Before you go Jim....

shadowdrinker_x · 12-01-2004, 03:29 PM

Jim Haslett taught me a good lesson...

Never put too much stock in the first year of any NFL coaches carreer..

In all honesty...when Haslett reached the playoffs..and beat the Rams and all that...He did so with Ditka's Saints..Most of those players were brought here during the Ditka era...and since that year...the team has gotten worse every year....

So what does that tell me?..Ditka had an eye for talent..but couldn't coach well..

Haslett has no eye for talent..but can coach..if given the right people....

Maybe the two of them together could have faired better...probably not...anyhow..I refuse to let what happened here with haslett happen to me again..like most Saints fans..I was all for keeping Haslett around..I mean..He was Coach of the Year for crying out loud...But ..then he started to get ''his type of players''..and we all know how that's turning out...

If we get a new coach..and i believe we will...I will not be so...eager to back him up...give me something to believe in..some consistency...

Don't get me wrong..I will always back the team..but..I refuse to blindly advocate a coach if he comes out of the gate fast....I want to see what he can do his sophomore year...In hopes he's not another one hit wonder

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 03:42 PM

Wise decision my friend. You know what else? The Saints were 7-4 with Jeff Blake as a starter, and went 3-3 under Brooks including the playoff win. We know what mediocrity has followed since, yet we give Brooks a lions\' share of the credit for the playoff win. Blake basically got them there. We are so starved for a winner any perceived success is way overblown.

spkb25 · 12-01-2004, 07:12 PM

that just isnt true about has winning with ditkas guys. there were at most 23 guys still on the team from the ditka erra. none of which was a qb. i pulled up the roster from both years.
but let me just somehow give you the benefit of the doubt and say that has did win with ditkas guys. well then my friend your saying that has is a better coach then ditka because he won more then ditka did with teh same talent. either way your argument fails big time.
i think has has to go also. but i also think we need a major overhaul. new players and new coaches. some of our guys could stay. but most have to go

spkb25 · 12-01-2004, 07:20 PM

we also went 3-2 under brooks. two games that included the rams at the time. which were a pretty good team. most of blakes wins came against ok to not so ok teams. we also started out 1 -3 under blake. brooks went 3-2 and then won in the playoffs with a great great performance against the rams. so im sorry i just dont see either of your arguments.

that doesnt mean i dont think its time for a change

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 07:32 PM

My argument is Blake was 7-4, Brooks was 3-3. We won the playoff game cause Az Hakim can\'t field a punt, and we had a better defense with Ditka\'s players as was previously said. I\'ll take 7-4 over 3-3.

shadowdrinker_x · 12-01-2004, 08:15 PM

[quote:d366d277d3]that just isnt true about has winning with ditkas guys. there were at most 23 guys still on the team from the ditka erra. none of which was a qb. i pulled up the roster from both years.
but let me just somehow give you the benefit of the doubt and say that has did win with ditkas guys. well then my friend your saying that has is a better coach then ditka because he won more then ditka did with teh same talent. either way your argument fails big time.

SO..even though has won more games..with the same core of players..he\'s not as good?..I don\'t understand your logic...

Saint78 · 12-01-2004, 08:24 PM

When you say Ditka\'s team you can\'t count Willie Roaf or Mark Fields to name a couple they were brought in by Mora & actually Feilds was drafted because Haslett wanted him. Some of Ditka\'s bright moves,just for those with selective amnesia Heath Shuler, Billy Joe 1 & 2, entire draft for Ricky Williams,Danny Wuerffel,Kerry Collins, Cam Cleeland, Troy Davis, cut Eric Allen & Jim Everett(both shoved it up our ass when they played us) Randall \"Thrill\" Hill just to refresh our memories about Ditka. I don\'t really even remember a rb that went over 1000 yards while Ditka was here. Remember his coordinators were Danny Abramawitz and Zaven Yourallien not real sure about the spelling but who cares. I am not saying Haslett should stay but we are in better shape with a nucleus of talent that a new coach can build around. The only good moves Ditka made were Sammy Knight, LaRoy Glover, and maybe Kyle Turley before he wore out his welcome. The real downfall began with the firing of Randy Mueller who came in after Ditka and the Saints had the biggest roster turnover in the league that year. Haslett might have had a few of Ditka\'s players his first year but to say he won with Ditka\'s team is crazy we\'ll just call it Mueller\'s team that won that year.

shadowdrinker_x · 12-01-2004, 08:34 PM

It wasn\'t Mueller\'s team at all..Benson has always been very genorous with letting coaches get the players THEY wanted..I\'m not saying Ditka was a football God..He had a formula that worked for him before..and he Implemented it here..to no avail..and I\'m not saying Jim is a total retard...he just has had trouble eyeing and getting talent..evey year hasslet had had a chance to get his type pf guys in here..and we see players eating dinner while the team is playing...and numerous other things..just a total lack of any sort of respect...And Ditka had at the very least..Respect..you can say he sucks all day..but for every 100 people that says he sucks..their is 1000 that say he\'s a legend..I have to look at the fact that hasslet has gotten worse every year..his best year..was when ditka\'s guys were in here..

whodatsaintsfan26 · 12-01-2004, 11:33 PM

Only 15 of Ditkas players were on the 2000 roster:
Phil Clarke, Fontenot, Glover, Corey Harris, Rob Kelly, Sammy Knight, Keith Mitchell, Chris Naeole, Keith Poole, Daryl Terrell, Kyle Turley, Fred Weary, Willie Whitehead, Ricky Williams, Wally Williams and Jake Delhomme.

There were still 6 holdovers from Mora:
Tom Ackerman, Doug Brien, Mark Feilds, Joe Johnson, Alex Molde, and Willie Roaf.

So to say he won with Ditka\'s team isnt correct.

shadowdrinker_x · 12-02-2004, 01:23 AM

Ok..maybe I jumped the gun a bit..but..you see my overall point?..right?

12-01-2004, 03:29 PM	#1
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Before you go Jim.... Jim Haslett taught me a good lesson... Never put too much stock in the first year of any NFL coaches carreer.. In all honesty...when Haslett reached the playoffs..and beat the Rams and all that...He did so with Ditka's Saints..Most of those players were brought here during the Ditka era...and since that year...the team has gotten worse every year.... So what does that tell me?..Ditka had an eye for talent..but couldn't coach well.. Haslett has no eye for talent..but can coach..if given the right people.... Maybe the two of them together could have faired better...probably not...anyhow..I refuse to let what happened here with haslett happen to me again..like most Saints fans..I was all for keeping Haslett around..I mean..He was Coach of the Year for crying out loud...But ..then he started to get ''his type of players''..and we all know how that's turning out... If we get a new coach..and i believe we will...I will not be so...eager to back him up...give me something to believe in..some consistency... Don't get me wrong..I will always back the team..but..I refuse to blindly advocate a coach if he comes out of the gate fast....I want to see what he can do his sophomore year...In hopes he's not another one hit wonder

12-01-2004, 03:42 PM	#2
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Before you go Jim.... Wise decision my friend. You know what else? The Saints were 7-4 with Jeff Blake as a starter, and went 3-3 under Brooks including the playoff win. We know what mediocrity has followed since, yet we give Brooks a lions\' share of the credit for the playoff win. Blake basically got them there. We are so starved for a winner any perceived success is way overblown.

12-01-2004, 07:12 PM	#3
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Before you go Jim.... that just isnt true about has winning with ditkas guys. there were at most 23 guys still on the team from the ditka erra. none of which was a qb. i pulled up the roster from both years. but let me just somehow give you the benefit of the doubt and say that has did win with ditkas guys. well then my friend your saying that has is a better coach then ditka because he won more then ditka did with teh same talent. either way your argument fails big time. i think has has to go also. but i also think we need a major overhaul. new players and new coaches. some of our guys could stay. but most have to go
	Your team stinks

12-01-2004, 07:20 PM	#4
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Before you go Jim.... we also went 3-2 under brooks. two games that included the rams at the time. which were a pretty good team. most of blakes wins came against ok to not so ok teams. we also started out 1 -3 under blake. brooks went 3-2 and then won in the playoffs with a great great performance against the rams. so im sorry i just dont see either of your arguments. that doesnt mean i dont think its time for a change

12-01-2004, 07:32 PM	#5
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Before you go Jim.... My argument is Blake was 7-4, Brooks was 3-3. We won the playoff game cause Az Hakim can\'t field a punt, and we had a better defense with Ditka\'s players as was previously said. I\'ll take 7-4 over 3-3.

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12-01-2004, 08:15 PM	#6
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Before you go Jim.... [quote:d366d277d3]that just isnt true about has winning with ditkas guys. there were at most 23 guys still on the team from the ditka erra. none of which was a qb. i pulled up the roster from both years. but let me just somehow give you the benefit of the doubt and say that has did win with ditkas guys. well then my friend your saying that has is a better coach then ditka because he won more then ditka did with teh same talent. either way your argument fails big time. SO..even though has won more games..with the same core of players..he\'s not as good?..I don\'t understand your logic...

12-01-2004, 08:24 PM	#7
Saint78 Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 62	Before you go Jim.... When you say Ditka\'s team you can\'t count Willie Roaf or Mark Fields to name a couple they were brought in by Mora & actually Feilds was drafted because Haslett wanted him. Some of Ditka\'s bright moves,just for those with selective amnesia Heath Shuler, Billy Joe 1 & 2, entire draft for Ricky Williams,Danny Wuerffel,Kerry Collins, Cam Cleeland, Troy Davis, cut Eric Allen & Jim Everett(both shoved it up our ass when they played us) Randall \"Thrill\" Hill just to refresh our memories about Ditka. I don\'t really even remember a rb that went over 1000 yards while Ditka was here. Remember his coordinators were Danny Abramawitz and Zaven Yourallien not real sure about the spelling but who cares. I am not saying Haslett should stay but we are in better shape with a nucleus of talent that a new coach can build around. The only good moves Ditka made were Sammy Knight, LaRoy Glover, and maybe Kyle Turley before he wore out his welcome. The real downfall began with the firing of Randy Mueller who came in after Ditka and the Saints had the biggest roster turnover in the league that year. Haslett might have had a few of Ditka\'s players his first year but to say he won with Ditka\'s team is crazy we\'ll just call it Mueller\'s team that won that year.
Saint78 Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 62

12-01-2004, 08:34 PM	#8
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Before you go Jim.... It wasn\'t Mueller\'s team at all..Benson has always been very genorous with letting coaches get the players THEY wanted..I\'m not saying Ditka was a football God..He had a formula that worked for him before..and he Implemented it here..to no avail..and I\'m not saying Jim is a total retard...he just has had trouble eyeing and getting talent..evey year hasslet had had a chance to get his type pf guys in here..and we see players eating dinner while the team is playing...and numerous other things..just a total lack of any sort of respect...And Ditka had at the very least..Respect..you can say he sucks all day..but for every 100 people that says he sucks..their is 1000 that say he\'s a legend..I have to look at the fact that hasslet has gotten worse every year..his best year..was when ditka\'s guys were in here..

12-01-2004, 11:33 PM	#9
whodatsaintsfan26 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 577	Before you go Jim.... Only 15 of Ditkas players were on the 2000 roster: Phil Clarke, Fontenot, Glover, Corey Harris, Rob Kelly, Sammy Knight, Keith Mitchell, Chris Naeole, Keith Poole, Daryl Terrell, Kyle Turley, Fred Weary, Willie Whitehead, Ricky Williams, Wally Williams and Jake Delhomme. There were still 6 holdovers from Mora: Tom Ackerman, Doug Brien, Mark Feilds, Joe Johnson, Alex Molde, and Willie Roaf. So to say he won with Ditka\'s team isnt correct.

12-02-2004, 01:23 AM	#10
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Before you go Jim.... Ok..maybe I jumped the gun a bit..but..you see my overall point?..right?