Look at it this way...

shadowdrinker_x · 11-22-2004, 10:15 PM

The state has to aske him to leave... he can\'t just leave and break the contract. If the state wants to break it fine... but that isn\'t going to happen. I can tell you aren\'t a buisnessman because all it is is buisness negociations... thats what you do... start high. Benson started hi and now he has backed off his rebuild demand... duh... Saints aren\'t going anywheres... NFL doesn\'t want the Saints there.

Do you honestly expect the Team in it\'s entirety to go to L.A.?..And let me clue you in..To break a contract..Only One side has to withdrawl...Thats all..Benson could easily make the Contract Null and Void..And..Still come away smelling like a Rose...The State owes him money...they have allready Faltered on thier part in fulfillment of the said agreement...It won\'t be hard for benson to move if he desires..And..on top of that..Open your eyes..Open your ears..WE ARE AMONG THE TOP CANDIDATES TO MOVE...You hear it on every Talk show..or Radio show that in any way mentions the Saints...Tom Benson himself just recently threatened to move...He knows what the Contract is... And you can bet this isn\'t some Instant Decision..the League has been forcasting numbers for years..on the Potential of a Team in L.A...And Tom knows exactly what he stands to lose..or gain...That is Precisely why he is so Arrogant in his negotiations..But..all that aside..I\'m not trying to pick a fight with you man..You can dance your dance..and sing your song..And insult me to your Hearts content...But..When change does come around...Don\'t break your little arms patting yourself on the back. People like that are the very reason this Team has been allowed to Fail..and Fail again...

JKool · 11-22-2004, 10:43 PM

sdx,

That was much easier to follow; now if we can just get some paragraphs...

WhoDat · 11-22-2004, 11:03 PM

every week ...this team moves a little closer to cali...its just fact...contract?..did you not read bensons words..either a new stadium..a highly rebuilt one..or they move...plain and simple..thats from the chief\'s mouth...with the money the state owes the saints..it is highly likely that if benson were to move,..he could get out of the contract for .

Uh - if the Saints leave before 2009 (one year AFTER Tagliapoo wants a team in LA) they have to pay the State 80 million dollars. They say that MAYBE they can get the league to spend 40 on a stadium deal. You think Benson\'s going to pay that? Or is he going to sell the 8th most profitable franchise in the most profitable league in the country?

Just wondering? Maybe you could clue us in, b/ the rest of us are apparently lost.

shadowdrinker_x · 11-23-2004, 12:15 AM

New OrleansÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â€ÂSaint owner Tom Benson says he wants to keep the team in New Orleans and last week signed a 10-year, $186-million deal with the state to keep the franchise among the top 16 teams in local revenue. But escape clauses remain in the lease, and it\'s unclear whether New Orleans can continue to support an NFL team, let alone the transplanted Charlotte Hornets.
http://www.latimes.com/la-000034663m...C7991097.story

http://www.keepmedia.com/acct/QuickR...d=aQwfOZX6QNcd

NFL to L.A. in \'08?

Major trial-balloon-floating from NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who says the league hopes to pick a Los Angeles stadium site by next May, with a team to begin play in 2008. As for what team, the Washington Post cites \"executives around the league\" as saying that an expansion team is less likely that relocation of an existing franchise such as the San Diego Chargers, Indianapolis Colts or New Orleans Saints, all of which are currently mired in local stadium battles. (And as for who would pay for the L.A. stadium, neither Tagliabue nor the Post said a word.)

The timing of the May 2005 deadline seems targeted at the TV networks: the NFL\'s TV contracts expire after the 2005 season, and swapping a small market like New Orleans for the nation\'s second-largest media market could help boost the sale price of the league\'s broadcast rights. Whether a league commitment to L.A. without an L.A. commitment to stadium cash - as seems likely, given the city council\'s past distaste for funding a football stadium - will be enough to pry Rupert Murdoch\'s claws off a few million more Foxbucks is uncertain, and could make for some interesting internal NFL debates about using league money instead.

This, ... I threw in just for fun..

Feedback On The Corner
Ron writes in:

The people at BlackandGold.net need to take off the rose-colored glasses.This doesn\'t have to do just with the cornerback situation,but overall.They put too much of a positive spin on every situation and aren\'t unbiased like a true reporting staff should be.Don\'t get me wrong...I love the fact that they\'re Saints fans,but sometimes you have to tell it like it is instead of playing spin doctor.

Now..I don\'t know where you get your numbers from..but..we are well below the \'\'8th highest \'\' in the League in profit...It\'s a very real threat...This team is on the verge of moving...Keep your eyes on Benson..He will Reveal his true plans soon

JOESAM2002 · 11-23-2004, 01:09 AM

shadowdrinker_x, I have 2 problems with your post. First, your link to keepmedia.com is not working.

Second, Could you please provide me with a link to this fellow Ron\'s statement about BlackandGold.net.

I read every post every day and I\'m having a real hard time finding where the rose colored glasses are that he or you talk about. Seems to me most in here aren\'t to happy with the way things are.

[Edited on 23/11/2004 by JOESAM2002]

mutineer10 · 11-23-2004, 02:12 AM

SDX, did you notice that LA Times article was from MAY 16, 2002??? C\'mon now, don\'t be acting like the Atlanta fans from the other post!

Falcons 27, Packers 7 ... Playoffs 2002 ... Lord have mercy ...

I don\'t want the Saints to go, and I don\'t think they will. Is it self-preserving optimism on my part? I hope not. I\'ll not claim to be a businessman (though I see the logic of haggling), and I\'ll admit alot of these articles I\'ve read in the Times-Picayune, nola.com, and others you guys have posted just leave me feeling more confused and frustrated. But the majority of you guys seem to think the Saints are staying, and I hope and pray the majority rules.

shadowdrinker_x · 11-23-2004, 04:51 AM

The Main reason i was posting past dated discussions is..to further prove a point i made earlier, about the discussions suggesting this team be moved to not be some new trend,.This is , as i have stated , a very much evaluated and formulated series of events..and it has been researched... And I feel like it is important..because we need all the knowledge we can get at this point..and i did not try to hide the dates,..it was proving my point.

and as far as the link to the ron\'s statment, It was taken from the archive at NOLA.com..I was scrolling through and found it..I really don\'t want to search for it again..but.., Here\'s the link

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/saints/i...s/2003_05.html

Knock Yourself out..but..Don\'t accuse me of making stuff up...

This wasn\'t meant to demoralize the bng.net..it was not even written by me..

And..I feel like that was an Attack, by a mod, to a person who just wanted to go out and find evidence on his own..The simple fact that it didn\'t neccesarilly agree with what the mods have been saying...Makes me a Liar?

I\'m not going to swallow everything posted on this , Or any place, Regardless of said authors status in the forum

I research, Evaluate, And draw conclusions based on what i have read on here, as well as other places, And to be Ridiculed for bieng the messenger of bad news is standard procedure...And ..It is ok..I know your real hostility is directed by your own uncertainty..and doubts , as to the future of the franchise..and i cannot blame you for that..But..to blindly accuse people of lying to save face...well..its pretty much standard procedure as well..

BlackandBlue · 11-23-2004, 08:00 AM

And..I feel like that was an Attack, by a mod, to a person who just wanted to go out and find evidence on his own.

Give it a rest, nobody\'s attacking you. If that\'s an attack, you need to grow some thicker skin.

WhoDat · 11-23-2004, 09:52 AM

Now..I don\'t know where you get your numbers from..but..we are well below the \'\'8th highest \'\' in the League in profit

Oh really? We are? Intersting, B/c FORBES, you might have heard of them, they\'re a small business publication, reported in 2003 on all 32 NFL franchises. Here ya go - a link that actually works:

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/0915/081tab.html

Take a look at the column titled Operating INCOME - that\'s PROFIT before taxes. The Saints are 8th in the league - if you add $10 mil a year in State incentives they\'re THIRD. Benson is crying poor like EVERY OTHER OWNER in a small market, but it has nothnig to do with REALITY. Look at Minnesota, Indianapolis, Arizona, San Diego (which is larger and far more wealthy than NO), etc.

LA is not a good option. There are 10+ million people in parts of TX, LA, MS, and AL that are within the Saints market. There are two teams - the Saints and Hornets. There are about 15 million people in and around LA. LA has 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, th NHL, MLS, and a slew of smaller teams... and they have proven twice that they won\'t support football. What they do have is more business to buy suites - but then again, those businesses are pretty well spread thin in supporting all the other franchises there... not to mention the fashion and entertainment industries out there. A team in LA might stay, but it will not be successful.

The same goes for San Antonio, which is larger than NO, but in a State with 2 other teams, and is a city that is per capita even more poor than NO. Portland might be the best place from another NFL franchise... but hey, you know all about the Saints - you read inflamatory stories in the LA Times and that tells you all you need to know aout a situation 2,000 miles away right?

shadowdrinker_x · 11-23-2004, 11:12 AM

Now..I don\'t know where you get your numbers from..but..we are well below the \'\'8th highest \'\' in the League in profit

Oh really? We are? Intersting, B/c FORBES, you might have heard of them, they\'re a small business publication, reported in 2003 on all 32 NFL franchises. Here ya go - a link that actually works:

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/0915/081tab.html

Take a look at the column titled Operating INCOME - that\'s PROFIT before taxes. The Saints are 8th in the league - if you add $10 mil a year in State incentives they\'re THIRD. Benson is crying poor like EVERY OTHER OWNER in a small market, but it has nothnig to do with REALITY. Look at Minnesota, Indianapolis, Arizona, San Diego (which is larger and far more wealthy than NO), etc.

LA is not a good option. There are 10+ million people in parts of TX, LA, MS, and AL that are within the Saints market. There are two teams - the Saints and Hornets. There are about 15 million people in and around LA. LA has 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, th NHL, MLS, and a slew of smaller teams... and they have proven twice that they won\'t support football. What they do have is more business to buy suites - but then again, those businesses are pretty well spread thin in supporting all the other franchises there... not to mention the fashion and entertainment industries out there. A team in LA might stay, but it will not be successful.

The same goes for San Antonio, which is larger than NO, but in a State with 2 other teams, and is a city that is per capita even more poor than NO. Portland might be the best place from another NFL franchise... but hey, you know all about the Saints - you read inflamatory stories in the LA Times and that tells you all you need to know aout a situation 2,000 miles away right?

herre a link that works too..except..this is the 2004 numbers..not the 2002 numbers...

http://www.forbes.com/lists/results....=&passKeyword=

now..how on earth can a team drop in value for two consecutive years...and miraculously move up 18 spots?...plus..you fail to include other teams incentive packages..this is getting laughable now..

also..the saints and hornets are not the only teams in that area..the texans..the rockets..astros..spurs...quite a few really..even more..can\'t really mention texas market without mentioning all of the teams that reside near said market..dallas is a bit too far away to drain from this area...even with the smallish market..there are huge revenues to be found in it...and several franchises doing so..ultimately..the focus is not on getting a super succesful team in l.a.,..the focus is getting a team in place there..and established..to get, when the time comes,a television contract to behemoth all others..the shared revenue will raise considerably...and you get healthy by replacing the weak with the strong...and we are bottom feeders in the revenus department

[Edited on 23/11/2004 by shadowdrinker_x]

11-22-2004, 10:15 PM	#11
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Look at it this way... The state has to aske him to leave... he can\'t just leave and break the contract. If the state wants to break it fine... but that isn\'t going to happen. I can tell you aren\'t a buisnessman because all it is is buisness negociations... thats what you do... start high. Benson started hi and now he has backed off his rebuild demand... duh... Saints aren\'t going anywheres... NFL doesn\'t want the Saints there. Do you honestly expect the Team in it\'s entirety to go to L.A.?..And let me clue you in..To break a contract..Only One side has to withdrawl...Thats all..Benson could easily make the Contract Null and Void..And..Still come away smelling like a Rose...The State owes him money...they have allready Faltered on thier part in fulfillment of the said agreement...It won\'t be hard for benson to move if he desires..And..on top of that..Open your eyes..Open your ears..WE ARE AMONG THE TOP CANDIDATES TO MOVE...You hear it on every Talk show..or Radio show that in any way mentions the Saints...Tom Benson himself just recently threatened to move...He knows what the Contract is... And you can bet this isn\'t some Instant Decision..the League has been forcasting numbers for years..on the Potential of a Team in L.A...And Tom knows exactly what he stands to lose..or gain...That is Precisely why he is so Arrogant in his negotiations..But..all that aside..I\'m not trying to pick a fight with you man..You can dance your dance..and sing your song..And insult me to your Hearts content...But..When change does come around...Don\'t break your little arms patting yourself on the back. People like that are the very reason this Team has been allowed to Fail..and Fail again...

11-22-2004, 10:43 PM	#12
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Look at it this way... sdx, That was much easier to follow; now if we can just get some paragraphs...

11-22-2004, 11:03 PM	#13
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Look at it this way... every week ...this team moves a little closer to cali...its just fact...contract?..did you not read bensons words..either a new stadium..a highly rebuilt one..or they move...plain and simple..thats from the chief\'s mouth...with the money the state owes the saints..it is highly likely that if benson were to move,..he could get out of the contract for . Uh - if the Saints leave before 2009 (one year AFTER Tagliapoo wants a team in LA) they have to pay the State 80 million dollars. They say that MAYBE they can get the league to spend 40 on a stadium deal. You think Benson\'s going to pay that? Or is he going to sell the 8th most profitable franchise in the most profitable league in the country? Just wondering? Maybe you could clue us in, b/ the rest of us are apparently lost.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-23-2004, 12:15 AM	#14
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Look at it this way... New OrleansÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â€ÂSaint owner Tom Benson says he wants to keep the team in New Orleans and last week signed a 10-year, $186-million deal with the state to keep the franchise among the top 16 teams in local revenue. But escape clauses remain in the lease, and it\'s unclear whether New Orleans can continue to support an NFL team, let alone the transplanted Charlotte Hornets. http://www.latimes.com/la-000034663m...C7991097.story http://www.keepmedia.com/acct/QuickR...d=aQwfOZX6QNcd NFL to L.A. in \'08? Major trial-balloon-floating from NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who says the league hopes to pick a Los Angeles stadium site by next May, with a team to begin play in 2008. As for what team, the Washington Post cites \"executives around the league\" as saying that an expansion team is less likely that relocation of an existing franchise such as the San Diego Chargers, Indianapolis Colts or New Orleans Saints, all of which are currently mired in local stadium battles. (And as for who would pay for the L.A. stadium, neither Tagliabue nor the Post said a word.) The timing of the May 2005 deadline seems targeted at the TV networks: the NFL\'s TV contracts expire after the 2005 season, and swapping a small market like New Orleans for the nation\'s second-largest media market could help boost the sale price of the league\'s broadcast rights. Whether a league commitment to L.A. without an L.A. commitment to stadium cash - as seems likely, given the city council\'s past distaste for funding a football stadium - will be enough to pry Rupert Murdoch\'s claws off a few million more Foxbucks is uncertain, and could make for some interesting internal NFL debates about using league money instead. This, ... I threw in just for fun.. Feedback On The Corner Ron writes in: The people at BlackandGold.net need to take off the rose-colored glasses.This doesn\'t have to do just with the cornerback situation,but overall.They put too much of a positive spin on every situation and aren\'t unbiased like a true reporting staff should be.Don\'t get me wrong...I love the fact that they\'re Saints fans,but sometimes you have to tell it like it is instead of playing spin doctor. Now..I don\'t know where you get your numbers from..but..we are well below the \'\'8th highest \'\' in the League in profit...It\'s a very real threat...This team is on the verge of moving...Keep your eyes on Benson..He will Reveal his true plans soon

11-23-2004, 01:09 AM	#15
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Look at it this way... shadowdrinker_x, I have 2 problems with your post. First, your link to keepmedia.com is not working. Second, Could you please provide me with a link to this fellow Ron\'s statement about BlackandGold.net. I read every post every day and I\'m having a real hard time finding where the rose colored glasses are that he or you talk about. Seems to me *most* in here aren\'t to happy with the way things are. [Edited on 23/11/2004 by JOESAM2002]

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11-23-2004, 02:12 AM	#16
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Look at it this way... SDX, did you notice that LA Times article was from MAY 16, 2002??? C\'mon now, don\'t be acting like the Atlanta fans from the other post! Falcons 27, Packers 7 ... Playoffs 2002 ... Lord have mercy ... I don\'t want the Saints to go, and I don\'t think they will. Is it self-preserving optimism on my part? I hope not. I\'ll not claim to be a businessman (though I see the logic of haggling), and I\'ll admit alot of these articles I\'ve read in the Times-Picayune, nola.com, and others you guys have posted just leave me feeling more confused and frustrated. But the majority of you guys seem to think the Saints are staying, and I hope and pray the majority rules.

11-23-2004, 04:51 AM	#17
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Look at it this way... The Main reason i was posting past dated discussions is..to further prove a point i made earlier, about the discussions suggesting this team be moved to not be some new trend,.This is , as i have stated , a very much evaluated and formulated series of events..and it has been researched... And I feel like it is important..because we need all the knowledge we can get at this point..and i did not try to hide the dates,..it was proving my point. and as far as the link to the ron\'s statment, It was taken from the archive at NOLA.com..I was scrolling through and found it..I really don\'t want to search for it again..but.., Here\'s the link http://www.nola.com/weblogs/saints/i...s/2003_05.html Knock Yourself out..but..Don\'t accuse me of making stuff up... This wasn\'t meant to demoralize the bng.net..it was not even written by me.. And..I feel like that was an Attack, by a mod, to a person who just wanted to go out and find evidence on his own..The simple fact that it didn\'t neccesarilly agree with what the mods have been saying...Makes me a Liar? I\'m not going to swallow everything posted on this , Or any place, Regardless of said authors status in the forum I research, Evaluate, And draw conclusions based on what i have read on here, as well as other places, And to be Ridiculed for bieng the messenger of bad news is standard procedure...And ..It is ok..I know your real hostility is directed by your own uncertainty..and doubts , as to the future of the franchise..and i cannot blame you for that..But..to blindly accuse people of lying to save face...well..its pretty much standard procedure as well..

11-23-2004, 08:00 AM	#18
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Look at it this way... And..I feel like that was an Attack, by a mod, to a person who just wanted to go out and find evidence on his own. Give it a rest, nobody\'s attacking you. If that\'s an attack, you need to grow some thicker skin.

11-23-2004, 09:52 AM	#19
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Look at it this way... Now..I don\'t know where you get your numbers from..but..we are well below the \'\'8th highest \'\' in the League in profit Oh really? We are? Intersting, B/c FORBES, you might have heard of them, they\'re a small business publication, reported in 2003 on all 32 NFL franchises. Here ya go - a link that actually works: http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/0915/081tab.html Take a look at the column titled Operating INCOME - that\'s PROFIT before taxes. The Saints are 8th in the league - if you add $10 mil a year in State incentives they\'re THIRD. Benson is crying poor like EVERY OTHER OWNER in a small market, but it has nothnig to do with REALITY. Look at Minnesota, Indianapolis, Arizona, San Diego (which is larger and far more wealthy than NO), etc. LA is not a good option. There are 10+ million people in parts of TX, LA, MS, and AL that are within the Saints market. There are two teams - the Saints and Hornets. There are about 15 million people in and around LA. LA has 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, th NHL, MLS, and a slew of smaller teams... and they have proven twice that they won\'t support football. What they do have is more business to buy suites - but then again, those businesses are pretty well spread thin in supporting all the other franchises there... not to mention the fashion and entertainment industries out there. A team in LA might stay, but it will not be successful. The same goes for San Antonio, which is larger than NO, but in a State with 2 other teams, and is a city that is per capita even more poor than NO. Portland might be the best place from another NFL franchise... but hey, you know all about the Saints - you read inflamatory stories in the LA Times and that tells you all you need to know aout a situation 2,000 miles away right?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-23-2004, 11:12 AM	#20
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Look at it this way... Now..I don\'t know where you get your numbers from..but..we are well below the \'\'8th highest \'\' in the League in profit Oh really? We are? Intersting, B/c FORBES, you might have heard of them, they\'re a small business publication, reported in 2003 on all 32 NFL franchises. Here ya go - a link that actually works: http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/0915/081tab.html Take a look at the column titled Operating INCOME - that\'s PROFIT before taxes. The Saints are 8th in the league - if you add $10 mil a year in State incentives they\'re THIRD. Benson is crying poor like EVERY OTHER OWNER in a small market, but it has nothnig to do with REALITY. Look at Minnesota, Indianapolis, Arizona, San Diego (which is larger and far more wealthy than NO), etc. LA is not a good option. There are 10+ million people in parts of TX, LA, MS, and AL that are within the Saints market. There are two teams - the Saints and Hornets. There are about 15 million people in and around LA. LA has 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, th NHL, MLS, and a slew of smaller teams... and they have proven twice that they won\'t support football. What they do have is more business to buy suites - but then again, those businesses are pretty well spread thin in supporting all the other franchises there... not to mention the fashion and entertainment industries out there. A team in LA might stay, but it will not be successful. The same goes for San Antonio, which is larger than NO, but in a State with 2 other teams, and is a city that is per capita even more poor than NO. Portland might be the best place from another NFL franchise... but hey, you know all about the Saints - you read inflamatory stories in the LA Times and that tells you all you need to know aout a situation 2,000 miles away right? herre a link that works too..except..this is the 2004 numbers..not the 2002 numbers... http://www.forbes.com/lists/results....=&passKeyword= now..how on earth can a team drop in value for two consecutive years...and miraculously move up 18 spots?...plus..you fail to include other teams incentive packages..this is getting laughable now.. also..the saints and hornets are not the only teams in that area..the texans..the rockets..astros..spurs...quite a few really..even more..can\'t really mention texas market without mentioning all of the teams that reside near said market..dallas is a bit too far away to drain from this area...even with the smallish market..there are huge revenues to be found in it...and several franchises doing so..ultimately..the focus is not on getting a super succesful team in l.a.,..the focus is getting a team in place there..and established..to get, when the time comes,a television contract to behemoth all others..the shared revenue will raise considerably...and you get healthy by replacing the weak with the strong...and we are bottom feeders in the revenus department [Edited on 23/11/2004 by shadowdrinker_x]