Saints next QB discussion
 

Not here to talk about when per-say but how?

There has been tons of conversation about whether we draft one now to get time under Drew or wait until Drew is about to retire. I had a long drive the other day and i came up with some alternative approaches.

1. Is our offense a Sean Payton offense or a Drew Brees offense (Payton manning like)? E.G. Do you look for a QB that fits our offense or do you find the QB and build our offense to suit?

Now the more intriguing question.

2. What if it isn't really about the when for Sean Payton but more about the who? For me "the who" changes things a good bit. Instead of saying "this or next season is our year to draft", rather ask "who is the best QB we go after"... we ask our selves who will the "best QB for us" be over the next 3 years? He could be a freshman or sophomore right now... You decide that QB-X will be the next Saints QB because he is what we want and need and when the time comes you go after him.


Personally, I would rather draft and start the right rookie for this team than draft someone not as suited to sit under Drew for a few seasons. :bng:

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Which falls inline with ignore the timing, get the right player. When the time comes and that player not on our roster gets to the draft you then decide, is he better than what you have.

You can look at the near poach of Griffin by the Rams one of two ways.

1. They wanted Griffin and we wanted to keep him.

2. They wanted our play book and we wanted to keep it.

Or a 50/50 of both.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire.

In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready.

If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games.

I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot.

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I agree. That's why I'm scratching my head when I see folk picking QBs in the mid round mock drafts.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity?

I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

But Sean had to rebuild (or build) a decent team from a 3-13 Haslett mess.

We had a ton of turnover from 2005 to 2006. He has since added a lot of quality pieces to this team. Talent wise we're better than we have ever been.

Obviously there will be a dropoff without Brees, but there's also a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. If you eliminate QB from all 32 teams, we're still as talented as just about any of them.

Replace Brees with a stud rookie, or a combo of Ryan/McCown, and we're still a playoff team at least as good as Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa, Chicago, Detroit Philly, Arizona, NYG, Washington, Dallas etc.

The only teams I'd rank ahead of us would be Seattle and San Fran, and probably Green Bay.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

I agree with the consensus that the front office and coaching staff see something in Griffin that they like, maybe its because he ran our offense at tulane and is familiar with all the route concepts, maybe its the raw talent the guy has

We've always drafted BPA, so why would that change just because its a QB?
If brees was a season away from retiring and we had no definitive heir ready to step in, I still don't think that we would draft a QB unless payton is 200% sold on him, payton would open it to competition and give the 5th rounder as much chance as a first rounder

if that QB that payton likes is in next years draft, we've all learnt by now that he doesn't follow the book, our team is full of suprises and I think its that aggressive mentality that keeps us a constant super bowl contender

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Payton joined Bill Parcells and the Cowboys as an assistant head coach and a quarterbacks coach in 2003, where he helped coach Quincy Carter, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe to 3,000-yard seasons.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Quincy Carter - First and only 3000 was 2003, it was also his first and only season that he started more than 8 games... Cant give credit to that number to anything but playing.

Vinny Testaverde - Again when Vennie had 16 games of starting anywhere he broke 3000 every season but one... Function of playing

Drew Bledsoe - Had equal or better seasons in New England.

In those three years with those 3 QBs their offense was ranked 21st, 25th, 15th

Drew Brees's success is not because of Sean Payton, and Sean Payton's success is not because of Drew Brees. There is a synergy there between the two where 2+2= 9, it is what you would call that perfect storm.

Its also the reason why I see Sean Payton looking for the synergy again and not a top QB prospect.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

BPA is subjective. If BPA was a known science you could run mock drafts picking BPA and they would all come out the same. Every team grades draft prospects differently.

Because the QB is the foundation of his offense and selecting your next starting QB is arguably the most important decision a head coach ever makes. We are all speculating here, including my self. We have nothing else to go on.

Historically we know absolutely nothing about how Sean Payton would select his next starting QB except that when he had the chance he went with a free agent in a year when he had the #2 pick and all QBs were on the board... Jackson, Cutler, Young, Leinart.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Well, when Sean Payton came here, he got Brees, who was damaged goods if you recall. We didn't even know if he'd start the year. He was even on a pitch count all during the offseason, right up to the season opener. You could tell that whole year that Drew's arm strength wasn't what it should be, but got better as the year went on. Also, IIRC, we went to the NFCCG that year and lost to a rigged game by the NFL against the Bears. I'd say that is hitting the ground running pretty much. We only had one off year during the first 4 years. That's pretty substantial in my book. We've only had 2 down years in the 8 years SP has been our coach, and one of those years he wasn't even coaching the team.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Want to see what Griffin's got this preseason. I like his arm and the way he stands in the pocket. He really throws a nice deep ball too, from what I remember.

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Isn't there a kid from EIU in the draft?

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

You lost me on "rigged game " brother.

Pitch count? 554 passing attempts in 2006... More than he ever threw in San Diego and more than he threw in 2009, if Drew had played in and thrown 40 passes in Week 16 that would match what he threw in 2006.

First 4 years.. Not one "off" season
2006 10-6
2007 7-9
2008 8-8
2009 13-3

Add 2012 Which I never do but for the sake of this we had 3 off seasons in the last 8.. Thats 1 from 50/50.

So as I said, it took a few seasons before 2009 when we became consistent, and Brees coming off surgery is nearly as good as Brees before his surgery. Ever look at Brees Charger stats?

65ish % completion
2005 9th in passing yards 4th in TDs
2004 7th in TDs (15 games)

Sean Payton didn't make lemon-aid out of a lemon.

Saints next QB discussion
 

Double post

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Great Comments all around on this thread. Drew wasn't Sean's 1st choice for QB, it was Romo but Parcel's wouldn't let him go. If SP had gotten Romo, he'd be headed for the HoF. I sit here, totally confident that Loomis & Payton are on top of the QB issue and when the time comes for Drew to retire, we will have a more than capable guy ready to step in and take the reins.

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Id say Brees success definitely has more to do with Payton. Drew didn't roll into town with a playbook.

Ok, so yes I agree that Drew is that one in 20 QB who could have synced with Payton on a mental level.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

I think when Brees retires Payton retires. About 5 years ago he said he couldn't see himself coaching after 5 more years. That was five years ago.

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Do what?!?!

Provide source where Sean Payton said that during out Super Bowl season after being a head coach for only 3 seasons.

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Yeah, Jimmy Garoppolo. He's good, but he'll be a round two pick. I don't see any way we draft a QB this year, especially one as high as the second round.

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I remember hearing that too Dude, but I can't remember if it was actually Payton that said it or a reporter/insider speculating that that was the case.

And I think it was said, or claimed to have been said, when he signed his 5 year extension.

I'm starting to hate those bloggers that phrase speculation as fact. One year later you remember the topic, but forget that it was pure speculation and not fact.

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I'm not advocating anything but you know Payton has been watching this kid.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Cam Newton is up for his first big payday next seasom ;-)

He might actually want to throw to some receivers

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

We trade away all of the next ten year's worth of draft picks for Manziel and Bortles thus relieving every Saints forum anything to talk about between February and July for the next decade.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Around here the 'experts' are saying Aaron Murray is in the Brees mold and could go mid round.

I personally would like to see a couple of options for the future, but it's difficult to keep a 3rd QB. (this should be addressed in the next CBA)

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

That would be fourth QB...

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Correct me if I'm wrong but drafted QB's = Sean Canfield.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Two examples over the last 20 years, and both were ready by their second season.
Not good examples at all

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

There is no litmus test... We can cite examples that go both ways.

Best rookie QBs
ESPN.com: Page 2 : The best rookie quarterbacks

Modern era best rookie QBs
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...220329360.html

You cite Aaron Rodgers but Favre hit the round running in Green Bay his second season. Do you think his greatness came from sitting on the bench in Atlanta for 1 season watching Chris Miller and Billy Joe Tolliver?

Tom Brady learned that much sitting on the bench watching Bledsoe?

Kaepernick owes his 2012 season to the 1 season of watching Alex Smith? They play nothing alike.


Payton Manning hit the ground running.
Russell Wilson hit the ground running.
Cam Newton
RGIII

There is proof that a rookie QB can hit the ground running; there is yet any proof that sitting the bench provides any value, that is assumed. One could certainly argue that a QB doesn't really start learning until he is out on the field and that sitting the bench for a few seasons just robs him of his years.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

Here is one just to stir the ant mound.

Chase Daniel - 4 years under Drew... And now?

Off the top of your head:
Last QB that was mentored by Payton Manning and went on to start somewhere?
" Tom Brady?
" Marino?

In theory you really can't fault the idea and practice. In reality..... There is no proof it produces a better QB, or a starter for that matter.

Re: Saints next QB discussion
 

I can only think of 3 good QBs playing today that sat for 3 or more years.

Tony Romo, Matt Schaub (if you consider him a "good" QB) and Aaron Rodgers, and Rodgers shouldn't count because the only reason he sat was because Favre kept un-retiring.

So basically its just Romo and Schaub.

Now I could kinda see Ryan Griffin being our version of Tony Romo, maybe.

He could be a guy who might need the Romo type development, but I think he'll be gone long to another team before Brees retires anyway.