I said this, months ago

Jack Vegas · 09-07-2014, 10:04 PM

As long as we don't focus on turnovers at the expense of making the stops, then I'm fine with it.

As it stands we have a pretty rare thing on defense, because we can stop even a good offense in its tracks and get lots of 3-and-outs. Turnovers are great, but at some point you're going to run into a team that won't give you any and you have to be able to stop them the old-fashioned way.

Huge problem in this game, IMO. All offseason it was turnover this, turnover that. Strip fumble this, interception that.

We didn't play fundamentally sound defense. How many missed tackles did we see, how many plays did we give up an extra 5, 6, or 10 yards because our guys were chasing and swatting at the ball instead of actually, you know, tackling?

I hate this because I saw it coming from a mile away. Anytime and everytime I've ever heard any NFL team preach about creating turnovers, this crap always happens.

Need to get back to basics. Cover, tackle, rush the passer. Screw the turnovers. The defense got embarrassed today all the way around.

|Mitch| · 09-07-2014, 10:14 PM

I really didn't see too many missed tackles due to "swatting" for the ball. Most of the missed tackles were because they would be out of position or take the wrong angle to the ball carrier or not be fast enough to get there...

Danno · 09-07-2014, 10:18 PM

Maybe so Jack, tackling was pretty bad.

Jack Vegas · 09-07-2014, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

I really didn't see too many missed tackles due to "swatting" for the ball. Most of the missed tackles were because they would be out of position or take the wrong angle to the ball carrier or not be fast enough to get there...

2nd quarter, about 4 minutes left. Had them on a 3rd and 12 deep in our own territory, could've forced a field goal. Falcons RB #24 catches a pass in the flats. Keenan Lewis is in perfect position, but instead of wrapping up and taking him down 5 yards short of the first down, he sticks his hand in and tries to knock the ball out. Falcons RB gets 13 yards and a first and goal. Falcons go on to score a TD.

4th quarter, 3 minutes left. Again, Falcons deep in Saints territory. Ryan hands off to Jacquizz Rodgers. Vacarro is there to make the play, again goes in with the arm swinging. Doesn't even attempt to wrap up. Rodgers easily spins away from the half-ass "tackle" attempt goes into the end zone with the go ahead TD.

Two pretty egregious examples, and that's just from the few clips on the nfl.com recap. You can watch them here. Watch New Orleans Saints vs. Atlanta Falcons [09/07/2014] - NFL.com

Danno · 09-08-2014, 09:10 AM

The more I think about it the more I think you have a valid point. We focused so much on forcing turnovers we neglected fundamental tackling techniques.

The good news is I think we get back to teaching tackling.

TheOak · 09-08-2014, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

How many missed tackles did we see,

Missed tackles against Atlanta = 23
Missed tackles in the entire 2013 regular season = 77 total

Mardigras9 · 09-08-2014, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

I really didn't see too many missed tackles due to "swatting" for the ball. Most of the missed tackles were because they would be out of position or take the wrong angle to the ball carrier or not be fast enough to get there...

Most of the big runs I remember, there were bad angles.

Danno · 09-08-2014, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Missed tackles against Atlanta = 23
Missed tackles in the entire 2013 regular season = 77 total

Wow, that is amazing.

Heres another one...
2012 Defense 440.2 yards per game (worst in NFL history)

2014 vs ATL 568 yards

Matt Ryan threw the ball 43 times
Saints Defense -
1 Sack,
2 PD,
1 FF,
0 TFL,
0 QB Hits

NonieT · 09-08-2014, 09:57 AM

This loss falls on the players but it also falls on the coaches. Rob Ryan outsmarted himself. He used the same scheme that Spagnolo used in 2012 and it didn't work. What a surprise!!!!! He should have stayed in his comfort zone. Too much thinking and not enough reacting. Was the same problem in 2012. It also resulted in missed tackles and blown assignments. It didn't work in 2012: why in the world would he think it would work now.

exile · 09-08-2014, 09:58 AM

We played soft. KLew on a few tackle tries looked like Deion Sanders. Lofton was the only thumper who stood out to me at all. Matt Ryan looked like Randal Cunningham. Even if we would have won in overtime the sense of a tired defense came about.

Anyway, on to Cleveland....

09-07-2014, 10:04 PM	#1
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	I said this, months ago As long as we don't focus on turnovers at the expense of making the stops, then I'm fine with it. As it stands we have a pretty rare thing on defense, because we can stop even a good offense in its tracks and get lots of 3-and-outs. Turnovers are great, but at some point you're going to run into a team that won't give you any and you have to be able to stop them the old-fashioned way. Huge problem in this game, IMO. All offseason it was turnover this, turnover that. Strip fumble this, interception that. We didn't play fundamentally sound defense. How many missed tackles did we see, how many plays did we give up an extra 5, 6, or 10 yards because our guys were chasing and swatting at the ball instead of actually, you know, tackling? I hate this because I saw it coming from a mile away. Anytime and everytime I've ever heard any NFL team preach about creating turnovers, this crap always happens. Need to get back to basics. Cover, tackle, rush the passer. Screw the turnovers. The defense got embarrassed today all the way around. jnormand, hagan714, gomaneasy and 2 others like this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

09-07-2014, 10:18 PM	#3
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: I said this, months ago Maybe so Jack, tackling was pretty bad.

09-07-2014, 10:34 PM	#4
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: I said this, months ago Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| I really didn't see too many missed tackles due to "swatting" for the ball. Most of the missed tackles were because they would be out of position or take the wrong angle to the ball carrier or not be fast enough to get there... 2nd quarter, about 4 minutes left. Had them on a 3rd and 12 deep in our own territory, could've forced a field goal. Falcons RB #24 catches a pass in the flats. Keenan Lewis is in perfect position, but instead of wrapping up and taking him down 5 yards short of the first down, he sticks his hand in and tries to knock the ball out. Falcons RB gets 13 yards and a first and goal. Falcons go on to score a TD. 4th quarter, 3 minutes left. Again, Falcons deep in Saints territory. Ryan hands off to Jacquizz Rodgers. Vacarro is there to make the play, again goes in with the arm swinging. Doesn't even attempt to wrap up. Rodgers easily spins away from the half-ass "tackle" attempt goes into the end zone with the go ahead TD. Two pretty egregious examples, and that's just from the few clips on the nfl.com recap. You can watch them here. Watch New Orleans Saints vs. Atlanta Falcons [09/07/2014] - NFL.com Rugby Saint II likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

09-08-2014, 09:10 AM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: I said this, months ago The more I think about it the more I think you have a valid point. We focused so much on forcing turnovers we neglected fundamental tackling techniques. The good news is I think we get back to teaching tackling. QBREES9 and AliJee like this.

09-08-2014, 09:28 AM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: I said this, months ago Originally Posted by Jack Vegas How many missed tackles did we see, Missed tackles against Atlanta = 23 Missed tackles in the entire 2013 regular season = 77 total

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09-07-2014, 10:14 PM	#2
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: I said this, months ago I really didn't see too many missed tackles due to "swatting" for the ball. Most of the missed tackles were because they would be out of position or take the wrong angle to the ball carrier or not be fast enough to get there... Mardigras9 likes this.

09-08-2014, 09:44 AM	#7
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: I said this, months ago Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| I really didn't see too many missed tackles due to "swatting" for the ball. Most of the missed tackles were because they would be out of position or take the wrong angle to the ball carrier or not be fast enough to get there... Most of the big runs I remember, there were bad angles.

09-08-2014, 09:52 AM	#8
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: I said this, months ago Originally Posted by TheOak Missed tackles against Atlanta = 23 Missed tackles in the entire 2013 regular season = 77 total Wow, that is amazing. Heres another one... 2012 Defense 440.2 yards per game (worst in NFL history) 2014 vs ATL 568 yards Matt Ryan threw the ball 43 times Saints Defense - 1 Sack, 2 PD, 1 FF, 0 TFL, 0 QB Hits

09-08-2014, 09:57 AM	#9
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: I said this, months ago This loss falls on the players but it also falls on the coaches. Rob Ryan outsmarted himself. He used the same scheme that Spagnolo used in 2012 and it didn't work. What a surprise!!!!! He should have stayed in his comfort zone. Too much thinking and not enough reacting. Was the same problem in 2012. It also resulted in missed tackles and blown assignments. It didn't work in 2012: why in the world would he think it would work now.
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

09-08-2014, 09:58 AM	#10
exile Cake or Death? Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,608	Re: I said this, months ago We played soft. KLew on a few tackle tries looked like Deion Sanders. Lofton was the only thumper who stood out to me at all. Matt Ryan looked like Randal Cunningham. Even if we would have won in overtime the sense of a tired defense came about. Anyway, on to Cleveland.... hagan714 likes this.
exile Cake or Death? Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,608

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