to play and i think SP is building the team for it now. Utah_Saint likes this.

03-20-2014, 03:54 PM	#23
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: 2014 Saints offense Originally Posted by blackangold We dont need a "power running game" we need a RESPECTED running game... Precisely.

03-20-2014, 05:21 PM	#24
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050	Re: 2014 Saints offense Originally Posted by Danno I wouldn't call Collins one of Payton's most versatile pieces of his offense. He may have been the least versatile. He's a better blocker and a better receiver out of the backfield. I do think we'll see a Sproles-ish type RB acquired before the season starts. Don't we already have someone? His name escapes me but he's been here a while and just got an extension. God I hate it when this happens. I agree with the OP. I think Payton is building our offense to be able to compete with teams like Seattle with big talented cornerbacks. A finesse type offense just cannot compete with those guys and I think we are building bigger and stronger and more balanced.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050

03-20-2014, 06:28 PM	#25
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: 2014 Saints offense Oak already said last week Drew is not going to be a game managing QB.

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03-20-2014, 06:32 PM	#26
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	2014 Saints offense Top end speed 40yd is over rated, burst and cut quickness is rarely ever mentioned but is the driving force behind a players elusiveness and ability to evade tacklers. Oh, BTW..... The ball carrier has to duck, dive, and dodge defenders before he can run 40 yards. Danno and Rugby Saint II like this.

03-20-2014, 06:44 PM	#27
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,935	Re: 2014 Saints offense Originally Posted by TheOak Top end speed 40yd is over rated, burst and cut quickness is rarely ever mentioned but is the driving force behind a players elusiveness and ability to evade tacklers. Oh, BTW..... The ball carrier has to duck, dive, and dodge defenders before he can run 40 yards. I disagree. Speed isn't as lethal as it is on the college and high school levels, but you still need it on your team. You have to be able to stretch the field, even if it's only as a decoy most of the time.

03-21-2014, 08:01 AM	#28
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: 2014 Saints offense Originally Posted by rezburna I disagree. Speed isn't as lethal as it is on the college and high school levels, but you still need it on your team. You have to be able to stretch the field, even if it's only as a decoy most of the time. Follow me here. I never said it wasn't needed. I said "over rated", that 40yd time is what nearly everyone focuses on..... Please tell me when your Center runs a full 40? A QB getting from the pocket to the sticks is all burst and cut. Your example of stretching the field accounts for how many players and positions on the team? 1 position WR, maybe 2 players? Seattle proved that if you can't get around the corners you can't stretch the field.

03-21-2014, 08:42 AM	#29
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: 2014 Saints offense Originally Posted by TheOak Follow me here. I never said it wasn't needed. I said "over rated", that 40yd time is what nearly everyone focuses on..... Please tell me when your Center runs a full 40? A QB getting from the pocket to the sticks is all burst and cut. Your example of stretching the field accounts for how many players and positions on the team? 1 position WR, maybe 2 players? Seattle proved that if you can't get around the corners you can't stretch the field. Simplified... Football speed >>> Track speed

03-21-2014, 08:47 AM	#30
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	2014 Saints offense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 Oak already said last week Drew is not going to be a game managing QB. I suppose that could be read a few different ways. My definition of a "game managing QB" is one that does what he is told, executes the play called from the side lines the majority of the time, doesn't take the high risk shots, the opposite of a "play making QB". Brees, Manning, Favre, QBs that make things happen will never be game managers. Alex Smith is a game manager, very good QB but takes no risk, follows the game plan with very little improvisation. The running game has nothing to do with either. Added in edit: There are QBs that are game managers because of personality... Alex Smith. Sometimes the coach turns them into one by limiting what they are allowed to do... Both Kaepernick and RBIII were told to stop using their legs so much in the first 3/4 of the season. Then there is Mark Sanchez..... Someone should have limited his arse a long time ago. Danno likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau Last edited by TheOak; 03-21-2014 at 10:32 AM..

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