Right on the Money!!!!!

JKool · 12-08-2004, 05:22 PM

Nice post Gator.

Agreed, Haz is among our top problems. I think most seem to think that; this is nice backup though, in case they forgot.

PS -

D_it_up · 12-09-2004, 10:04 AM

Picture it. I\'m sitting at my favorite local bar the other night, sipping on a cold beer, and watching the Syracuse/Oklahoma State basketball game. A gentleman, wearing a Saints visor, walks into the bar and has a seat a few stools down from me. Always being one to strike up a conversation about the Saints, I say to him \"So I guess you\'re a fellow heartbroken fan, too?\", and pointed to his visor. He nods and laughs. We begin to talk a bit about the Saints and he makes a comment that should\'ve made me throw my beer bottle at him in a drunken rage, yet I obstained. He says, \"I really will be upset if they fire Haslett. He\'s a good guy and is taking too much blame for the shape of the team right now\".

We find yours truly now sitting in front of his PC, still hungover from two nights ago, and grinding his teeth over that comment. If Haslett isn\'t the majority of the blame, then who in the hell is? As I snap back into reality, I remember that YES.....IT IS MOSTLY HIS FAULT. He\'s the man who brings in the players he\'s wanted since Mueller left. He\'s the one with no trust from his players. He\'s the one who has kept that bum Venturi on his coaching staff. He\'s the one who keeps running players out of town.

My reply to this guy was simply, \"It\'s time for a change. Haslett.....good man, good coordinator, BAD HEAD COACH!\" So we did some Jager shots, threw some darts, then went to listen to the band.

The End.

RDOX · 12-09-2004, 10:43 AM

Picture it. I\'m sitting at my favorite local bar the other night, sipping on a cold beer, and watching the Syracuse/Oklahoma State basketball game. A gentleman, wearing a Saints visor, walks into the bar and has a seat a few stools down from me. Always being one to strike up a conversation about the Saints, I say to him \"So I guess you\'re a fellow heartbroken fan, too?\", and pointed to his visor. He nods and laughs. We begin to talk a bit about the Saints and he makes a comment that should\'ve made me throw my beer bottle at him in a drunken rage, yet I obstained. He says, \"I really will be upset if they fire Haslett. He\'s a good guy and is taking too much blame for the shape of the team right now\".

We find yours truly now sitting in front of his PC, still hungover from two nights ago, and grinding his teeth over that comment. If Haslett isn\'t the majority of the blame, then who in the hell is? As I snap back into reality, I remember that YES.....IT IS MOSTLY HIS FAULT. He\'s the man who brings in the players he\'s wanted since Mueller left. He\'s the one with no trust from his players. He\'s the one who has kept that bum Venturi on his coaching staff. He\'s the one who keeps running players out of town.

My reply to this guy was simply, \"It\'s time for a change. Haslett.....good man, good coordinator, BAD HEAD COACH!\" So we did some Jager shots, threw some darts, then went to listen to the band.

The End.

I tend to disagree here. I think that Hazlett is part of the problem, but is getting way, way too much criticism for his part in this debacle. IMO, you have to look higher than Jim Hazlett. To whit:

1. Venturi was a holdover from the Mora/Ditka era and I\'d be willing to bet will be held over if and/or when Hazlett departs. (Benson)

2. McCarthy was hired as O-Coordinator prior to Hazlett and Big Mule coming to New Orleans. (Benson)

3. Arnold FieldCow is hired as President of Civic Relations/Business (Some such title) to boost the \"image of the team.\" (Benson)

4. Big Mule is fired because he crossed FieldCow in a power struggle. (Benson)

5. Mickey (I don\'t really understand football, but I do know cap room) LoomBoom takes Big Mule\'s place, because he gets along with, and is scared of FieldCow. ( Benson)

6. Baby Mule is made director of player personnel, because LoomBoom can \"control\" the cap room with Baby Mule under his wing. (LoomBoom)

7. LoomBoom sells Hazlett, the team, and the coaching staff out in an interview during the middle of the season, thereby assuring his tenure as GM is safe and distancing himself from Hazlett and the team. (LoomBoom)

8. Hazlett sticks by Fumbles, McCarthy, Venturi because not to do so would create a situation similar to what Oakland faced last year. (Hazlett)

So, out of the 8 things that have transpired, since Ditka\'s era, how many can be laid at Hazlett\'s feet. One or two, but not all. What is wrong with this organization is that it is being run like an Automobile Dealership and not a Professional Football Team. FieldCow, and only FieldCow has Benson\'s ear, because Benson trusts and understands FieldCow\'s language, since FieldCow sold cars for Benson. Benson has never had a good grip on how the organization ran, and lost any hope of fielding a winner when Jim Finks died. Since then, what you have seen is a rudderless ship that ebbs and flows with whatever happens next.

Big Mule\'s mistake was to believe that the New Orleans Saints should be run like the Seattle Seahawks, and not the Benson Autoplex.

saintswhodi · 12-09-2004, 11:21 AM

RDOX, it is Haslett\'s fault. Let\'s look at it. No matter where the coordinators came from, Haslett has kept them. He could have said I need better coordinators or I walk, but he didn\'t. He has stood by them and even defended Venturi this season.

I read an article also that said since Mueller was fired, Hasleet has had the majority of the say in personnel decisions. Who stays, who goes, who we draft. I also read it was unfair cause it is not what he was hired for, but nevertheless it was his responsibilty. He has made this team over year after year, and the results have been worse and worse. If nothing else he should be fired for the Sullivan draft. If Stinchcomb and Henderson don\'t see the field this year, it may go down as the worst draft ever for the Saints. Once again, he is the head coach, he says I need player A or B, to make my team better. I have a hard time believing it\'s not his decision.

We all know Loomis is not a personnel man, but he is great with the cap. I think him seperating himself from Jim is him saying, \"this is Jim\'s team, he decided on coaches and players, and I just handle money. He is responsible.\" And I believe him. No head coach in the league is gonna coach a team where he doesn\'t get to choose his coordinators and his players. It just ain\'t gonna happen.

Now we have players like Sully who eat in the press box before a game cause he sucks too much to be on the active roster, and Shaun Smith gets the boot while Sullivan doesn\'t get a slap on the wrist. AB has a problem with fans calling for Delhomme, let him walk. AB has a problem with fans calling for J.T., we trade him cause Haslett has his head stuck up AB\'s arse. I place a minimum of 85% of the blame for the CURRENT state of the team on Haslett. I place 100% of the blame of the organization not getting better over the last 20 years on Tom Benson.

RDOX · 12-09-2004, 11:36 AM

SaintsWhoDi!

That\'s reasonable, your post, that is. What I\'m alluding to is that Hazlett may not have the power that we are giving him. He, like Brooks, is a lightning rod for the whole mess.

I tend to look at the Front Office as where all things begin. Case in point is Atlanta. Now, we\'ll see what happens throughout the rest of this season, and more importantly, next season with the Birds, but I\'d be willing to bet that the Falcons are not being run like Arthur Blank ran Home Depot.

My point with my last post was that there are many things going on in the upper rooms that point to Hazlett, but MAY be or have been beyond his control. He may not have been able to replace McCarthy. Same with Venturi. I really was trying to say in my last post that the Franchise has a sick, almost schizophrenic, way of doing things, and Hazlett is a part, but not all of the craziness.

saintswhodi · 12-09-2004, 12:02 PM

I don\'t disagree with you RDOX, that\'s why I said Benson has been the long term problem. But in the last 4 years, it has been Haslett.

You hit the nail on the head that we see what good ownership can do, as Atlanta was a great example. Great point. I agree with that also. That\'s why Benson gets the longterm award as goat.

But whether fair or not, personnel decisions have been Haslett\'s. Who starts and who sits, Haslett. Venturi not as a lb coach but as a d. coordinator, Haslett. Players not getting fined or benched for bad play and embarrassing the team, Haslett. Not making sure gameplans are up to par each week, Haslett. IF HE IS making sure not noticing glaring deficiences in the gameplan, Haslett. Letting McCarthy misuse players week in and week out, Haslett. It was Benson\'s fault for not firing him last year and it got worse.

RDOX · 12-09-2004, 12:16 PM

I don\'t disagree with you RDOX, that\'s why I said Benson has been the long term problem. But in the last 4 years, it has been Haslett.

You hit the nail on the head that we see what good ownership can do, as Atlanta was a great example. Great point. I agree with that also. That\'s why Benson gets the longterm award as goat.

But whether fair or not, personnel decisions have been Haslett\'s. Who starts and who sits, Haslett. Venturi not as a lb coach but as a d. coordinator, Haslett. Players not getting fined or benched for bad play and embarrassing the team, Haslett. Not making sure gameplans are up to par each week, Haslett. IF HE IS making sure not noticing glaring deficiences in the gameplan, Haslett. Letting McCarthy misuse players week in and week out, Haslett. It was Benson\'s fault for not firing him last year and it got worse.

In that you are right. Unfortunately, Hazlett\'s loyalty to this group is misplaced. I used to think that McCarthy was an offensive genious, now I just think that he\'s offensive. Also, this can be traced back to the fact that Hazlett was so afraid of a QB controversy that he gave the job to Brooks rather than allow Blake and Brooks to \"fight it out.\" Unfortunately for Brooks, Blake could have and should have been a second coach, with Delhomme as #3. If you look at Rodney Peete, that\'s what you have in Carolina.

But, then again, that\'s Carolina. We sit with the short end of the string again.

Tobias-Reiper · 12-09-2004, 01:36 PM

Hold on here...

Mccarthy was NOT hired by Benson..
Venturi was a holdover, yes, but as a DB coach.. I SERIOUSLY doubt he was imposed upon Haslett as the DC when Zook left... Haslett must have at the very least apporved of the move...
Loomis does NOT pick players... scouts scout them, report to the Dir or personnel, who reports findings to the coach, who then present findings to GM so GM can go and get that guy... Don\'t go pinning Sullivan, Cie Grant, Stichcomb, et al on

saintswhodi · 12-09-2004, 01:42 PM

RDOX, agreed all the way around.

Tobias, I think the point of what RDOX is saying if the front office is not blameless in its moves when it comes to the team. Who was hired by who is semantics at this point. I think he is just truly trying to say the front office is not blameless in all of this.

Danno · 12-09-2004, 01:42 PM

Loomis does NOT pick players... scouts scout them, report to the Dir or personnel, who reports findings to the coach, who then present findings to GM so GM can go and get that guy... Don\'t go pinning Sullivan, Cie Grant, Stichcomb, et al on

Director of Player Personnel? The King Scout?
Rick Meuller.
You do have a point.

Of course the GM is the guy who hires/fires the DPP.

12-08-2004, 05:22 PM	#1
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Right on the Money!!!!! Nice post Gator. Agreed, Haz is among our top problems. I think most seem to think that; this is nice backup though, in case they forgot. PS -

12-09-2004, 10:04 AM	#2
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Right on the Money!!!!! Picture it. I\'m sitting at my favorite local bar the other night, sipping on a cold beer, and watching the Syracuse/Oklahoma State basketball game. A gentleman, wearing a Saints visor, walks into the bar and has a seat a few stools down from me. Always being one to strike up a conversation about the Saints, I say to him \"So I guess you\'re a fellow heartbroken fan, too?\", and pointed to his visor. He nods and laughs. We begin to talk a bit about the Saints and he makes a comment that should\'ve made me throw my beer bottle at him in a drunken rage, yet I obstained. He says, \"I really will be upset if they fire Haslett. He\'s a good guy and is taking too much blame for the shape of the team right now\". We find yours truly now sitting in front of his PC, still hungover from two nights ago, and grinding his teeth over that comment. If Haslett isn\'t the majority of the blame, then who in the hell is? As I snap back into reality, I remember that YES.....IT IS MOSTLY HIS FAULT. He\'s the man who brings in the players he\'s wanted since Mueller left. He\'s the one with no trust from his players. He\'s the one who has kept that bum Venturi on his coaching staff. He\'s the one who keeps running players out of town. My reply to this guy was simply, \"It\'s time for a change. Haslett.....good man, good coordinator, BAD HEAD COACH!\" So we did some Jager shots, threw some darts, then went to listen to the band. The End.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

12-09-2004, 10:43 AM	#3
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Right on the Money!!!!! Picture it. I\'m sitting at my favorite local bar the other night, sipping on a cold beer, and watching the Syracuse/Oklahoma State basketball game. A gentleman, wearing a Saints visor, walks into the bar and has a seat a few stools down from me. Always being one to strike up a conversation about the Saints, I say to him \"So I guess you\'re a fellow heartbroken fan, too?\", and pointed to his visor. He nods and laughs. We begin to talk a bit about the Saints and he makes a comment that should\'ve made me throw my beer bottle at him in a drunken rage, yet I obstained. He says, \"I really will be upset if they fire Haslett. He\'s a good guy and is taking too much blame for the shape of the team right now\". We find yours truly now sitting in front of his PC, still hungover from two nights ago, and grinding his teeth over that comment. If Haslett isn\'t the majority of the blame, then who in the hell is? As I snap back into reality, I remember that YES.....IT IS MOSTLY HIS FAULT. He\'s the man who brings in the players he\'s wanted since Mueller left. He\'s the one with no trust from his players. He\'s the one who has kept that bum Venturi on his coaching staff. He\'s the one who keeps running players out of town. My reply to this guy was simply, \"It\'s time for a change. Haslett.....good man, good coordinator, BAD HEAD COACH!\" So we did some Jager shots, threw some darts, then went to listen to the band. The End. I tend to disagree here. I think that Hazlett is part of the problem, but is getting way, way too much criticism for his part in this debacle. IMO, you have to look higher than Jim Hazlett. To whit: 1. Venturi was a holdover from the Mora/Ditka era and I\'d be willing to bet will be held over if and/or when Hazlett departs. (Benson) 2. McCarthy was hired as O-Coordinator prior to Hazlett and Big Mule coming to New Orleans. (Benson) 3. Arnold FieldCow is hired as President of Civic Relations/Business (Some such title) to boost the \"image of the team.\" (Benson) 4. Big Mule is fired because he crossed FieldCow in a power struggle. (Benson) 5. Mickey (I don\'t really understand football, but I do know cap room) LoomBoom takes Big Mule\'s place, because he gets along with, and is scared of FieldCow. ( Benson) 6. Baby Mule is made director of player personnel, because LoomBoom can \"control\" the cap room with Baby Mule under his wing. (LoomBoom) 7. LoomBoom sells Hazlett, the team, and the coaching staff out in an interview during the middle of the season, thereby assuring his tenure as GM is safe and distancing himself from Hazlett and the team. (LoomBoom) 8. Hazlett sticks by Fumbles, McCarthy, Venturi because not to do so would create a situation similar to what Oakland faced last year. (Hazlett) So, out of the 8 things that have transpired, since Ditka\'s era, how many can be laid at Hazlett\'s feet. One or two, but not all. What is wrong with this organization is that it is being run like an Automobile Dealership and not a Professional Football Team. FieldCow, and only FieldCow has Benson\'s ear, because Benson trusts and understands FieldCow\'s language, since FieldCow sold cars for Benson. Benson has never had a good grip on how the organization ran, and lost any hope of fielding a winner when Jim Finks died. Since then, what you have seen is a rudderless ship that ebbs and flows with whatever happens next. Big Mule\'s mistake was to believe that the New Orleans Saints should be run like the Seattle Seahawks, and not the Benson Autoplex.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

12-09-2004, 11:21 AM	#4
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Right on the Money!!!!! RDOX, it is Haslett\'s fault. Let\'s look at it. No matter where the coordinators came from, Haslett has kept them. He could have said I need better coordinators or I walk, but he didn\'t. He has stood by them and even defended Venturi this season. I read an article also that said since Mueller was fired, Hasleet has had the majority of the say in personnel decisions. Who stays, who goes, who we draft. I also read it was unfair cause it is not what he was hired for, but nevertheless it was his responsibilty. He has made this team over year after year, and the results have been worse and worse. If nothing else he should be fired for the Sullivan draft. If Stinchcomb and Henderson don\'t see the field this year, it may go down as the worst draft ever for the Saints. Once again, he is the head coach, he says I need player A or B, to make my team better. I have a hard time believing it\'s not his decision. We all know Loomis is not a personnel man, but he is great with the cap. I think him seperating himself from Jim is him saying, \"this is Jim\'s team, he decided on coaches and players, and I just handle money. He is responsible.\" And I believe him. No head coach in the league is gonna coach a team where he doesn\'t get to choose his coordinators and his players. It just ain\'t gonna happen. Now we have players like Sully who eat in the press box before a game cause he sucks too much to be on the active roster, and Shaun Smith gets the boot while Sullivan doesn\'t get a slap on the wrist. AB has a problem with fans calling for Delhomme, let him walk. AB has a problem with fans calling for J.T., we trade him cause Haslett has his head stuck up AB\'s arse. I place a minimum of 85% of the blame for the CURRENT state of the team on Haslett. I place 100% of the blame of the organization not getting better over the last 20 years on Tom Benson.

12-09-2004, 11:36 AM	#5
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Right on the Money!!!!! SaintsWhoDi! That\'s reasonable, your post, that is. What I\'m alluding to is that Hazlett may not have the power that we are giving him. He, like Brooks, is a lightning rod for the whole mess. I tend to look at the Front Office as where all things begin. Case in point is Atlanta. Now, we\'ll see what happens throughout the rest of this season, and more importantly, next season with the Birds, but I\'d be willing to bet that the Falcons are not being run like Arthur Blank ran Home Depot. My point with my last post was that there are many things going on in the upper rooms that point to Hazlett, but MAY be or have been beyond his control. He may not have been able to replace McCarthy. Same with Venturi. I really was trying to say in my last post that the Franchise has a sick, almost schizophrenic, way of doing things, and Hazlett is a part, but not all of the craziness.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

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12-09-2004, 12:02 PM	#6
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Right on the Money!!!!! I don\'t disagree with you RDOX, that\'s why I said Benson has been the long term problem. But in the last 4 years, it has been Haslett. You hit the nail on the head that we see what good ownership can do, as Atlanta was a great example. Great point. I agree with that also. That\'s why Benson gets the longterm award as goat. But whether fair or not, personnel decisions have been Haslett\'s. Who starts and who sits, Haslett. Venturi not as a lb coach but as a d. coordinator, Haslett. Players not getting fined or benched for bad play and embarrassing the team, Haslett. Not making sure gameplans are up to par each week, Haslett. IF HE IS making sure not noticing glaring deficiences in the gameplan, Haslett. Letting McCarthy misuse players week in and week out, Haslett. It was Benson\'s fault for not firing him last year and it got worse.

12-09-2004, 12:16 PM	#7
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Right on the Money!!!!! I don\'t disagree with you RDOX, that\'s why I said Benson has been the long term problem. But in the last 4 years, it has been Haslett. You hit the nail on the head that we see what good ownership can do, as Atlanta was a great example. Great point. I agree with that also. That\'s why Benson gets the longterm award as goat. But whether fair or not, personnel decisions have been Haslett\'s. Who starts and who sits, Haslett. Venturi not as a lb coach but as a d. coordinator, Haslett. Players not getting fined or benched for bad play and embarrassing the team, Haslett. Not making sure gameplans are up to par each week, Haslett. IF HE IS making sure not noticing glaring deficiences in the gameplan, Haslett. Letting McCarthy misuse players week in and week out, Haslett. It was Benson\'s fault for not firing him last year and it got worse. In that you are right. Unfortunately, Hazlett\'s loyalty to this group is misplaced. I used to think that McCarthy was an offensive genious, now I just think that he\'s offensive. Also, this can be traced back to the fact that Hazlett was so afraid of a QB controversy that he gave the job to Brooks rather than allow Blake and Brooks to \"fight it out.\" Unfortunately for Brooks, Blake could have and should have been a second coach, with Delhomme as #3. If you look at Rodney Peete, that\'s what you have in Carolina. But, then again, that\'s Carolina. We sit with the short end of the string again.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

12-09-2004, 01:36 PM	#8
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Right on the Money!!!!! Hold on here... Mccarthy was NOT hired by Benson.. Venturi was a holdover, yes, but as a DB coach.. I SERIOUSLY doubt he was imposed upon Haslett as the DC when Zook left... Haslett must have at the very least apporved of the move... Loomis does NOT pick players... scouts scout them, report to the Dir or personnel, who reports findings to the coach, who then present findings to GM so GM can go and get that guy... Don\'t go pinning Sullivan, Cie Grant, Stichcomb, et al on

12-09-2004, 01:42 PM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Right on the Money!!!!! RDOX, agreed all the way around. Tobias, I think the point of what RDOX is saying if the front office is not blameless in its moves when it comes to the team. Who was hired by who is semantics at this point. I think he is just truly trying to say the front office is not blameless in all of this.

12-09-2004, 01:42 PM	#10
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Right on the Money!!!!! Loomis does NOT pick players... scouts scout them, report to the Dir or personnel, who reports findings to the coach, who then present findings to GM so GM can go and get that guy... Don\'t go pinning Sullivan, Cie Grant, Stichcomb, et al on Director of Player Personnel? The King Scout? Rick Meuller. You do have a point. Of course the GM is the guy who hires/fires the DPP.