secondary
 

I hate to sound like a downer after a win, but #28 is not looking very much like the player he was last year. #32 is missing way too many tackles and dumb penalties. #31 doesn't look at all like the impact player he was on his old team. #24 and #25 are probably playing the best out of all the DB's at the moment.

I wonder if we haven't messed up the secondary by signing #31. I'm not saying he sucks or anything, but with #27 back there last year we had some man-to-man coverage ability in a safety. #31, it seems, can only play back in zone. I would obviously love to be proven wrong on this.

The main thing right now is #28. He really needs to get it together, because today he was reminded me of #21 and that's definitely not a good thing.

Re: secondary
 

Spot on, Jack.
I'm concerned with the secondary playing the receiver and not playing the ball.

On the bright side, we kept the Vikings out of the end zone, however, they were operating without TWO key starters on offense today.

A good win, but i'm still wanting for aggression.

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The secondary has looked better every game... And it'll take some time before the safeties get used to each others tendencies, so I'm not worried about either Vaccaro or Byrd.

Hell, today without Robinson they were actually playing some man press coverage... It's a step in the right direction and everything else will fall into place

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After watching again, it's not quite as bad as it felt during the game, but still not even close to last year's standards. Corey White (I will use his name here, he earned it) had a very good game. But #28 looked even worse than I had thought the first time around, and #32 has some real problems staying with his man and not getting PI.

We also got very lucky several times. Bridgewater rushed a couple throws and missed wide open guys in some pretty critical spots. Romo will not be so easily intimidated by our one-man pass rush. :lol:

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It appeared that there was way too much cushion at times.... WTF!

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I like our secondary a lot more when Corey white is the #2 CB, for one thing he is a sure tackler

A lot of the yards against p-rob was because he can't tackle or gives a half hearted effort

Corey knows the proper tackling technique, he wraps up well

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Secondary will look a lot better once the pass rush issue is resolved.

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Issue number 1: Pass rush needs to addressed.

Having a pass rush that hurries the QB makes a huge difference for the DBs. They can feel more comfortable playing press man coverage knowing the deep ball will be less likely due to a good pass rush. This also helps turn-overs with strip-sacks and hurried throws that shouldn't have been made. I think most of our issues actually start up front (now that PRob is done) with guys like Cam Jordan being a non-factor.

I would like to see Powell get his shot in passing situations. They like #91 and have had him in on passing downs but I have yet to see the hype. Powell was amazing in college when healthy and looked good in the pre-season.

Issue number 2: Cohesion

It takes time for a secondary to gel. They also need to find a leader. Vaccaro said they all take on the leadership role, but that is a problem. If you have too many leaders then you have none. One of them needs to stand up and take charge of the DBs. The QB of the defensive backs is needed and right now that's what we are missing. Jenkins was a great leader for the team, as he is for philly, but someone (Byrd) needs to fill that void.

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Agreed, it would be nice to see Powell play
I like Humber but he isn't an outside linebacker, which is where we played him yesterday, he is a run stopping thumper in the middle

Our defense as a whole is still not communicating well, there were a couple blown assignments that could have cost us, namely greg jennings wide open 60 yards down field with not a defender in site, luckily our D forced the QB to scramble on that play.
The communication needs to get better though, one play I watched a couple of times was the 30 yard pass to patterson, which is a perfect example.

Vikings are in I formation, with 2 receivers to the left, play action fake
The full back comes through the line and heads to the sideline
NOW, Ramon Humber backs up but does not go for the full back, Keenan lewis and Humber end up covering the same zone where the full back has leaked out to.
Which Vacates a huge space on the deep left off the field where I believe Keenan Lewis should have dropped back into, Patterson runs a corner route and Byrd is covering jennings running a deep route.

Patterson was left completely unmarked and byrd has to come back to make the tackle, from the way Keenan lewis acted I believe he was at fault, he jumped the full back when he came through the line when humber already had that zone covered

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I think it's hard to judge our secondary when the two first sets of guys in front of them are non existent. No pass rush and our LBers are a joke. Plenty of blame to go around

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Are they the second coming of the Eagles dream team?

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Who would have thought after 3 games our top rated CB would be Corey White?

I'm starting to worry that SJB was a bad pick. We have an UDFA CB playing CB while SJB is riding the pine.

Hopefully its just a case of Dixon playing so much better than anyone thought, another diamond in the rough.

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lets be honest here. our secondary reminds me of the cowgirls secondary the years Rob was there. that worries me big time. so much has been made of his scheme being too difficult to master and it might be as simple as it suxs?

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The defense did keep them out of the endzone, but I'm not sure they do if the Vikings had a more efficient red zone offense. Was it our defense doing it or the their offense not getting it done? I lean toward the latter.

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Dixon is playing because he has been a terror on ST- a gunner with speed. Once he learns to actually stop and tackle he will be a force.

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I thought Lewis looked better Sunday, and White stepped up. KV with too many whiffs again, and Byrd with a pedestrian performance.
I thought Bush played well at times; he is a consistent tackler, unlike KV and Prob

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We fix problems up front and these DBs will look amazing. I don't get how our line isn't getting pressure. They did it pretty well last season. We really have not lost anyone besides Harper.

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I think this illustrates one of the points I made in another thread. Our secondary is often asked to compensate for our very slow linebackers. In most situations Lewis would expect the linebacker to handle the zone responsibility against the full back but in our system we pretty much know the linebacker is not going to make that play. Case and point, when asiata caught the pass out in the flat curtis lofton didn't even try to run hard to make the tackle, he just assumed one of the db's would make the tackle. It wasn't till he saw the DB getting blocked that he actually tried to make a play. These type of plays happen far too often. We need to start playing the 3 safety look more with either Bush or Vaccaro in the box to make up for our lack of pursuit speed at the LB position.

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I miss Harper. Never hated him the way most people did.

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White is ony going to get better.I got Dixon pushing Robinson if he goes down, maybe if he don't. Robinson needs some good games to change things around. How do you think Bush has been? With the tools in the secondary if they got there crap together as one, we might get by with the inside lb.ers sloth like movement, they should concentrate at least shoring up the run. I wish we would trade to get a stud ILB. we could afford it.

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I've never been impressed with Bush. He's an OK starter, but certainly nothing special. He's often way out of the picture when a WR catches the ball.

We could do worse, and have, but he's just average in my opinion.

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I dont know the coverage on the play but if it was a cover 3/1 with byrd up top(probably 50 yards back for whatever reason), in most defenses the cover 3 corner is supposed to come down on rollouts and floods while the safety is supposed is supposed to occupy the zone previously occupied by the corner. The far side corner then should assume the safety role, the safety assumes the corners old role as deep third to that play. I think Byrd either was covering for a a bigger potential play/ just playing deepest threat. Humber then has responsibility for chasing the qb and lewis for the outside threat. I think the far side corner should've had responsibility of Jennings then.

Re: secondary
 

I believe that's improper coaching or just plain bad instincts. None of our players ever appear to be a prime position helping each other out making plays on the ball. It always seems to be single coverage and none of our players seem to flow to the ball as quickly as Carolina or Seattle or any other team that creates any turnovers. That could be the reason for lack of turnovers/ plays on the ball, but it sure isn't fun to watch.

I think they're just playing too far off the ball or too spread out.

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Our linebackers are slow.

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I think they should play tighter also, Byrd playing that far off makes me wonder if his back is up to 100% or not.When totally healthy thats one bad guy a turnover machine.

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He is O.K., I want him to hit more, I like his pop.It has took a long time for me to warm up to him I hope he stays solid. Average can be good.

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I just keep waiting for all these "turnovers" to happen. 1 game against a decent QB with a shaky online and 2 games against below average QBs and we have 1 fumble recovery and 0 pics. Wtf?

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I was at the game yesterday and there were way too many open guys and the Minnesota drives ended on miscue throws not our defenders contesting the ball

it almost seems like they stop the receiver once he catches the ball, not before

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Exactly right. There were quite a few defensive plays yesterday that were basically 100% pure Minnesota screw ups, and the result of nothing special by the Saints defense at all. Came home from the game and compared this to *cough* Seattle on TV, where guys are literally draped around the receivers neck as the ball arrives, hanging off them, leading to tipped balls, broken passes, instant tackles, and bunches of interceptions. Even the lowly Steelers in the night game, were attacking both the QB and receivers, batting at them, stripping the ball, contesting throws, contesting catches, being aggressive. It's like the Saints defense are playing by an entirely different set of rules than the other teams around the league -- they keep leaving these huge massive cushions and wide open green spaces between them and the receivers. Very passive. And Byrd hanging out 40 yards away from anybody.

I mean the rules are basically now, as long as you sorta turn your head for locating the ball, you can push the guy, or grab jersey, or bump, or clothesline him with your freaking elbow, or pretty much do almost whatever you want to do to the receiver....Seems like the Saints have not really gotten the memo on that yet.

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This was not a great test for our Defense. Lest see next week what they bring to the table. Tony ROMO!!!!!!!!

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I wonder if a trade for cary williams is in place,if so how will saint's nation accept him?

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Um....the guy that was *****ing to the media about how his coach is making them "practice too hard"? The drama would be awful. He'd probably whine that Sean or Rob yelled at him.

What a baby.

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Just saw PFF grades, Bush graded our worst DB and 2nd worst defender just ahead of Humber.

Corey White graded out our best CB, Vaccaro our best DB.

Byrd with another negative grade.

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During pre-season I thought they all played well with the exception of Byrd( still recovering and little playing time). Sunseri looked like a man possessed and Warren was everywhere, I have not a clue why they couldn't continue to play lights out especially when the games count.I'm waiting to see Byrd tested to see if he is 100% or not.

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"Speedy linebacker please...." Where have we heard that before?

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Me, for the last 2 years not including this one.

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I thought Humber played better than that... I think his 3 tackles were all on the same series. He also had a deflection; apparently getting hit in the helmet counts.

D-line invisible: Josh Hill had more tackle than Hicks, Bunkley and Deaderick...COMBINED

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If we lose in Dallas, this will be the reason. This win deserves about a 5 second celebration -- and not Jimmy-style.

There were way too many missed tackles in this game too.

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Humber just isn't very good in pass coverage.

Over the last decade, it seems every one of our linebackers not named Vilma absolutely suck in coverage.

Why does our front office suck so bad at acquiring stud linebackers?
Lofton is good, but we're paying him great.
Hawthorne is adequate, but again he's got a salary that says great.
Humber is a special teamer and situational sub, but probably won't ever be much more than that.