Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

That's the whole point. Jimmy Graham has never said anything concerning this negotiation. Nothing at all. Zip. Zero. Nada.

I don't know where you are getting that false impression, but Graham has never made any statement, tweet, facebook post or any other mention of any thing to do with any contract terms.

If that is what pisses you off you have wasted a ton of piss.

:D

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

He has never claimed to be a WR. He knows what he is. This is the NFLPA vs. the NFL. That is all. Geez.

:rolleyes:

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I never said anything about demands to begin with. Not contract demands. But you can use a little common sense to figure out that talks aren't going so well if they had to place the franchise tag, and then the subsequent legal battle kinds of boils down to turning down the franchise tag, wouldn't you say? But you want to blame the NFLPA. Fine. You no nothing more than I do about who did what. So why are you on my case if you have no more proof than I?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

He's scored the most touchdowns in the NFL and you're saying he should "do a lot more"?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

That is your opinion. Lawyers speak for their clients. This is foreign to you? You've said the same thing over and over. I don't see your proof. I know what I believe. Let HIM prove me wrong. I hope he does. Your words are meaningless to me.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Common sense. Both the NFLPA and the NFL wants this issue resolved. It was first addressed with Terrell Suggs with DE vs. LB. That matter never made it to arbitration. I would suspect that the NFLPA has pressured Sexton to tread water and the NFL has asked Loomis and the Saints to do the same to get this issue settled once and for all.

We all know the Saints and Graham will make a deal and the tag won't have any affect on him. The exact same thing happened with the Brees tag. We all knew he would get the deal and not play on the tag, but the PA and the league wanted it ironed out first.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Drew could throw touchdowns to any one of his receivers when we get in the redzone. Jimmy is his favorite target. But what happens when the other team puts a corner on him? He does nothing. He has shown zero ability to make the tough plays when we need him to, particularly against the better defenses. You don't see other elite WR's CONSISTENTLY disappearing in those games. And remember the franchise number is based on the top few salaries at the position.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Drew made more than the tag. Drew wasn't claiming another position. That is literally the worst example you could have given.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I don't need proof because I am not making the definitive statements that Graham turned down offers, and made demands, and as you claimed, had "some of the things he's said over the last couple months".

You prove yourself right about those simple claims. All that would take is a web search if they were true.

Simple as that.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

He scored the most touchdowns in the NFL and you call that "consistently disappearing"?

In the regular season, he scored touchdowns in 11 games and in another he went over a hundred yards.

If it corners can easily shut him down why wouldn't every team just put a corner on him and be done with it?

And when you say he has zero ability to play against better defenses, you do realize he scored 3 touchdowns against Carolina and 1 against Seattle right? 4 touchdowns in 4 games is good, against top 3 defenses it's REALLY good.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Drew wasn't claiming anything. The NFLPA questioned the tag placed by the Saints as being the second tag since the Chargers had tagged him as well. The arbitration was not forced by Brees, but was required to determine a franchise tag CBA related issue between the NFLPA and the league, EXACTLY like what is going on here.

We all know, just like the case with Brees, that Graham and the Saints will make the deal. This is all about precedence formation for future use.

It is not Graham. He has been total class through the whole deal. He has said nothing at all, pro or con. Nothing.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Dude, you need to get a life. You continue to take one sentence and throw it completely out of context. You aren't reading anything I'm saying. You're taking what you want out of what I say and arguing against that. I have more than made my point. I haven't based anything on his comments. I'm basing it on exactly what is happening. I have common sense. These things don't happen for the heck of it. The only thing I said about his comments was that he seems a little disrespected in his tone. I don't know where those comments are, but it was posted on here from his "twitter" account. He just seemed like he wasn't too happy with it. I didn't suggest that was the biggest deal, but rather that his tone would make it seem that he's all for whatever the NFLPA is doing. That was the smallest part of my argument.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Consistently against the better defenses I said. And carolina was known to not have a good secondary. He scored one meaningless touchdown against seattle in a 34-7 blowout loss in which he was not heard from again in that game. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's one thing to make a catch at short range in the endzone when the defense is trying to defend all of our receivers, but where was he the rest of the game when we needed to get first downs?

Why don't more teams put a corner on him? Because we have other good players, and not every team has the depth to make that kind of move. The patriots took a gamble and it sure worked for them. maybe all teams SHOULD do it. I would. What about you? I can't speak for other teams. But the evidence is clear.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

You gentleman have a good day. I've said what I have to say.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Oh, now I get the thread title 8-)

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

His tone? How can you judge his tone when he hasn't said anything?

You keep saying you have based your judgement on Graham's comments.

Graham has never made any comments.

How did you hear them?

Until you explain these very vital points, you have no credibility whatsoever.

Case closed.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

And what you have said is total nonsense.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

You got it, brother! :D :rolleyes:

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I doubt if any of our admins have deleted the tweets that you "misremember", but they do not seem to exist. They don't exist on Twitter either. Nor does any reference to them exist on Twitter. Nor have I found any reference to them on Google News. Nor do they exist on any search I have attempted.

If you are basing your implied hatred for this player based on, well, nothing ... there is no way to reason with you.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

It just seems to me like both JG and the saints are letting the arbitration decide what he is actually worth. It's only logical for the saints not to overpay and the JG not to get underpaid. This could go either way.. but if the process is duly played out it just gives clarity to both parties on what number to settle on.
At the end of the day JG and Mickey have been true professionals and have handled the situation with poise and devoid of drama.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

But he allowed people who work for him to make those claims, he remained 100% silent and said nothing when those claims were made, and so did Jimmy.

Do you actually think if Jimmy Graham was opposed to what's happening now, if he didn't want it to happen, do you really think that he would let it happen, or keep his agent, for ONE SECOND?

It's all very nice to stick up for him, to paint him as an angel, but you're implying that he's not a party to all this, which is naive and just plain wrong. Any reasonable fan of the team can see that Jimmy is involved in his current status and situation. That if he didn't want it to be this way, it would never have come to this. To imply that he's somehow an innocent unblemished angel in all this, is more than a little disingenuous.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

football is a business sure but winning is profit. maximize your profit win it all.

accounting is a huge part of the game with out a doubt.

example Jimmy we win and you can bet your bottom dollar if a long term deal is not reached he will get tagged a second year in a row. usually makes no sense but as long as we can pay him top dollar as a TE and not a WR and he puts up the numbers again i do not see the balance sheet changing my opinion.

as far a the fair weather fans the NFL is catering to with all the rule changes to make this an offense sport i really would not waste to much time condemning them. they are what they are and most really do not care about the changes as long as it is fashionable to sit in the stands

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Exactly! That is why this bashing of Graham is completely off-base.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I'm bored of the JG saga. Tell me more about this Josh Hill you all like so much.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Of course he had to agree to allow the NFLPA to try their agenda. Why wouldn't he? But, what I have a problem with are the people vilifying him as a greedy, selfish individual and making false claims that he has made comments about the case and such.

Graham is going to get the same deal, more or less, regardless of how the hearing turns out. It will have very little impact on the overall numbers involved. Graham knows that this is an important question concerning the language within the CBA that needs to be addressed. But, I wonder if he would have agreed to this if he had known the stupidity of some of the fans and much of the press and how his name would be unduly dragged through the mud.

:confused:

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Define you all and like so much.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

No kidding. Some people act like they're dating his momma.

Don't know much about Hill other than he went to Idaho State. He grew up in a small town in Eastern Idaho not far from me. I think he's got the height and the athleticism. Just not sure he's going to get much of a chance to play with JG and Watson on the roster.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Again, who is Gerry V and more importantly, why should I give a rat's ass?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

It's not the fans of the Saints being stupid, it's the money grab of a TE that is trying to get WR money from the Saints. Now I believe as a WR I saw somewhere where he graded 91 out of 112 WR, thats no where near top WR money, where 91st falls on the paybooks might be more of an interesting question than one of the top TE's in the league. Still with me. And now you are 100% correct when you say he let the NFLPA file the grievence on his behalf, but before they could do this it was Jimmy giving the O.K. to do it, without his O.K. they could not file a thing on his behalf. So looking at him as Mr. Innocent is looking at him through rose-colored glasses. I'm glad the Saints saw this grievence through, win or lose and if Jimmy wins WR money and we pay I just wonder how many other players on the team get cut or take a cut to give it to a no blocking, alligator arm , TE posing as a WR.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

You really don't get it, do you?

:rolleyes:

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Whats not to get?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

The fact that it's all simply leverage in a negotiation as opposed the "naked money grab by the selfish greedy bum" that many seem to make it out to be.

The tag is leverage by definition to both sides. It's leverage for the player because it's a massive cap hit to the team immediately. It's leverage for the team because it prevents the player from truly being a free agent and getting the opportunity to market on the open market free of constraints.
Usually the tag is an annoyance that pisses both sides off enough to get them to come to the table and each concede enough to get a deal done.

The wrinkle with the grievance is that it finally sets the true value of the tag. Honestly the NFLPA winning the grievance will put the Saints in a tough spot because they have to have that extra $5 million on the books immediately which IIRC they do not have. That's the leverage necessary to create the concessions to get the deal done quickly. OTOH if the NFL wins, that negates that leverage and forces JG and Sexton to come to the table ready to give up some part of the guaranteed money, years (shorter is better for the player), and front end salary, which is more likely to be paid, in order to get the deal done, get the huge signing bonus, and the security of a longer term contract.

In any case the average salary was always going to be somewhere between the $7 million and the $12 million of the two tags. While I agree that JG doesn't deserve receiver money (because he is not actually a receiver), he does deserve to be paid as the best TE in the NFL. So the final contract should come in above Gronk's contract extension along with increase based on the fact that Gronk's extension was 2 years ago and the rising salary cap.

Finally I chuckle at the "nobility" of only asking for a fair and honest wage. As someone said earlier in this thread, we are in a capitalistic society. You are worth whatever value you can get for your services. Only a fool would turn down a potential increase "because I'm really not worth that much."

SFIAH

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Please, let this thread die!!!

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

The thing that's really hurting Graham is his disappearing act in the playoffs and during important games during the season. You play wort 7MIL. you get paid 7 Mil. It is what it is.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

The question that Jimmy needs to ask himself is, do I just want to make a boatload of money, or make a great deal of money and win a championship and leave a legacy.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Don't even go there. That is the most lame argument ever. You ask every single player in the league and to a person they will answer it "make a boatload of money", as they very well should. The vast majority of NFL players never even have the opportunity to get the big contract. Of the few that do, the vast majority of those will only have a single shot at one. You would have to be an absolute moron to pick legacy over financial future. Especially as a young player. I might be able see it it for a veteran who has already gotten multiple big deals and only has a year or two left. And probably not even then.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Perhaps, if the difference is great. But if the difference isn't all that substantial (10 million/season versus 11 miilion/season) than I'd certainly consider that a valid consideration.

Carl Nicks left for about a 10% increase over what we were offering. For 10% I'd definitely consider the circumstances over raw dollars every time.

Now if it was a 20% to 40% difference... see ya!:p

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Yup. Nicks made the very decision that every player will make and it is impossible for me to blame him.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Not every player. I do believe that I read that Tom Brady in fact took a substantial paycut to stay with the Patriots.

Of course that's a singular example of a player whose legacy is cemented and has nothing else to prove. And of course even with a paycut, it's still a ton of money.

SFIAH

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Yup. That was the one caveat that I gave, the long-time vet who has already had multiple big time deals and wants another chance. That describes Brady to a tee.