New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling

Attached Thumbnails · 07-07-2014, 09:37 AM

Although the New Orleans Saints are pleased an NFL arbitrator ruled Jimmy Graham as a tight end for franchise-tagging purposes, they don't like how he reached that conclusion.

Pro Football Talk cited an unnamed source and reported Sunday (July 6) the Saints "disagree with the notion that the question of tight end vs. receiver boils down to whether the player lines up most of the time within four yards of an offensive tackle."

There's more to it than that, the Saints believe.

Pro Football Talk said the Saints put Graham in various positions on the field to help Drew Brees determine if the defense is lined up in man or zone coverage.

And, as our Larry Holder illustrated last month -- several weeks before the arbitrator ruling -- how Graham is defended is also a significant consideration.

Most top-flight receivers are defended by a cornerback on every play, Holder wrote, and that wasn't the case for Graham.

According to Holder, who charted every pass route Graham ran last season, including the postseason, Graham did most of his damage when he was covered by somebody other than a cornerback.

More specifically, of Graham's 90 catches for 1,267 yards and 16 touchdowns last season, including the playoffs, only 20 catches were made against a cornerback, for 258 yards and four touchdowns, Holder reported.

Now with the arbitrator ruling in, it seems using the four-yard mark as a guideline could create an argument for Graham or another tight end to be considered a receiver -- and receive the corresponding $5 million or so pay bump -- if he lines up outside the four-yard range on more than half his snaps in a future season.

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jnormand · 07-07-2014, 11:31 AM

The saga continues....

ScottF · 07-07-2014, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by jnormand

The saga continues....

but only for 8 more days

AsylumGuido · 07-07-2014, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

but only for 8 more days

If that long. I have already read the final chapter and know how it ends.

Rugby Saint II · 07-07-2014, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If that long. I have already read the final chapter and know how it ends.

WOW! Where can I get a copy?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-07-2014, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

but only for 8 more days

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If that long. I have already read the final chapter and know how it ends.

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

WOW! Where can I get a copy?

Let's review a post I put up a bit less than 5 months ago for the answer (with one minor edit or two...):

Originally Posted by SFIAH

I believe that in the end he'll be the highest paid TE in NFL history. But he won't get receiver money.

I still believe exactly that.

And trust this is not going to happen quickly. No point in hoping or praying for it. The Saints will slap Jimmy with the exclusive franchise tag. Jimmy will sign the tender (in June). They'll work it out by training camp.

A few minor edits here. First the tag was non-exclusive. Second I wasn't correct about being able to sign the tender and continuing to negotiate. Finally the signing deadline is July 15th, not June.

Jimmy will get a chance to rest that sore foot this offseason.

I certainly hope that he has gotten that foot straight.

He's not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money.

And not a single peep of an offer from any of the other 31 teams during the entire time. 2 #1 picks is just too pricey.

But it's going to be exactly the same as Brees a couple of years ago. All the fanbase wanted was for the contract to be done quickly. It wasn't.

Honestly nor should it be. This is likely Jimmy's singularly huge contract. It's both his right and frankly obligation to maximize his value. By the same token the Saints have to think about an entire organization. So maximizing the value is crucial.

Both will compromise... eventually. But it's not going to be a quick process. Because if it were quick, then someone is getting screwed in the deal. The eventual deal needs to balance the needs of the player with the needs of the team.

All anyone needs to do is track 3 dates:

1) Franchise tender deadline (early March)
2) Tender signing deadline (mid July)
3) Training camp (late July)

You'll see some movement around those three dates, and nothing otherwise.

And this is exactly how it has played out with the addition of the hearing and the ruling which simply clarified the franchise tag value.

So pack a lunch, cause it's going to be a long haul.

Ya think?

SFIAH

AsylumGuido · 07-07-2014, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Let's review a post I put up a bit less than 5 months ago for the answer (with one minor edit or two...):

I still believe exactly that.

A few minor edits here. First the tag was non-exclusive. Second I wasn't correct about being able to sign the tender and continuing to negotiate. Finally the signing deadline is July 15th, not June.

I certainly hope that he has gotten that foot straight.

And not a single peep of an offer from any of the other 31 teams during the entire time. 2 #1 picks is just too pricey.

And this is exactly how it has played out with the addition of the hearing and the ruling which simply clarified the franchise tag value.

Ya think?

SFIAH

You just spoiled the ending. But, then again, there is almost as much uncertainty as the final scene of a typical Gilligan's Isle episode.

hagan714 · 07-08-2014, 12:31 PM

they are slowly setting it up. we will have a new position very soon

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-08-2014, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You just spoiled the ending. But, then again, there is almost as much uncertainty as the final scene of a typical Gilligan's Isle episode.

You mean where the crew is just about to get off the island... and then they don't? I know what you mean.

I said in February that anyone annoyed with this process could simply ignore everything until the week of July 7th. Looks like I'm right on the mark...

SFIAH

07-07-2014, 11:31 AM	#2
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,687	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling The saga continues....

07-07-2014, 02:38 PM	#3
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling Originally Posted by jnormand The saga continues.... but only for 8 more days

07-07-2014, 02:39 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling Originally Posted by ScottF but only for 8 more days If that long. I have already read the final chapter and know how it ends.

07-07-2014, 05:20 PM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If that long. I have already read the final chapter and know how it ends. WOW! Where can I get a copy?

07-07-2014, 06:05 PM	#6
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling Originally Posted by ScottF but only for 8 more days Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If that long. I have already read the final chapter and know how it ends. Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II WOW! Where can I get a copy? Let's review a post I put up a bit less than 5 months ago for the answer (with one minor edit or two...): Originally Posted by SFIAH I believe that in the end he'll be the highest paid TE in NFL history. But he won't get receiver money. I still believe exactly that. And trust this is not going to happen quickly. No point in hoping or praying for it. The Saints will slap Jimmy with the exclusive franchise tag. Jimmy will sign the tender (in June). They'll work it out by training camp. A few minor edits here. First the tag was non-exclusive. Second I wasn't correct about being able to sign the tender and continuing to negotiate. Finally the signing deadline is July 15th, not June. Jimmy will get a chance to rest that sore foot this offseason. I certainly hope that he has gotten that foot straight. He's not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money. And not a single peep of an offer from any of the other 31 teams during the entire time. 2 #1 picks is just too pricey. But it's going to be exactly the same as Brees a couple of years ago. All the fanbase wanted was for the contract to be done quickly. It wasn't. Honestly nor should it be. This is likely Jimmy's singularly huge contract. It's both his right and frankly obligation to maximize his value. By the same token the Saints have to think about an entire organization. So maximizing the value is crucial. Both will compromise... eventually. But it's not going to be a quick process. Because if it were quick, then someone is getting screwed in the deal. The eventual deal needs to balance the needs of the player with the needs of the team. All anyone needs to do is track 3 dates: 1) Franchise tender deadline (early March) 2) Tender signing deadline (mid July) 3) Training camp (late July) You'll see some movement around those three dates, and nothing otherwise. And this is exactly how it has played out with the addition of the hearing and the ruling which simply clarified the franchise tag value. So pack a lunch, cause it's going to be a long haul. Ya think? SFIAH AsylumGuido and AliJee like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

07-07-2014, 09:37 AM	#1
Threaded by SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,201 Blog Entries: 29 Rating: (0 votes - average) Although the New Orleans Saints are pleased an NFL arbitrator ruled Jimmy Graham as a tight end for franchise-tagging purposes, they don't like how he reached that conclusion. Pro Football Talk cited an unnamed source and reported Sunday (July 6) the Saints "disagree with the notion that the question of tight end vs. receiver boils down to whether the player lines up most of the time within four yards of an offensive tackle." There's more to it than that, the Saints believe. Pro Football Talk said the Saints put Graham in various positions on the field to help Drew Brees determine if the defense is lined up in man or zone coverage. And, as our Larry Holder illustrated last month -- several weeks before the arbitrator ruling -- how Graham is defended is also a significant consideration. Most top-flight receivers are defended by a cornerback on every play, Holder wrote, and that wasn't the case for Graham. According to Holder, who charted every pass route Graham ran last season, including the postseason, Graham did most of his damage when he was covered by somebody other than a cornerback. More specifically, of Graham's 90 catches for 1,267 yards and 16 touchdowns last season, including the playoffs, only 20 catches were made against a cornerback, for 258 yards and four touchdowns, Holder reported. Now with the arbitrator ruling in, it seems using the four-yard mark as a guideline could create an argument for Graham or another tight end to be considered a receiver -- and receive the corresponding $5 million or so pay bump -- if he lines up outside the four-yard range on more than half his snaps in a future season. read more Attached Thumbnails
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07-07-2014, 06:42 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Let's review a post I put up a bit less than 5 months ago for the answer (with one minor edit or two...): I still believe exactly that. A few minor edits here. First the tag was non-exclusive. Second I wasn't correct about being able to sign the tender and continuing to negotiate. Finally the signing deadline is July 15th, not June. I certainly hope that he has gotten that foot straight. And not a single peep of an offer from any of the other 31 teams during the entire time. 2 #1 picks is just too pricey. And this is exactly how it has played out with the addition of the hearing and the ruling which simply clarified the franchise tag value. Ya think? SFIAH You just spoiled the ending. But, then again, there is almost as much uncertainty as the final scene of a typical Gilligan's Isle episode. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.

07-08-2014, 12:31 PM	#8
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling they are slowly setting it up. we will have a new position very soon

07-08-2014, 03:26 PM	#9
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Re: New Orleans Saints disagree with reason behind Jimmy Graham ruling Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You just spoiled the ending. But, then again, there is almost as much uncertainty as the final scene of a typical Gilligan's Isle episode. You mean where the crew is just about to get off the island... and then they don't? I know what you mean. I said in February that anyone annoyed with this process could simply ignore everything until the week of July 7th. Looks like I'm right on the mark... SFIAH

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