Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game

|Mitch| · 07-31-2014, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Ingram's last year with us if he doesn't do something.

We have to have a run game to win.

he was our best runner last year; maybe the lack of run game is not his fault... That ever occur to his haters?

hagan714 · 08-01-2014, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Ingram just might get traded with the rest of the talent we have.

that scares the hell out me. one vet in an offense like ours? hell of a gamble and not one I would be willing to take, unless you have a vet from a complex offensive system cut by the start of the season and signs cheap to chase a ring.

other wise play out the season with all hands on deck and let the cards fall were they may. let him play 2014 for a contract with us

the way thing have been going comp picks seem to be better than most trades. well for the select teams that get them and we all know the saints aint one of them.

I still having problems putting 100% faith in a second year back at this point. backed up by a rookie? i just could not pull the trigger without another seasoned wobbie blanket already in hand.

Jack Vegas · 08-01-2014, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

he was our best runner last year; maybe the lack of run game is not his fault... That ever occur to his haters?

PT was our best running back last year. Ingram beefed up his stats in that one game against the Cowboys. Take away that one game and his seemingly impressive 4.9 yards per carry goes all the way down to 3.7 yards per carry.

PT didn't have a YPC as good as Ingram's but he was more consistent game to game, he contributes much more in the passing game (77 catches for 513 yards is hard to argue with) and he's a much better blocker. Those three things are much more important in an offense that is based on timing, passing and keeping on schedule when it comes to down and distance.

I want Ingram to succeed as much as anybody here and I'm rooting for him, and I loved seeing him ball out in the playoff games. But let's not pretend he's suddenly our best running back. We've seen decent stretches from him in the past and he never turned it into long-term, sustained success. He's got to be a lot more consistent.

|Mitch| · 08-01-2014, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

Take away that one game and his seemingly impressive 4.9 yards per carry goes all the way down to 3.7 yards per carry.

Seriously?!

Let's ignore one game because the stats from that game hurts my argument... Absolutely ridiculous

If you want to do that then we hsve to drop Pierres game against the Bucs where he had 5.8 ypc on 5 carries or his 7.3 ypc Atl game

Cruize · 08-01-2014, 01:08 PM

I love Ingram. I believe in him. He's a very good all around RB. He's been injured early and he's been part of Payton's horrible 1 back per play rotation, pass happy offense. He needs to be fed the ball. That being said, to my untrained eye, Robinson has what's referred to as "it". Hopefully, but I doubt it, Ingram and/or Robinson will get the chance to carry the workload and the offense will be more balanced.

Jack Vegas · 08-01-2014, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

Seriously?! Let's ignore one game because the stats from that game hurts my argument... Absolutely ridiculous

Do you not understand the concept of outliers? I only had one freshman course in statistics, but I know enough to understand how one big number in a series of much smaller numbers can skew the averages.

Ask yourself this question: Other than that Cowboys game, how many games did Ingram really impress. 1 or 2 maybe. He certainly wasn't as consistently productive a member of the team as Thomas was over the course of the season.

But I can play that game with PT too. Take out PT's best game of the season, and his average drops from 3.7 to 3.4. Not nearly as big a drop as 4.9 to 3.7. That alone tells you he's a more consistent player on a game to game basis, not even taking into account the pass blocking and receptions which I think everyone with half a brain on this board would acknowledge is an extremely important part of the Saints offense.

Here are some game logs for comparison. Stats don't tell the whole story, obviously, but it's a pretty good starting point.

Pierre Thomas Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

Mark Ingram Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

Jack Vegas · 08-01-2014, 01:42 PM

In games in which they both played (I'll eliminate games where Ingram was hurt), total yardage for both players.

Falcons. Ingram 11 total yards, PT 59 total yards
@ TB. Ingram 20 total yards, PT 48 total yards
@ Jets. Ingram 19 total yards, PT 90 total yards
Dallas. Ingram 160 total yards, PT 111 total yards
SF. Ingram 29 total yards, PT 84 total yards
@ Atl. Ingram 32 total yards, PT 130 total yards
@ Seattle. Ingram 22 total yards, PT 21 total yards
Carolina. Ingram 4 total yards, PT 28 total yards
@ STL. Ingram 44 total yards, PT 83 total yards
@ Carolina. Ingram 90 total yards, PT 15 total yards
TB. Ingram 30 total yards, PT 23 total yards

Ingram 460 total yards, PT 692 total yards in games where they both played.

Now tell me, again, which is the more productive player. Again I don't have much experience in statistics so I'd welcome any help.

|Mitch| · 08-01-2014, 01:43 PM

the run game sucked as a whole for most of the season; but keep hating and blame Mark for it all

|Mitch| · 08-01-2014, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

In games in which they both played (I'll eliminate games where Ingram was hurt), total yardage for both players.

Falcons. Ingram 11 total yards, PT 59 total yards
@ TB. Ingram 20 total yards, PT 48 total yards
@ Jets. Ingram 19 total yards, PT 90 total yards
Dallas. Ingram 160 total yards, PT 111 total yards
SF. Ingram 29 total yards, PT 84 total yards
@ Atl. Ingram 32 total yards, PT 130 total yards
@ Seattle. Ingram 22 total yards, PT 21 total yards
Carolina. Ingram 4 total yards, PT 28 total yards
@ STL. Ingram 44 total yards, PT 83 total yards
@ Carolina. Ingram 90 total yards, PT 15 total yards
TB. Ingram 30 total yards, PT 23 total yards

Ingram 460 total yards, PT 692 total yards in games where they both played.

Now tell me, again, which is the more productive player. Again I don't have much experience in statistics so I'd welcome any help.

tells you nothing without the number of carries brought into play

Jack Vegas · 08-01-2014, 01:44 PM

You're just being stupid and emotional. "Hate" has nothing to do with it. "Blame" has nothing to do with it. You're trying to claim Ingram was the best running back on the team last year and that claim just doesn't stand up to even the most casual of scrutiny.

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

tells you nothing without the number of carries brought into play

If the coaches truly thought Ingram was a better running back than PT, wouldn't they give him more carries?

07-31-2014, 08:05 PM	#11
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game Originally Posted by Euphoria Ingram's last year with us if he doesn't do something. We have to have a run game to win. he was our best runner last year; maybe the lack of run game is not his fault... That ever occur to his haters? Danno likes this.

08-01-2014, 06:53 AM	#12
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Ingram just might get traded with the rest of the talent we have. that scares the hell out me. one vet in an offense like ours? hell of a gamble and not one I would be willing to take, unless you have a vet from a complex offensive system cut by the start of the season and signs cheap to chase a ring. other wise play out the season with all hands on deck and let the cards fall were they may. let him play 2014 for a contract with us the way thing have been going comp picks seem to be better than most trades. well for the select teams that get them and we all know the saints aint one of them. I still having problems putting 100% faith in a second year back at this point. backed up by a rookie? i just could not pull the trigger without another seasoned wobbie blanket already in hand.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 08-01-2014 at 06:57 AM..

08-01-2014, 11:34 AM	#13
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| he was our best runner last year; maybe the lack of run game is not his fault... That ever occur to his haters? PT was our best running back last year. Ingram beefed up his stats in that one game against the Cowboys. Take away that one game and his seemingly impressive 4.9 yards per carry goes all the way down to 3.7 yards per carry. PT didn't have a YPC as good as Ingram's but he was more consistent game to game, he contributes much more in the passing game (77 catches for 513 yards is hard to argue with) and he's a much better blocker. Those three things are much more important in an offense that is based on timing, passing and keeping on schedule when it comes to down and distance. I want Ingram to succeed as much as anybody here and I'm rooting for him, and I loved seeing him ball out in the playoff games. But let's not pretend he's suddenly our best running back. We've seen decent stretches from him in the past and he never turned it into long-term, sustained success. He's got to be a lot more consistent. darstep and MarchingOn like this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

08-01-2014, 12:51 PM	#14
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game Originally Posted by Jack Vegas Take away that one game and his seemingly impressive 4.9 yards per carry goes all the way down to 3.7 yards per carry. Seriously?! Let's ignore one game because the stats from that game hurts my argument... Absolutely ridiculous If you want to do that then we hsve to drop Pierres game against the Bucs where he had 5.8 ypc on 5 carries or his 7.3 ypc Atl game
	Last edited by \|Mitch\|; 08-01-2014 at 01:01 PM..

08-01-2014, 01:08 PM	#15
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game I love Ingram. I believe in him. He's a very good all around RB. He's been injured early and he's been part of Payton's horrible 1 back per play rotation, pass happy offense. He needs to be fed the ball. That being said, to my untrained eye, Robinson has what's referred to as "it". Hopefully, but I doubt it, Ingram and/or Robinson will get the chance to carry the workload and the offense will be more balanced.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457

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08-01-2014, 01:25 PM	#16
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| Seriously?! Let's ignore one game because the stats from that game hurts my argument... Absolutely ridiculous Do you not understand the concept of outliers? I only had one freshman course in statistics, but I know enough to understand how one big number in a series of much smaller numbers can skew the averages. Ask yourself this question: Other than that Cowboys game, how many games did Ingram really impress. 1 or 2 maybe. He certainly wasn't as consistently productive a member of the team as Thomas was over the course of the season. But I can play that game with PT too. Take out PT's best game of the season, and his average drops from 3.7 to 3.4. Not nearly as big a drop as 4.9 to 3.7. That alone tells you he's a more consistent player on a game to game basis, not even taking into account the pass blocking and receptions which I think everyone with half a brain on this board would acknowledge is an extremely important part of the Saints offense. Here are some game logs for comparison. Stats don't tell the whole story, obviously, but it's a pretty good starting point. Pierre Thomas Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN Mark Ingram Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

08-01-2014, 01:42 PM	#17
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game In games in which they both played (I'll eliminate games where Ingram was hurt), total yardage for both players. Falcons. Ingram 11 total yards, PT 59 total yards @ TB. Ingram 20 total yards, PT 48 total yards @ Jets. Ingram 19 total yards, PT 90 total yards Dallas. Ingram 160 total yards, PT 111 total yards SF. Ingram 29 total yards, PT 84 total yards @ Atl. Ingram 32 total yards, PT 130 total yards @ Seattle. Ingram 22 total yards, PT 21 total yards Carolina. Ingram 4 total yards, PT 28 total yards @ STL. Ingram 44 total yards, PT 83 total yards @ Carolina. Ingram 90 total yards, PT 15 total yards TB. Ingram 30 total yards, PT 23 total yards Ingram 460 total yards, PT 692 total yards in games where they both played. Now tell me, again, which is the more productive player. Again I don't have much experience in statistics so I'd welcome any help.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

08-01-2014, 01:43 PM	#18
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game the run game sucked as a whole for most of the season; but keep hating and blame Mark for it all

08-01-2014, 01:44 PM	#19
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: Pressure on Mark Ingram builds as Saints emphasize run game Originally Posted by Jack Vegas In games in which they both played (I'll eliminate games where Ingram was hurt), total yardage for both players. Falcons. Ingram 11 total yards, PT 59 total yards @ TB. Ingram 20 total yards, PT 48 total yards @ Jets. Ingram 19 total yards, PT 90 total yards Dallas. Ingram 160 total yards, PT 111 total yards SF. Ingram 29 total yards, PT 84 total yards @ Atl. Ingram 32 total yards, PT 130 total yards @ Seattle. Ingram 22 total yards, PT 21 total yards Carolina. Ingram 4 total yards, PT 28 total yards @ STL. Ingram 44 total yards, PT 83 total yards @ Carolina. Ingram 90 total yards, PT 15 total yards TB. Ingram 30 total yards, PT 23 total yards Ingram 460 total yards, PT 692 total yards in games where they both played. Now tell me, again, which is the more productive player. Again I don't have much experience in statistics so I'd welcome any help. tells you nothing without the number of carries brought into play

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