Saints next QB discussion

TheOak · 04-24-2014, 12:35 PM

Not here to talk about when per-say but how?

There has been tons of conversation about whether we draft one now to get time under Drew or wait until Drew is about to retire. I had a long drive the other day and i came up with some alternative approaches.

1. Is our offense a Sean Payton offense or a Drew Brees offense (Payton manning like)? E.G. Do you look for a QB that fits our offense or do you find the QB and build our offense to suit?

Now the more intriguing question.

2. What if it isn't really about the when for Sean Payton but more about the who? For me "the who" changes things a good bit. Instead of saying "this or next season is our year to draft", rather ask "who is the best QB we go after"... we ask our selves who will the "best QB for us" be over the next 3 years? He could be a freshman or sophomore right now... You decide that QB-X will be the next Saints QB because he is what we want and need and when the time comes you go after him.

Personally, I would rather draft and start the right rookie for this team than draft someone not as suited to sit under Drew for a few seasons.

Halo · 04-24-2014, 01:39 PM

I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin.

TheOak · 04-24-2014, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin.

Which falls inline with ignore the timing, get the right player. When the time comes and that player not on our roster gets to the draft you then decide, is he better than what you have.

You can look at the near poach of Griffin by the Rams one of two ways.

1. They wanted Griffin and we wanted to keep him.

2. They wanted our play book and we wanted to keep it.

Or a 50/50 of both.

Danno · 04-24-2014, 01:57 PM

I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire.

In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready.

If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games.

I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot.

Seer1 · 04-24-2014, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin.

I agree. That's why I'm scratching my head when I see folk picking QBs in the mid round mock drafts.

TheOak · 04-24-2014, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire.

In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready.

If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games.

I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot.

So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity?

I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

Danno · 04-24-2014, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity?

I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

But Sean had to rebuild (or build) a decent team from a 3-13 Haslett mess.

We had a ton of turnover from 2005 to 2006. He has since added a lot of quality pieces to this team. Talent wise we're better than we have ever been.

Obviously there will be a dropoff without Brees, but there's also a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. If you eliminate QB from all 32 teams, we're still as talented as just about any of them.

Replace Brees with a stud rookie, or a combo of Ryan/McCown, and we're still a playoff team at least as good as Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa, Chicago, Detroit Philly, Arizona, NYG, Washington, Dallas etc.

The only teams I'd rank ahead of us would be Seattle and San Fran, and probably Green Bay.

dizzle88 · 04-24-2014, 03:36 PM

I agree with the consensus that the front office and coaching staff see something in Griffin that they like, maybe its because he ran our offense at tulane and is familiar with all the route concepts, maybe its the raw talent the guy has

We've always drafted BPA, so why would that change just because its a QB?
If brees was a season away from retiring and we had no definitive heir ready to step in, I still don't think that we would draft a QB unless payton is 200% sold on him, payton would open it to competition and give the 5th rounder as much chance as a first rounder

if that QB that payton likes is in next years draft, we've all learnt by now that he doesn't follow the book, our team is full of suprises and I think its that aggressive mentality that keeps us a constant super bowl contender

saintsfan1976 · 04-24-2014, 07:20 PM

Payton joined Bill Parcells and the Cowboys as an assistant head coach and a quarterbacks coach in 2003, where he helped coach Quincy Carter, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe to 3,000-yard seasons.

TheOak · 04-25-2014, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Payton joined Bill Parcells and the Cowboys as an assistant head coach and a quarterbacks coach in 2003, where he helped coach Quincy Carter, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe to 3,000-yard seasons.

Quincy Carter - First and only 3000 was 2003, it was also his first and only season that he started more than 8 games... Cant give credit to that number to anything but playing.

Vinny Testaverde - Again when Vennie had 16 games of starting anywhere he broke 3000 every season but one... Function of playing

Drew Bledsoe - Had equal or better seasons in New England.

In those three years with those 3 QBs their offense was ranked 21st, 25th, 15th

Drew Brees's success is not because of Sean Payton, and Sean Payton's success is not because of Drew Brees. There is a synergy there between the two where 2+2= 9, it is what you would call that perfect storm.

Its also the reason why I see Sean Payton looking for the synergy again and not a top QB prospect.

04-24-2014, 12:35 PM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Saints next QB discussion Not here to talk about when per-say but how? There has been tons of conversation about whether we draft one now to get time under Drew or wait until Drew is about to retire. I had a long drive the other day and i came up with some alternative approaches. 1. Is our offense a Sean Payton offense or a Drew Brees offense (Payton manning like)? E.G. Do you look for a QB that fits our offense or do you find the QB and build our offense to suit? Now the more intriguing question. 2. What if it isn't really about the when for Sean Payton but more about the who? For me "the who" changes things a good bit. Instead of saying "this or next season is our year to draft", rather ask "who is the best QB we go after"... we ask our selves who will the "best QB for us" be over the next 3 years? He could be a freshman or sophomore right now... You decide that QB-X will be the next Saints QB because he is what we want and need and when the time comes you go after him. Personally, I would rather draft and start the right rookie for this team than draft someone not as suited to sit under Drew for a few seasons. pumpkindriver and Sarik like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

04-24-2014, 01:39 PM	#2
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,208 Blog Entries: 45	Re: Saints next QB discussion I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin. biloxi-indian, foreverfan, jeanpierre and 2 others like this.

04-24-2014, 01:57 PM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by Halo I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin. Which falls inline with ignore the timing, get the right player. When the time comes and that player not on our roster gets to the draft you then decide, is he better than what you have. You can look at the near poach of Griffin by the Rams one of two ways. 1. They wanted Griffin and we wanted to keep him. 2. They wanted our play book and we wanted to keep it. Or a 50/50 of both.

04-24-2014, 01:57 PM	#4
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Saints next QB discussion I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire. In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready. If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games. I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot. Halo and pumpkindriver like this.

04-24-2014, 02:02 PM	#5
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by Halo I think we need to wait and see what happens with this kid Ryan Griffin. When another team tried to scoop him from our practice squad, Loomis and the front office locked him down like he was a secret weapon no one knows about. And why would teams want to sign a practice squad development player? I think there will be many questions about the future at QB, and let the speculations begin. I agree. That's why I'm scratching my head when I see folk picking QBs in the mid round mock drafts.

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04-24-2014, 02:27 PM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by Danno I'll worry about it in 3 or 4 years when Payton and/or Brees retire. In today's NFL, you don't groom QB's for more than a year before they're ready. If Brees retired tomorrow I'm sure Loomis and Payton could acquire a QB in the draft or via free-agency that could win us at least 8 or 9 games. I'm convinced Payton could win with Carr, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Garoppolo, or even Mettenberger. We may not win 14, but I think we'd win 8-plus and compete for a playoff spot. So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity? I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived..

04-24-2014, 02:58 PM	#7
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by TheOak So with Sean Payton as coach the QB position is somewhat a commodity? I am not so sure, it took Payton and Brees a few seasons to get things where they are. Sean didn't just hit the ground running for the first few seasons in NO, Brees was pretty stout before and once he arrived.. But Sean had to rebuild (or build) a decent team from a 3-13 Haslett mess. We had a ton of turnover from 2005 to 2006. He has since added a lot of quality pieces to this team. Talent wise we're better than we have ever been. Obviously there will be a dropoff without Brees, but there's also a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. If you eliminate QB from all 32 teams, we're still as talented as just about any of them. Replace Brees with a stud rookie, or a combo of Ryan/McCown, and we're still a playoff team at least as good as Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa, Chicago, Detroit Philly, Arizona, NYG, Washington, Dallas etc. The only teams I'd rank ahead of us would be Seattle and San Fran, and probably Green Bay.

04-24-2014, 03:36 PM	#8
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Saints next QB discussion I agree with the consensus that the front office and coaching staff see something in Griffin that they like, maybe its because he ran our offense at tulane and is familiar with all the route concepts, maybe its the raw talent the guy has We've always drafted BPA, so why would that change just because its a QB? If brees was a season away from retiring and we had no definitive heir ready to step in, I still don't think that we would draft a QB unless payton is 200% sold on him, payton would open it to competition and give the 5th rounder as much chance as a first rounder if that QB that payton likes is in next years draft, we've all learnt by now that he doesn't follow the book, our team is full of suprises and I think its that aggressive mentality that keeps us a constant super bowl contender
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

04-24-2014, 07:20 PM	#9
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,535 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints next QB discussion Payton joined Bill Parcells and the Cowboys as an assistant head coach and a quarterbacks coach in 2003, where he helped coach Quincy Carter, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe to 3,000-yard seasons.

04-25-2014, 07:38 AM	#10
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Saints next QB discussion Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Payton joined Bill Parcells and the Cowboys as an assistant head coach and a quarterbacks coach in 2003, where he helped coach Quincy Carter, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe to 3,000-yard seasons. Quincy Carter - First and only 3000 was 2003, it was also his first and only season that he started more than 8 games... Cant give credit to that number to anything but playing. Vinny Testaverde - Again when Vennie had 16 games of starting anywhere he broke 3000 every season but one... Function of playing Drew Bledsoe - Had equal or better seasons in New England. In those three years with those 3 QBs their offense was ranked 21st, 25th, 15th Drew Brees's success is not because of Sean Payton, and Sean Payton's success is not because of Drew Brees. There is a synergy there between the two where 2+2= 9, it is what you would call that perfect storm. Its also the reason why I see Sean Payton looking for the synergy again and not a top QB prospect.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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