Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast

Gerry V checks in with a quick fire podcast.

Got anything to say in response?

Edit: -------------

^^^

It concerns the fan responses to the Graham tag situation.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Who is Gerry V?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

He works for NOLA.com.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Really gonna need a synopsis because I don't give a s*** enough to go clicking links to find out what he has to say.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Asylum wouldn't put a link up for no reason.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I think the "some" he is referring to are the same "surface" fans that don't really know enough about the sport to intelligently comment on things of this nature. The folks that don't bother to really understand, or get to the root of whats actually going on.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

OK, why not. I'll listen....something tells me it's about JG.

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OK, he's kinda right, but he doesn't have to be so sanctimonious about it. There's a middle ground between "Graham is greedy" and "the Saints are cheap" and I'm tired of hearing the extreme viewpoints on both sides.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

He basically reminds fans that football is a business and like all of us, football players seek to make as much money as they can for participating and contributing to that business. Said Graham knows that a football player's longevity is dependent on staying healthy and a football career can end in a moment with a significant injury. He chastises fans for calling Jimmy greedy like they did Brees when he was negotiating his contract.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

But when a player is demanding more than he's worth, its fine with me if he gets hammered for it by the fans.

We fans love the team, and if a player demands more than we fans feel he's worth, then he hurts our team financially.

Hurt my team? Me no likey!:disgust:

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

When will we find out if he's classified as a WR or TE? I don't think he's greedy. I just want this over because if he's classified as a WR there is no guarantee that we have the cap to sign him. I want Jimmy on the team but this is just annoying.

I guess at least he's not holding out like Vernon Davis with 2 years left on his contract because he wants more money. That would be much more of an annoyance.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

And what is he demanding? He has never mentioned anything about the contract. In addition, what we as fans feel a player is worth in not relevant. What is important is what the team feels he is worth. What exactly is the player that has led the NFL in touchdowns over the past two seasons worth?

The cap consequences are trivial based the 2015-16 projected levels. Loomis has also proven to be a wizard at structuring contracts in such a manner to avoid hardships.

So why be angry at Graham, who has personally demanded nothing?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

as of 6:30 EST, there is nothing out there. The hearing started yesterday, and will conclude today. I think we'll know tonight

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Where are those fans? On this board? I don't think so. Leave it alone. I find this "don't hate JG" thing unnecessary and very annoying.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

His cap designation has nothing to do with his cap hit. He is going to get a long term deal between $10M and $11M average per year. Probably a little over a third of that will be guaranteed and most of that will come in the form of a signing bonus. His year one base salary will be minimal and combined with the prorated bonus will likely keep his 2014 cap hit to less than $6M, which is by the way at least $1.3M LESS than he is currently counting against the cap.

There is absolutely no danger of not being able to keep him WELL below the cap regardless of the outcome of the NFLPA vs. NFL franchise tag hearing.

Relax. Take a deep breath and partake of some alcohol.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I read long ago he turned down a 10 million per season offer.

And if he wants 12 million, I think its too much. If the Saints only offer 8, I think thats too little.

No one has the right to tell me how I should feel about the situation.

Its true I wouldn't classify its as greed. I'd classify it as the player is asking for too much and me not wanting to cave in to his demands.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Yes. Some of those very fans are on this board, as well as on several other sites. To many of us this "I hate Graham" and "Graham is greedy" crap is very annoying and totally unnecessary.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I read something like that, too. But, I have never been able to find any real source that it actually happened and, in fact, have not been able to find that claim at all. And believe me, I have searched extensively. And if he actually did, then good on him because he will get more than that even IF the result of the tag hearing sets his designation as a TE.

And, once again, the demands are not his. The tag designation issue is NFLPA driven and any negotiations are agent driven.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

No. We will know nothing until next week. It took a full week for the same arbitrator, Stephen Burbank, to rule on the NFLPA vs. NFL case involving the Drew Brees tag in 2012.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

This guy doesn't get it. But he clearly thinks he's above all understanding.

I won't say Graham is downright greedy, but I will say he's selfish. Is there a difference? Not much, but I guess it doesn't sound as harsh.

Here's the point this guy is missing. When the average person asks for a raise it's only a dollar or maybe a few dollars depending on what kind of job you have. So I don't blame Jimmy for wanting more money, and he obviously earned himself a hefty raise from what he WAS making. And he was going to get just that. How many people get a raise worth millions of dollars? But the problem is he doesn't stop there. He wants to almost double what the team is offering.

If I walk up to my boss and say "hey boss, I want you to double my salary, because I think I deserve it more than anyone else here"... Would you simply say that I'm trying to do what's best for me, or would you call me a douche bag? There's a difference between fairness and exorbitance. You might even say Greed.

I'm a capitalist, and I think it's a great system when properly used. But even in capitalism there are limits to what people can do. You have the right to earn and work your way up, but you can't just arbitrarily decide that you suddenly deserve way more than somebody thinks you're worth. You are free to request it, as he has... But it doesn't look good on you when you're asking price is beyond reason.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Just curious, where did you hear he was demanding twice what the team is offering?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I said he is asking nearly twice what they are offering. As I understand it the franchise tag is somewhere around 7 million, unless I'm off on that. But he wants to be designated as a WR so that he can make 12 million.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Okay, look at the text above that is in bold.

First, show me any offer made by the Saints to Jimmy Graham that he turned down.

Second, show me any demand from Jimmy Graham that is not only what you claim is double what you purport that the Saints offered.

Third, show me any demand concerning an upcoming contract from Jimmy Graham whatsoever.

I am serious. Post proof right here and now of any of these. And I am not talking suppositions from internet bloggers, I am talking actual verifiable quotes or documentation from Jimmy Graham.

You do that and you can call him a "douche bag". You do that and you can declare he has "Greed".

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Where do I start with you? You're the second person in a row who has ignored the ALMOST in that statement. Secondly they OFFERED him the franchise tender, of which he has not signed, because he thinks he's worth WR money, and the numbers don't back his claim.

It doesn't have to be a long term offer to be classified an offer. Is that clear enough for you? And I also didn't call him greedy. But he's in a grey area. If you want to try to read between the lines and tell me what you think I mean, go right ahead. I'm not concerned with your interpretation.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

No. The NFLPA had issue with the NFL league office's designation on the tag as a TE. As a little background, when a team franchises a player that is all they do. They inform the NFL that they have placed the tag. The league determines the designation. The NFLPA saw an opportunity to flex a little muscle and jumped on it. They filed a grievance "on behalf of Jimmy Graham" challenging the designation. This in no way came from Graham.

As far as Graham is concerned personally, he wants the same thing as the Saints, to sign a long term deal. That deal will be no where as low as the TE tag, nor as high as the WR tag. But, that deal will be made.

All of this crap is NFLPA driven. Put the blame where it belongs.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Just my opinion but the 12 million for the WR designation is like a counter offer against the 7 million TE designation.

Makes sense, 7 mill per year is far below market value and 12 is above. In a negotiation, if someone lowballs you, you counter with more than you want. In the end you negotiate down to what you expect.

PFF's Jahnke Value Model put Graham at $12.3 million last year.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...vm-tight-ends/

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

The NFLPA acts on a player's request. They are lawyers. Have you ever had a lawyer defend you without being prompted by your request?

Don't tell me that Jimmy can't accept at any time. Of course he wants a long term deal. And he's asking for what the Saints don't seem willing or able to pay.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I understand what you're saying. I don't disagree with you at all on what the tactic is. But I'm saying that I don't think he's worth WR money, and I doubt the Saints do either. I'm sure they would be willing to pay more than 7 million, but since obviously negotiations aren't working they did what they had to do. Slap the franchise tag and hope he accepts it. Which of course he hasn't.

So it's not so much about the franchise tag as it is about him not being willing to accept a reasonable number on contract. Asylum will say there has been no offer, but you know there have been negotiations. It's ludicrous to think otherwise.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

No, the franchise offer is simply a placeholder in most cases until a deal can be made. Remember Brees?

But, you ignored my three requests. Okay, you did, in sorts, address the first, but even the Saints know he is worth FAR more than a TE tag, which, by the way, they didn't determine. The NFL did.

More important are the second two queries.

We know the second can't be answered. but how about the last?

Third, show me any demand concerning an upcoming contract from Jimmy Graham whatsoever.

Show me this one? Show me any demand at all from Jimmy Graham.

Any.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I did address it. He has made made it clear he wants to be designated WR money. His unwillingness to agree to less is a demand. How did you miss that? You want me to show you an exact quote from him? When do we ever get those? They let their agents do all the talking. Agents don't think for players, they work for them. They offer advice, but ultimately the choices are up to the players. You make it seem as though players have no say in negotiations and that's absurd on your part.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

No. That is where you are terribly mistaken. The NFLPA acts on what they feel is for the good of the membership as a whole. The NFLPA jumped on this opportunity. You are naive if you feel that Graham instigated this affair. It was entirely NFLPA driven. Did they get Graham's buy in? Of course, he really had no choice. Did he want to be recognized as the player who refused to help "the cause"?

And once again, you are making claims that Graham has asked for anything. Search it out. Find anyone other than the NFLPA via the frachise tag amount that have stated anything about any demand.

Any.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

I'm sorry, but you have not. Show me any source that attributes Jimmy Graham as to have made any demands or having turned down any deal. Hell. Show me any quote from his agent Sexton then, that he has turned an offer or made any demands.

Do that. That all. Because it has never happened.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Stop posting for two seconds and read my above reply, wise guy. Do you have any information showing exactly who initiated what? Show me. Don't tell me what you think you understand.

I'm going by common sense, and it is my opinion. If you want to believe another thing, you go right ahead. I don't recall asking you any questions. Neither graham nor the union has a case. The numbers show that his performance is well below average when lined up wide against a corner.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

And you know this how? You think they are going to tell you what they are negotiating? Does not the absence of a deal show a demand is not being met. We have heard for months they were in talks. So what were they talking about? shoes? Get over yourself guy.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Graham knows that. You know that. I know that. His agent knows that. This is all about the NFLPA trying to flex their muscle via the CBA. Hell, Graham calls himself a TE everywhere. That IS what he is.

I will guarantee you that Sexton or Graham have never demanded WR money. This is all NFLPA vs. NFL politics. Don't blame Graham. He is not at fault for anything.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

What did the Saints offer and he rejected that has you so mad?

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

So then he can end it. The union doesn't have power over anyone. They simply represent. He can negotiate his own terms. He knows where the Saints stand, and he knows how much they are paying Drew. So if he wants to be here it's up to him. So even if he didn't initiate this, he can stop it. And you can call this conjecture, but reading some of the things he's said over the last couple months leads me to believe he feels disrespected. So it's hard for me to believe that he has nothing to do with this.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

For crying out loud. Please read my comments if you want the answer. I answered this multiple times.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

So, when did they tell you that Graham turned down an offer? And when did they tell you about demands for WR money around $12 million?

All I am discrediting is that either of the above have happened as many claim. I have no clue what they are negotiating or what offers have or have not been made. But Jimmy Graham is being crucified by many saying he has turned down a supposed offer and has demanded a supposed demand.

It is you and others, not me, that are making the claims. All I am saying is don't believe the hype. It is all media driven and is seldom anywhere near the truth.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

Actually the numbers show that since he's been a starter, he's scored more touchdowns than any wide receiver in the NFL and only 5 wide receivers have earned more yards. Last season he scored the same number of touchdowns wide as he did tight.

Re: Some New Orleans Saints fans should be ashamed of themselves -- Gerry V podcast
 

The numbers how that lined up against a corner he is WAY below even the declining Colston. As much as drew forces it to him, he should do a lot more with his chances if he thinks he's a wide receiver.