Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Was it because of coaching, players or just not good enough?

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Offense was always lacking with the defenses we had

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Coaching. Based purely on watching the team, I would say our offense didn't make adjustments during the game.

edit: You could also add because we were in the same division as the Joe Montana led 49ers.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

We were loaded with great prospects that never worked out. Also, Benson ran the Saints with a used car mentality.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

I say two reasons. Brees (an elite QB) and Payton (an offensive genius) .... and I'm not sure that I can say which is most important. If you look at the 2012 season we missed the playoffs without Payton but Brees still put up crazy numbers. Even though we were weak and getting old on D much of the 2012 fiasco can be put on Spag.

What we have not seen, and I hope not to for some time, is Payton w/out Brees behind center.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

We were definitely limited by our QB's.

Don't get me wrong we had serviceable QB's but none that could get the job done.

I think back to the 49 and Saints games and we'd hold them in check the only real team giving them a run for the money was us. When you hold a team to a 6-3 game and only lose it by their QB just making a couple of more plays than our QB.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

QB, plain and simple. Hebert was fine for the regular season but choked like a dog in playoff games. We always had 2-3 good RB's, several good WR's and a nice offensive line. We had a great defense and the best kicker in the NFL. And Mora was a darn good coach. Hebert just wasn't a big-game player and it hurt us continually in the postseason.

I also think there was a lot of pressure to be the first Saints team to get that far and that had an effect. But what was it, 1992, we were up big on the Eagles, everything was going great, and Hebert comes out the 2nd half and throws 3 picks.

OC Carl Smith was also bad, but 3 yards and a cloud of dust was kind of the norm those days. We played old-school smashmouth football like most teams did at the time.

People will also say we were just unlucky to be in the same division as the 49ers, but that doesn't explain total choke jobs against the Bears and Vikings in games where we just got throttled. IMO, it just all comes back to the fact that we were not good enough at the QB position. Other teams had Marino, Kelly, Moon, Cunningham, Elway, etc. We had Bobby Hebert. Big drop-off there.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

We had no real offense threat except for Morten. Even if all we had was a star RB like AP we would have gone deep in the playoffs. Seattle can throw, but they showed strong D and running is still a proven way to win.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

IMO, it was a combination of players and coaching.

Hebert was the weak link on the offense, and Mora was just too defensive-minded.

As good a coach as Mora was, if he had allowed the offense off the leash a little bit the Saints would have been a lot better.

I remember a quote that a player, possibly on the whiners, said about their mentality during that era, 'If we got up 21 points on a team, we played like we were 21 points behind.'

YBP, Years Before Payton, the Saints played not to lose, and didn't play to win.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Choke job? Are you comparing Hebert to Romo? I wonder if Hebert feels guilty for being such a choker? :lolup:

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Imagen if we had Brees and Payton during those years, that would be an instant dynasty

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

I'm quite happy how our current offense and defense are merging together...

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

I seem to remeber the play book being Ruben Mayes up the middle 3 times then punting... Hoping we'd get in field goal range.
Our defense was great!
However it's hard to have any success with San Fran willing the division as much as they did. Honestly those guys were just that great.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

I also want to comment of the Dynasty thing...
Lets see how the next few years pan out. I see us winning another 2

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

You know, that actually is a pretty good comparison. They both have good arms, both are tough guys, both prone to mistakes at the worst times, both total playoff failures.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Wade Wilson, Bobby Hebert, John Forcade, Steve Walsh, Dave Wilson, Richard Todd

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Richard Todd...
Jeez my dad didn't like him. I remember his saying the guy threw lame ducks....
Rest his soul.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

You left out Jim Everett and Todd was before Mora. He followed Kenny Stabler during the Bum and Wade Phillips years.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Nobody mentioned Mike Buck or Tim Rosenbach, son I am disappoint.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Okay, Buck did start one game under Mora, but Timm Rosenbach played for the Cardinals.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

all Mora, or whoever our OC was.
Our offense then was hope to get to the 35, and then run 3 consecutive conservative plays
Maybe if Morten wasn't so good we would've opened up the playbook a little
I remember a lot of games with scores of 16's, 23's, and 19's.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

He played for the Saints too. I know that for a fact. It may have only been the preseason though.

Also nobody mentioned Doug Nussmeier, who I actually liked.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

I think we relied too much on Morten and the D. Too conservative.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Two words: Carl Smith. Biggest dumba$$ in Saints history

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

This post is bringing back frustrating memories for sure. Watching the defense was a thing of beauty, but for the most part watching the offense was miserable. Who really knows what the problem was, did Mora and Smith hold back Hebert or was Hebert really that bad? And yes, Hebert did choke big time in that Eagles playoff game in 92. Getting aggravated just thinking about it all...

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

You know what's funny? Search "Bobby Hebert Highlights" in YouTube. You won't find any.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

I really think we were too quick to send Morton out for a FG. Yes, he was "money", but I think it hurt our chances to win.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Someone call Bobby at WWL and inform him... :D

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Offensively we really didn't have even good WR's until we got Joe Horn. We had some really great RB's in Hilliard and Mayes and Gijan, but the reality was that injuries just killed us. We would get to the playoffs and by then we were decimated with injuries on defense which was our claim to fame and with such a mediocre offense we couldn't get past teams that would score on our depleated defense.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Eric Martin may not have been the best WR in the NFL then, but he was like Marques Colston.

Don't forget about Quinn Early

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Jim Finks!
The front office was taken from the same group who built the '84 Bears.
Finks left the Bears in 1982 before that monster gelled, but it was his handiwork that brought those players together. Finks resigned when the organization didn't consult him when they hired Ditka, someone Finks didn't like so much.

The Bears were a limp wrist through the 70's until Finks went in and acquired players. Then they ran playoffs for years.

His style of team was old school - build a nasty defense and spend your money on monster offensive linemen, and the rest will take care of itself.

Although he was the architect of teams, Finks lacked "pizzazz" or magic needed to make a Superbowl winner. Someone like Ditka was able to spark a fire to build one of the more memorable teams in NFL history using Finks talent pool he left with the Bears (yes it takes an insane idiot like Coach Ditka to create an earth shattering miracle). It also took Ditka a short few years to mostly dismantle that team, so it was practically a one hit wonder.

Finks was no frills, and so was the Saints offense just like Finks - old school, unimaginative, down and distance, playoff bound but never Superbowl material.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Eric Martin and Quinn Early were both good, starting-quality receivers. So was Lonzell Hill for a few years. Floyd Turner and Brett Perriman were good #3 types. In the later years of Mora when Everett was QB, Michael Haynes and Torrance Small were putting up good numbers too. We always had a revolving door of WR's but they were always productive for the most part.

If you could send Brees back in time to those teams I bet the offense wouldn't look much different, with Martin in the Colston role, Early as Lance Moore and Turner as the Henderson/Meachem field-stretcher.

We had all the parts on offense then, just not a QB. Now when Ditka took over, that was when we were devoid of talent on offense.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Carl Smith

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

1-Mora was a bit conservative at times.
2-Thus relying on Anderson for the 3pts over and over and so on.
3-You really did not have a QB in Bobby Herbert and backup, Fourcade. LA boys which were most important for fans then to have rather a really strong QB.
4-O-line was ok.
5-YES, D-line was tops and that and Anderson put up points by D-line shutting down the other team and Anderson 3pts again, aain and so on.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

I remember one game at the start of the 4th 21-21.
Other team 3 TD's Saint's 7 field goals.

I remember the announcer mentioning how the Saints got there the other way.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

Carl smith, carl smith, carl smith and a few prevent defenses when u have one of the defenses ever

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Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

...because Mora didn't like Fourcade and gave up on him too early...because Bobby took his ball and stayed home when Johnny was named starter...and when they gave up on John F they went out and mortgaged the farm for a noodle arm QB named Steve Walsh.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

coaching end of story

Mora inherited quarterback Bobby Hebert so that does not hold water
Plenty of solid talent in the backfield. Wr were pretty solid. OL was well above average also

he gutted the NFL best defensive coaching staff to keep the OC Carl Smith.

It was Mora love for Carl Smith that killed the team. I forgot his name for a reason but it has resurfaced here. Mora never did the right thing with his offensive coaching staff. Replace Carl Smith. We always were waiting for those two come out of the closet. that would be the reason we could think of for this love affair to go on

I never understood his loyalty to the OC Carl Smith at all.

Mora has to thank Bum for building the core of the team that made him a winner.

blame rest with Mora.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

This is something I could never figure out given that the Ravens won purely off defense and no offense and where built in similar fashion to the Mora Saints teams back then.

But it could of been when some teams win the SB these days, theirs a lack of competition to. Which I believe we are nearing an era right now where any team can win it as Brees, Brady, and Manning get older, hence why teams like Baltimore and Seattle have both won.

Re: Why didn't the Saints have more success during the Mora years?
 

The Saints were 12-3 one year 92 I think. Unfortunately Moras teams folded in the playoffs. Why didn't Moras teams beat Dallas San Fransisco or Philadelphia in pre salary cap days? Duh? That'd have been like the As winning the World Series. The 49ers had Montana Rice Craig Rathman Taylor Lott Sanders. The Saints had Hilliard Martin Hebert Hill Brenner and of course the Done Patrol. But compared to the 49ers Hall of Fame riddled roster. And don't get me started on the Cowboys in the 90s with Aikman Smith Irving and the best O-line in history.