Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver

06-13-2014, 11:26 AM

So tired of hearing about this junk. The guy is a tight end who moves around the formation, no different than half the tight ends in the league anymore. Why are we still talking about this crap? So tiresome.

Rugby Saint II · 06-13-2014, 01:38 PM

He is certainly not a blocking TE. If he's a WR then he's really slow.

halloween 65 · 06-13-2014, 03:32 PM

Very good read!! Excellent really!!

Michigan_SF · 06-13-2014, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

He is certainly not a blocking TE. If he's a WR then he's really slow.

How fast is Colston? Moreover, couldn't someone transform from playing 1 position to another? Hey I hope it works out as TE or a WR paid at the rate a top TE is paid or whatever else keeps him here.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-13-2014, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

I agree' I think the arbitration is just a stunt by the PA, and that JG gets $10 mill and we move forward.
The problem now is that we are only 1.5 mill under the cap. The contract needs to be a Loomis special with a high back end

A short Caponomics lesson:

1. The $7 million franchise tag value is currently a part of the cap. Once the long term deal is signed, that money is released.

2. Long term deals are structured with the signing bonus spread over the life of the contract. So a $15 million signing bonus over 6 years for example would count $2.5 million against the cap each year.

3. The $10 million is the average salary over the life of the contract. Typically because of the signing bonus, the salaries for the first year or two are low. So a $1.5 million salary and a $3 million salary in 2014 and 2015 respectively would not be unreasonable. With the signing bonus that would be a shade less than $20 million in the first 2 years, matching the average.

Couple it all together and JG may count less than $5 million against the cap for 2014. So in fact signing a long term deal will likely open up some cap space.

Edit: I missed the "high back end" when I first read it. My apologies. My lesson just explains what a "high back end" means. All non guaranteed (or more precisely "not likely to be earned") dollars in a contract is monopoly money. The breakpoint is almost always when the first option bonus comes up and/or when the salary jumps. Usually this is close to mid contract. All salary after that is the "high back end".

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-13-2014, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

So tired of hearing about this junk. The guy is a tight end who moves around the formation, no different than half the tight ends in the league anymore. Why are we still talking about this crap? So tiresome.

Take your pick:

- Because it's June.

- Because the clause "majority of snaps played" is in the CBA

- Because of ESPN and NFL Network

- Because the hearing is next week

- Because JG is the highest profile franchised player this offseason

- Because JG is currently not attending OTAs and minicamp. Of course he's currently not under contract (just sayin...)

SFIAH

Danno · 06-13-2014, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

A short Caponomics lesson:

1. The $7 million franchise tag value is currently a part of the cap. Once the long term deal is signed, that money is released.

2. Long term deals are structured with the signing bonus spread over the life of the contract. So a $15 million signing bonus over 6 years for example would count $2.5 million against the cap each year.

3. The $10 million is the average salary over the life of the contract. Typically because of the signing bonus, the salaries for the first year or two are low. So a $1.5 million salary and a $3 million salary in 2014 and 2015 respectively would not be unreasonable. With the signing bonus that would be a shade less than $20 million in the first 2 years, matching the average.

Couple it all together and JG may count less than $5 million against the cap for 2014. So in fact signing a long term deal will likely open up some cap space.

SFIAH

He's likely to get a similar 8-year deal to Gronk. Just add about 2 million to each year and you have roughly what Jimmy is gonna make.

Gronks cap hits...
2.7
2.8
5.4
8.6
8.8
7.3
10.3
11

pumpkindriver · 06-13-2014, 09:14 PM

Even the NFLPA has said this is nothing but a naked grab for cash. I'm so sick of this mess that I'm to the point where if Saint's just said screw it, we don't need the headache and cut him, I wouldn't mind.

Utah_Saint · 06-14-2014, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by pumpkindriver

Even the NFLPA has said this is nothing but a naked grab for cash. I'm so sick of this mess that I'm to the point where if Saint's just said screw it, we don't need the headache and cut him, I wouldn't mind.

No, that was an unnamed source from Triplett's article and it was about the NFLPA, not the NFLPA about Graham.

“The union’s position is a naked cash grab,”

burningmetal · 06-14-2014, 05:32 AM

If I were the Saints I would open up the hearing with this: "Aqib Talib shut him down". I would pause for a couple seconds and then turn to Jimmy's people and say "beat that".

Everyone in the media were praising Talib after that game and saying he's the defensive player of the year. But as I recall, he struggled quite a bit after that. He wasn't even healthy against Jimmy, and still he got shut out. Some "wide receiver" we got there.

06-13-2014, 11:26 AM	#11
Threaded by Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254 Rating: (0 votes - average) So tired of hearing about this junk. The guy is a tight end who moves around the formation, no different than half the tight ends in the league anymore. Why are we still talking about this crap? So tiresome.
Views: 4804

06-13-2014, 01:38 PM	#12
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver He is certainly not a blocking TE. If he's a WR then he's really slow. Danno, Mardigras9 and halloween 65 like this.

06-13-2014, 03:32 PM	#13
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver Very good read!! Excellent really!! Danno likes this.

06-13-2014, 05:10 PM	#14
Michigan_SF 100th Post Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 407	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II He is certainly not a blocking TE. If he's a WR then he's really slow. How fast is Colston? Moreover, couldn't someone transform from playing 1 position to another? Hey I hope it works out as TE or a WR paid at the rate a top TE is paid or whatever else keeps him here.
Michigan_SF 100th Post Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 407

06-13-2014, 05:26 PM	#15
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,774	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver Originally Posted by ScottF I agree' I think the arbitration is just a stunt by the PA, and that JG gets $10 mill and we move forward. The problem now is that we are only 1.5 mill under the cap. The contract needs to be a Loomis special with a high back end A short Caponomics lesson: 1. The $7 million franchise tag value is currently a part of the cap. Once the long term deal is signed, that money is released. 2. Long term deals are structured with the signing bonus spread over the life of the contract. So a $15 million signing bonus over 6 years for example would count $2.5 million against the cap each year. 3. The $10 million is the average salary over the life of the contract. Typically because of the signing bonus, the salaries for the first year or two are low. So a $1.5 million salary and a $3 million salary in 2014 and 2015 respectively would not be unreasonable. With the signing bonus that would be a shade less than $20 million in the first 2 years, matching the average. Couple it all together and JG may count less than $5 million against the cap for 2014. So in fact signing a long term deal will likely open up some cap space. Edit: I missed the "high back end" when I first read it. My apologies. My lesson just explains what a "high back end" means. All non guaranteed (or more precisely "not likely to be earned") dollars in a contract is monopoly money. The breakpoint is almost always when the first option bonus comes up and/or when the salary jumps. Usually this is close to mid contract. All salary after that is the "high back end". SFIAH Danno, ScottF and AsylumGuido like this.
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06-13-2014, 05:37 PM	#16
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,774	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver Originally Posted by Jack Vegas So tired of hearing about this junk. The guy is a tight end who moves around the formation, no different than half the tight ends in the league anymore. Why are we still talking about this crap? So tiresome. Take your pick: - Because it's June. - Because the clause "majority of snaps played" is in the CBA - Because of ESPN and NFL Network - Because the hearing is next week - Because JG is the highest profile franchised player this offseason - Because JG is currently not attending OTAs and minicamp. Of course he's currently not under contract (just sayin...) SFIAH Danno and AsylumGuido like this.

06-13-2014, 05:57 PM	#17
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL A short Caponomics lesson: 1. The $7 million franchise tag value is currently a part of the cap. Once the long term deal is signed, that money is released. 2. Long term deals are structured with the signing bonus spread over the life of the contract. So a $15 million signing bonus over 6 years for example would count $2.5 million against the cap each year. 3. The $10 million is the average salary over the life of the contract. Typically because of the signing bonus, the salaries for the first year or two are low. So a $1.5 million salary and a $3 million salary in 2014 and 2015 respectively would not be unreasonable. With the signing bonus that would be a shade less than $20 million in the first 2 years, matching the average. Couple it all together and JG may count less than $5 million against the cap for 2014. So in fact signing a long term deal will likely open up some cap space. SFIAH He's likely to get a similar 8-year deal to Gronk. Just add about 2 million to each year and you have roughly what Jimmy is gonna make. Gronks cap hits... 2.7 2.8 5.4 8.6 8.8 7.3 10.3 11

06-13-2014, 09:14 PM	#18
pumpkindriver 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Killeen, Tx. Posts: 932	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver Even the NFLPA has said this is nothing but a naked grab for cash. I'm so sick of this mess that I'm to the point where if Saint's just said screw it, we don't need the headache and cut him, I wouldn't mind. RajunCajun23 likes this.

06-14-2014, 01:11 AM	#19
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver Originally Posted by pumpkindriver Even the NFLPA has said this is nothing but a naked grab for cash. I'm so sick of this mess that I'm to the point where if Saint's just said screw it, we don't need the headache and cut him, I wouldn't mind. No, that was an unnamed source from Triplett's article and it was about the NFLPA, not the NFLPA about Graham. “The union’s position is a naked cash grab,” AsylumGuido likes this.

06-14-2014, 05:32 AM	#20
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints' Jimmy Graham a franchise tight end, clearly not a wide receiver If I were the Saints I would open up the hearing with this: "Aqib Talib shut him down". I would pause for a couple seconds and then turn to Jimmy's people and say "beat that". Everyone in the media were praising Talib after that game and saying he's the defensive player of the year. But as I recall, he struggled quite a bit after that. He wasn't even healthy against Jimmy, and still he got shut out. Some "wide receiver" we got there. RajunCajun23 likes this.

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