Why do you come here?
 

OK I see now. Saints forums apparently are only for venting, complaining and whining.
After a loss the boards are truly hopping at a fever pitch.
After a win, crickets chirping, tumbleweed tumbling.

Why do you come here?

Is it only to vent?
Is it only to celebrate?

I'll throw you vent-guys some assistance, since I'm sure you're still in saddened state of shock, and probably on suicide watch since we won't finish 4-12 and have a top 10 pick anymore...

"Yeah, we won, but it was against their scrubs."
"If Vick had played we'd have lost big."
"If it weren't for Lewis, we'd have lost for sure."
"Yeah, so what, Jake is gonna destroy Brooks."
"Even though we won, Brooks is still the main problem."
"Big woop, even if we make the playoffs we'll get crushed 1st round."

Why do you come here?
 

danno i just got back into town but man i dont care if we beat all 2nd team players. we are more then likely one win out of the playoffs and ill take it. at least their playing hard. and our d hasnt let up over 20 in the last three. we do have a huge challenge this week but lets hope.

Why do you come here?
 

I promised a few members I would keep my detrimental statements to a minimum until the true heartbreak happened. I said we would prob beat Atlanta, then rip hearts out with an egg at Carolina. Say what you will, Brooks is still terrible or do you not watch the games? Another red zone INT, he has to lead the league over the past few years. If not for overly inspired play by the D and the special teams, again it would have been hard to come up with the win. But yet again they are playing over their heads. I don\'t particularly like being called out but will respond when I am.

Good to see you haven\'t yet been blinded and can still see some truth. Question, does an AB led team have a victory over a Delhomme led team yet? Even with Carolina with their main starters out and AB\'s squad fully healthy? Even with Carolina\'s o-line just as terrible as ours? Shockingly maybe to only you Danno, no they don\'t.

So in the spirit of the holiday season, I tried to tether my disappointment that this team has bamboozled the faithful yet again and could not even get losing right, but some folks just have to poke a sleeping grizzly with a stick to get their kicks.

Why do you come here?
 

Yes I watch the games, every game in fact. But I watch the whole game.

Brooks not so great? YES I\'ll agree wholeheartedly. He is a mediocre NFL QB. At times realy good and at times really bad, but constantly inconsistent.

But to say Brooks is terrible? Not exactly. If Brooks is TERRIBLE then we\'d better keep Haz/McCarthy and crew because to put up solid numbers on offense with a terrible QB and a horrible O-line suggests they must be coaching their assses off.
Well I don\'t think so and I hope Benson doesn\'t think so either.



Not calling you out. Just commeting on how quiet the boards are after a win versus a loss.



No, does Deuce? Does Horn?

The only thing I find shocking is that we have a defense on pace to finish among the worst in NFL HISTORY and people still point at the QB. Then if you point that fact out to anyone they immediately think you must think AB is a top 5 QB.
Last I checked, there are 53 players on each team, not one. Or do you not watch the games?

Just trying to get some responses after a win. After a loss there\'s a ton of folks here clubbing grizzlies over the head to get theirs

Why do you come here?
 

..maybe the forum is not busy because people are away on Christmas vacations?

[Edited on 27/12/2004 by Tobias-Reiper]

Why do you come here?
 

Okay Danno, let\'s look at the NFL. Who gets the credit for the Steelers wins? Big Ben. Who gets the credit for the Pats wins? Tom Brady. Credit for Giants losses? Eli. See a trend? Big Ben wins handing off to Bettis and having the league\'s number one D, but he gets the headlines. Brady wins cause of a genius coaching staff and a group of intelligent players around him. Brady gets the headlines. The Giants receivers and o-line are terrible. And their defense is without several of its best players. Who gets the blame for losses? Eli. That\'s how it is. This team is winning DESPITE Aaron Brooks. Look at it how you will, that is the truth. Brooks is terrible. And if what they are putting up to you is \"solid numbers\" then I am glad you don\'t run the team cause you will overpay for any mediocre players. The defense is now putting up solid numbers, so is the special teams. but to feel an offense that has not scored a point in the first quarter of 11 straight games has been putting up \"solid numbers\" is pure fantasy.

As far as AB verses Jake goes, who hands off to Deuce and throws to Horn? AB. If he is terrible, how does Deuce or Horn get a chance to beat anyone? The qb touches the ball EVERY OFFENSIVE PLAY, therefore has the most power to decide the outcome of the game. Jake beat us without his Deuce(Davis) without his Horn(Smith) without his Stecker(Foster), need I go on? So Jake vs AB is exactly that, Jake verses AB and AB has yet to notch a victory, even with Jake\'s team practically handicapped by injury. Unless you somehow feel AB could perform BETTER without Horn, Deuce and Stecker. Jake certainly has.

A defense that has played it\'s asses off the last 3 games and are the MAIN reson we are winning anything. Again the AB led offense has been outscored 114-10 in the 1st quarter. I wonder how many defenses will look good with that kinda deficit EVERY GAME. See, we can make stats say whatever we want. Think AB\'s turnovers in the red zone don\'t demoralize a defense? What about a 20 yard backwards lateral to a lineman, albeit an open one? Or an underhanded pitch to an open opposing lb for a td? Yeah, sounds like the guy I wanna play my heart out for.

Why do you come here?
 

Let\'s face it, people try to use this board to vent. When things are good, they go elsewhere or don\'t care. I\'ve never seen better numbers than when we lose.

Everyone should participate even when we win. Just post something positive and try not to make everything look so bad. Brooks had a bad game yesterday but we won. I\'ve seen Favre have bad games also and the Pack win, same with Manning and the Colts.

I just can\'t blame everything on Brooks.

And I\'m really REALLY excited that we have a chance to play for a playoff spot. That\'s all I ask. Sunday will be the first game I will be at the Sportsbar early with my Deuce 26 jersey on with my season ticket buds really pulling (and praying) we win, wanting a good good game. For me, Sunday is already going to be like a playoff.

Hope St Louis gets trounced tonight.

[Edited on 12/27/2004 by Halo]

Why do you come here?
 

So much I disagree with, so little time to address.
No he doesn\'t. I don\'t know of a single person who thinks the Steelers are only Ben.
No he doesn\'t. He gets tons of accolades but most experts will point to a solid organization top to bottom 1st and foremost.
No he doesn\'t. The press is falling over themselves defending him because of his poor supporting cast.
Is that Brooks problem? Not enough headlines? LOL

So even if the QB isn\'t the problem (bad WR\'s and O-line), he should get the blame?
I don\'t understand your logic.
17th in the league total offense.
32nd in the league total defense.
If you think Offense is the problem I certainly don\'t want you running the team either.
???? You lost me with that one.
You don\'t think a great defense plays a part in winning/losing? Bet NFL much?
I\'m curious, did Dilfer get all the credit for the Ravens superbowl victory?

I was kinda hoping to see 11 versus 11. Is AB gonna play defense against Jake? Is Jake gonna play defense against Aaron?
Hmmm, lets recap the 1st Carolina game shall we.

1st possession
1st down-Perfect pass to Joe Horn, DROP
2nd down-Deuce predictably up the middle for 3
3rd down-Perfect pass to Deuce, DROP

2nd possession
1st down-Deuce predictably to right for 2
2nd down-Perfect pass to Deuce, DROP
3rd down-Brooks scrambles for 7.

3rd Possession
1st down-Deuce predictably left for 3
2nd down-Deuce hit 5 yards behind line, fumbles, another TD Carolina

Yup, looks like ole Jake vs AB to me! LOL
Wait a minute, I thought you said the QB gets the credit, thats how it is.

Well SHAZAM! The defense starts to play decent (hardly great) and we start winning. Whoda\' thunk it?

Why do you come here?
 

Waz up Danno, I\'m usually here alot but the past several months the job has taken over. I don\'t care if the Saint\'s make the playoffs against high school teams. When they beat Carolina this week, they will then play the Packers in the first game of the playoffs, which in my opinion we have a very good chance of winning. So we could actually win 11 games this season, my prediction was 11-5, just three more losses then I predicted.

Why do you come here?
 

I don\'t even know where to start with showing you all the errors Danno. In case you haven\'t heard, the media is filled with Big Ben 12-0 and Brayd loses game against the Dolphins with his uncharacteristic 4 picks and Ben is better than Eli caus eEli is 0-6 and he is 12-0. If you don\'t see those reports, you either choose not to watch ESPN, Fox Sunday Countdown or CBS pregame show. ALso choose to ignore ESPN\'s web page, the NFL\'s, and any other reports. Reload that answer and try again.

This isn\'t my logic, it\'s how it works. Like I said, if you choose to avoid the main media sports outlets, you won\'t see this. Once again, this is where the media places the blame mainly, the qb. Should I say it again to get the point across? Media=blame qbs for losses and praise them for wins. I will repeat it further down so you won\'t again draw the inference that that is my idea. I KNOW it isn\'t all Eli\'s fault the Giants lose, yet all you get out of the news is Eli is 0-6 and he won;t be a Peyton and he is no Ben and blah blah blah. SO say it with me now, media=blames qbs for losses, praises for wins, get it now?

So an offense that goes 3 and out EVERY first quarter and never gives it\'s D a lead is fine with you? Like I said, glad you aren\'t in the front office. If you can\'t see a direct correlation between horrible plays by the offense and a poor defense, I don\'t know how to expand your range of view. Offense turns the ball over in the redzone, is that the defense\'s fault. INT in the opposing team\'s red zone, I guess that is the defense\'s fault too. Okay.

It wasn\'t hard either. AB hands to Deuce, and throws to Horn. Let me make it simple, if AB fumbles the snap, does that effect Horn or Deuce? Yup. If AB throws an INT or a backwards pass, does that effect Horn or Deuce? Yup. Can Horn or Deuce have done anything to change that? Nope. Get it now?

Yeah, look at the great defenses the Colts, Vikes, and PAckers have. Playoff teams. I am sure they are hanging their every victory on the defense. lol

Way to be sarcastic. Let me know when AB wins a game without Deuce, Stecker, and Horn and then we\'ll talk.

Why do you come here?
 

If you choose to ignore a QB\'s supporting cast then there\'s no way I\'ll ever convince you it matters. I guess you think Dilfer was a better QB than Marino huh?



Except when YOU are talking about Brooks.
I\'ll type real slow just for you...
You can\'t blame or credit a QB without looking at the whole picture.
I never said that. Try again. I said its not Brooks fault.
If you can\'t see that our offensive problems go beyond Brooks, I don\'t think its possible to expand your range of view. And if you think our defense is as bad as it is directly because of the offense then its also not worth trying.
So if Deuce fumbles, it Aarons fault.
And if Horn drops a ball, its Aarons fault.
If Pathon fumbles at the 2, its Aarons fault.
If Gandy and Riley false start twice a quarter, its Aaron\'s fault.
If Deuce gets hit 5 yards behind the line, its Aarons fault.
If Brooks gets sacked in 2 seconds, by 4 D-linemen at once, its Aarons fault.
If McCarthy calls an incredibly predictable gameplan, its Aarons fault.
Yea, I\'m starting to get it now.

So what exactly is your answer to Dilfer getting the credit for the Ravens SB?
Don\'t think I actually saw it in your reply. Reload and try again. Its not a hard answer.
Stomp once for yes, he got the credit
Stomp twice for no, he didn\'t get the credit.
I\'ll give you another hint, Dilfer didn\'t get the SB MVP.
BTW: Every time the Colts and Vikes play someone with a good defense in the playoffs, they get beat.
Sometimes what goes around...
I guess according to your logic if the Saints beat the Panthers this week, then Brooks will have won without Deuce, Stecker, and Horn.

Why do you come here?
 

It seems to me, that without forums like this, issues of performance and strategy cannot make their way (however circuitously) back to those who can make a difference. We collectively hone our shared experiences and insights into coherent and lucent remedies for existing and future problems. We are compelled to do this because we genetic mongrels incapable of accepting mediocrity from our clan. In a culture of \"how can I get gratification quickest,\" and in particular when the topic of the Saints, the most obvious solution is to ignore them and hope they\'ll go away. For those who chose to howl at the moon, we do so because we know that true gratification comes with the pain of achieving more than what is expected.

I ,for one, will continue to howl.

Why do you come here?
 

Danno, I would continue this, but I don\'t wanna get warned. It\'s easy to see you are the type who sees what you wanna see and makes out of things what you want. Here\'s an example of why there is no need for me to continue:

I said this is what the media does, and you tell me how I can\'t blame or credit a qb w/o looking at the whole picture. Huh? Did I not just say I saw that Eli wasn\'t the reason the Giants were losing and also say the Steelers won cause of Bettis and their defense? Did you somehow not see that? AGAIN< THE MEDIA PLACED THE BLAME ON QBS. Why is it I get the feeling you will never get it?

Here\'s another example:

All I said was, AB gets more blame cause he controls the fate of those around him, pointing to a couple of examples where his bad play effects others. Somehow you turned it into some other time debate you had with someone else about AB being the rpoblem for everything. I guess if you have no defense for a better argument, throw in someone else\'s bad argument and argue that one huh? I\'m a little beyond that trick.

So since your mind is made up, and not only will you read what you wanna but you will throw others arguments in and battle them as if they are mine, I see no reason to continue.

Oh, and any casual football fan knows Jake is playing without his 3 numbers one weapons on offense. I guess while you were sleeping through the sports shows you missed that too. He has been the whole season. Look it up on ESPN.

But wait, you said wins/losses are decided by defense. Is it playoff wins and losses now, cause you definitely didn\'t say that. So Miami has a high ranked D, shouldn\'t they automatically have a better record than the Colts, Vikes, or Pack according to your reasoning that defense wins? And how does Indy have a better record than Baltimore cause surely your logic can\'t be beat. And I need look no further than the Rams the year before the Ravens winning the Superbowl with one of the best offenses of all time. Then they went back to the Superbowl a year after the Ravens win, all offense again. Try again sport. Or maybe we should hand AJ Feeley and Kyle Boller their rings now cause good defense equals wins/losses. Oh that\'s right, they prob won\'t make the playoffs. Blows that one up don\'t it? Oh, and let\'s not forget the Redskins and their secodn ranked D. I am sure they will march right to, oh yeah 5 whole wins. Wow.

[Edited on 27/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

Why do you come here?
 

OK, so Brooks isn\'t the best QB ever. He\'s better than Hebert and that was the last QB we had that took us to the playoffs. Brooks has way more touchdowns than Hebert and won the Saints\' only playoff game ever.

Remember when we had the 2 Billy Joes? Wuerffel? I\'ll take AB over those guys any day. As far as the interception in the end zone, Kevin got his hand in and deflected the ball. If he hadn\'t laid out like that, it was a sure TD. It\'s a game of inches.

There aren\'t many great QB\'s around for us to go get. If so, Dallas and Arizona would already have them. AB is our QB and that\'s the way it is.

I think the problem we have is that AB is streaky and we run this \"Pass to set up the Run\" crap. AB would perform a lot better if we ran Deuce to set up the pass. Lombardi would blow a gasket if he saw our offensive philosophy. We\'re not the Rams.

Coach Fox said it best. There are 3 things that can happen on a pass and 2 of them are bad. When you run, you usually hold onto the ball. Duece is a hoss and he needs to be used more in the first quarter the way we used Ricky. It would take a lot of pressure off of AB so he could play within his game.

Hind sight is always 20-20, but we have to fight for and with the team we have. No one would have picked Carolina to go to the show last year so two tears in a bucket, f*** it!

Why do you come here?
 

Thats way cool.
I truly wish I could write like that.
I do enjoy it.
Welcome aboard xan.

Why do you come here?
 

I\'m howling with you xan. Someone at some point has to see the logic in what is being said about the team and bring about change. Medicority is far too easily accepted by too many of our bretheren.

Why do you come here?
 

I come to the board to read. I am not a heavy poster as my stats will tell, but I read these boards at least once a day to catch up on the latest Saint\'s news and have for almost 3 years since I found you guys. I find that people here are informative once you get past the internet ego and realize that everyone of you is just as biased and full of **** as I am. I post only when I feel I can contribute to a discussion more than just my personal pom-pom waving or revolting disdain for the topic.

I use this board to learn about my favorite team, so that in my line of work as a bartender, I can be informed and opinioned on every topic relating to the Saints, and B&G.net members do a great job of searching the depths of the internet for any news related to the Saints and posting them here, making this forum absolutely the best compilation of Saints information on the web.

Also, when someone disagrees with the way I feel and doesnt provide facts enough to convince me otherwise, I dismiss it and move on regardless of how many times they try to force feed it to me. Likewise, I will never take the bait of of someone trying to start an argument based on opinion and emotion, and not fact because it only leads to tempers and drama and dozens of worthless posts that we all have to scroll through to get any information that may be worthwhile.

Plus...its Christmas, dude. =)

Why do you come here?
 

Great Post!! All I can say is MYSELF!!!!

I come here to read what others feel about the team that I support and love. However, I do have an opinion about the personnel. Some of it is negative, because, like Xan, I know that they are not giving 110% to the effort.

Why do I come to this board. I post more here than anywhere, because I get respect, civil and intelligent answers, that are well thought out and cleverly put. Danno, you and whodi are two of my favorites. I like and respect what you both have to say. I like the two perspectives on the team, the coaches, and the personnel. I also like your responses to my posts.

This is a fact. This board is a more football oriented, mature, intelligent, and civil place than any other that I have seen. Maybe it\'s because Halo, Who Dat and Black and Blue keep the riff raff out. But I don\'t see any of the trash like AB DA MAN! AB SUCK! YOU SUCK! HIS STATS ARE GREAT;THEREFORE HE\'S GREAT! and all of the pap and stupidity that you see on the SR.Com boards or the old New Orleans Saints.Com board. It got so bad that they finally, douched in down the drain.

There is a tendency to dog Brooks. I believe that he deserves every thing that is dished out, because of the way that he has handled the situation. I, like you, believe that Brooks is at best, mediocre. He is horribly inconsistent. But, like it or not, the Head Coach and the Quarterback are the lightning rods of praise and criticism for whatever befalls their team.

MY TWO CENTS!!! :P

Why do you come here?
 

Ok Saintswhodi... My last reply...
I\'ll use your quotes.

\"Brooks is terrible, or do you watch the games?
Has an AB led team ever beaten a Delhomme led team?
The QB gets credit for wins, and blamed for losses (according to media outlets).
That is not my opinion, its the media\'s. Get it?
This team is winning DESPITE Aaron Brooks.\"

Sorry if I mistook that for blaming Aaron Brooks. What was I thinking?


Danno - Points out OTHER problems on offense in addition to a \"not-so-great, but not terrible\" Brooks
Saintswhodi - \"So an offense that goes 3 & out EVERY 1st quarter is fine with you?\"

Danno - Points out Dilfer didn\'t get credit for SB win.
Saintswhodi - \"But wait, you say wins/losses are decided by defense\"

I think its pretty clear who sees things the way they want to.

Why do you come here?
 

RDOX, thanks for the kind words.

Danno, :shrug: I know you may know what you meant, but the rest of us are at a loss. I\'ll just let it go since if I say the disagreement is going a certain way, you will do the same and not be original or respond to the post. Have a happy holiday. No need to argue. Your boy Brooks is leading us to the playoffs. :xxrotflmao:

Why do you come here?
 

This kinda reminds me of Ben Stiller in Dodgeball when he goes, \"I know that I am not as smart as you thought that I thought that you thought that I thought that I thought I was,\" and everyone just looks at him. lol Just struck me as similar, and just about as funny. Happy Christmahanakwanzaka to all!!!!!!!!

Why do you come here?
 

Happy holidays also. Play safe. I\'d be curious as to how many didn\'t understand my take. Maybe I don\'t ar-tic-u-late enough when I write. AB is not my boy, never said he was, I do want him replaced, among others.
I also think we have about a 1-in-3 shot of the SAINTS beating the PANTHERS.

Oooops, I said that was my last Oh, well.
Peace and remember, whether we agree or disagree, its all for Him.

Why do you come here?
 

its really as simple as this one player has never and will never win or loose games for a team by themselves. if they did detroit would have won the super bowl with barry. chicago got only one with walter. marino never won one. elway wouldnt have without davis. neither did jim kelly or warren moon but trent dilfer did. so did doug williams and joe theisman. then there was one other qb that won it for joe gibbs it was either jay shroeder or rypien. three super bowls with three different qb\'s.
the qb is not responsible for all of the wins or all of the losses. the strength you need at qb depends on the strength you have at other positions. what really is the most important position on any team is your o and d lines. brooks is not a great qb so far. he has the potential to be really good. he makes some bad plays that leaves you shaking your head at times. also i expected more out of him this year. our d has been the worst in the league this year. the worst. that is the problem with our team. but even with brooks not playing really well the last three weeks with better play from our d we were still able to win. if we can get the same play from the d this week and a strong game from brooks ( he is due isnt he) deuce and horn we have a chance to make the playoffs.
does that mean i think we will win i only hope we will because carolina is playing great ball right now. but we have the team to beat them if we play hard and smart.

Why do you come here?
 

Good to see you lads finally cooling down. :D Please don\'t make me thump ya! :rollinglaugh:

Why do you come here?
 

Do you guys really think I\'m going to let you have a pissing contest? You know me better than that. Chill out.

Why do you come here?
 

This appears to be the Brooks thread so I will throw in my two sense. Brooks is a top 15 QB on the planet. Would you rather have Vinny Testeverde? Kyle Boller? Whoever is starting for the 49ers this week? A.J. Feely? Trent Dilfer? Mark Bulger? Whoever the Browns are starting this week? Josh McCown? Kerry Collins?
Here is the list of starting QB\'s I would take over Brooks that aren\'t rookies:
Favre
P. Manning
D. Culpepper
C. Pennington
M. Vick
D. Brees
T. Green
J. Delhomme
B. Leftwich
C. Palmer
S. McNair
So that means I have Brooks as the 12th best QB on the planet.
Now listen, Brooks drives me nuts. I own a two story house and I watch all Saints games on the second floor which is not a good idea if you take my meaning. But when Brooks is hot he is smoking hot and when his line isn\'t playing the role of a sieve he is excellent. Does anyone remember the play he made against Tampa two weeks ago? 4th and twelve game and season on the line. 1st down Brooks! There is only one other QB in the league that makes that play and I think you know his name.
My major problem with Brooks is that he tends to make the worst decisions at the worst possible times. He doesn\'t pick up the blitz and hit his hot reads well at all. Basically, he is not a cerebral QB. But when the OLine plays well and his receivers are not dropping every other ball thrown to them Brooks is a top 5 QB in this league and probably the fourth most athletically gifted QB behind Vick, Culpepper, and McNabb.
I personally feel like we are going to beat the Panthers this week and make it to the playoffs. I wouldn\'t watch the game if I didn\'t feel this way. I also remember Brooks beating the unbeatable Rams in 2000 with no Ricky Williams and no Joe Horn in the playoffs.
Sunday will tell the tale.

[Edited on 28/12/2004 by stockman311]

[Edited on 28/12/2004 by stockman311]

Why do you come here?
 

And here all this time I thought it was Az Hakim\'s fumble and recovery by (Milne? Milner?) that won that game. Silly me.

Why do you come here?
 

please tell me you didn\'t really think that did you?
I hope you\'re kidding. I\'ve read enough of your posts to know you can\'t possibly be serious.

Why do you come here?
 

To quote you Danno: \"It takes 53 players to win in the NFL. One player can not win or lose a game.\"

I was being sarcastic in response to as if noone else suited up that day, as if we were stopping the Rams offense at all, and as if we all didn\'t think the Rams would have scored had we not had Az Hakim to thank for fumbling the ball.

So essentially it goes, if we win, Brooks beat someone, in this case the entire Rams team, but if we lose, it is terrible o-line dropped passes, yatta yatta, everything except Brooks. I get it. Brooks must be 34-0 since he became the starter while the team is 34-35 since he took over. Cool. No wonder he doesn\'t try to get better, he is undefeated. It\'s the team that loses.

[Edited on 28/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

Why do you come here?
 

WHEW, Sorry, but there are actually peole that believe that Milne is THE reson we won that game.

Why do you come here?
 

You don\'t think he is ONE of the reason we won that game? A fumble that allowed us to seal the game instead of giving the greatest show on turf(whom we had beaten twice during the regular season also I will say) another shot at scoring?

Why do you come here?
 

He helped seal the win with a great play. But you could also credit the punter just as well.
Haz instructed the punter to go high, because Az had a tendency to fumble, and it would give our guys a chance to surround him.
The punter (Brian Barker?) sailed a mile high beauty.
Milne was there, among others.

He contributed to the win with a great play, but when you build a 27 point lead on the greatest show on turf, there are many plays that contributed to that win. Its ridiculous to point to one fumble recovery and say thats why we won. But some will try.

If we hadn\'t scored our last TD we may also have lost. You could just as easily point to that being the game winner, since it provided the points necessary to win. Or even our 1st TD. Without our 1st TD we lose.

Milne made a great play that I will remember for a long long time. But it didn\'t win it for us. I guess everyone just assumes the Rams would have marched down the field and scored again. Is that a given? No. Sammy may have picked one off. He did have a knack for that.

Why do you come here?
 

I can\'t continue. You brought up Sammy, a player not good enough for Haslett cause of his lack of \"speed\" yet he leads all NFL safeties in INTs the last 4 years. I can\'t form words to express the horror of the re-opening of that wound.

But I will agree that many plays led to the win, and Milne\'s was one of them.

Why do you come here?
 

I admit that I post more during the season when the team is losing rather than winning. It\'s probably because I am pleased that they are getting the job done after wins. However, I think this board goes bizerk after losses becuase of human nature. We tend to want to criticize things that we think could be done better. Plus, we want to tell people about it more so when we\'re upset about it than when we are happy. Thus, people come on here after losses and vent.

As for myself, I come to this site almost daily - win or lose - I just post more after a loss. But, I tend to post more in the offseason because that is a time of exploring options and giving opinions on those options. I guess I find that more interesting to talk about than wins or losses even though the offseason is amazingly boring.

Why do you come here?
 

I\'m not sure what I\'m stepping into here ,but........

Danno --

I think you know as well as I what goes on. Some folks have their mind made up that certain players and coaches are the problem. Because of that they don\'t like to be proven wrong.

You remember some folks defending Kyle Turley and bashing Haz because he shipped him off. Well.... it seems Turley was threatening Martz life and got escorted off by security.

Turley is just one example of how some fans let their mouth overload their brain. They think they know exactly what\'s going on but the truth is they would be better off watching the games and let the coaches coach and the GM do what they think is best for the team.

To hear some fans, you\'d think they had run an NFL team before.

One last thing... I\'m not talking to everyone here, but you know who you are..... Danno is exactly right.... When we win the bash-crew goes MIA and resurface when it fits into what they are preaching...

Lastly.... It took me a while but I like the folks who criticize everything. It makes things interesting. As long as it\'s done in a civil manner.... Take WhoDat for example. He likes to criticize and he strongly believes what he\'s saying. But he does it civil.... At least with me... You just have to fight fire with fire... ;)

Take it from me... This is a great place to agree and disagree... But if you takes things personal it can get out of hand...

Why do you come here?
 

I am going to have to use this as a classic example of how things work both ways, and how one side is as guilty as the other.

Here\'s the classic \"they are wrong and I am right\" post disguised in a \"it\'s not me\" statement. It\'s \"those people\"...

...just as much as \"some people\" have made up their minds that certain players and coaches are \"the problem\", \"some other people\" have made their minds that certain coaches and players are beyond reproach.

... and I\'ll add, no one \"likes\" to be proven wrong... some people are more gracious than others when proven wrong, but that doesn\'t mean they \"like\" it. I think posters, specially the ones who have been here the longest, to recognize when acrtual debate has been exhausted and take the high road, as to not encourage such behavior. And I am not talking about the random sarcasm or friendly ribbing...

Why do you come here?
 

Another strong post Tobias. It appears to be that if you disagree with someone else\'s opinion, you are trying to prove them wrong and that brings with it a line drawn between two sides. The challenge is to be able to disagree with respect towrds the other person\'s opinion. But there are some who are of the idea that they have fought their battles here so \"their side\" is right and if you disagree you have an agenda. The problem comes in exactly as you said:

This seems to be the biggest bone around here. Everyone has people they want to point the finger at, no matter what the stats say or the wins and losses say. No matter if player A is bad, it\'s not his fault. No matter if coach B has sunk us the last 4 years, we have a mediocre shot at being a mediocre team in the mediocre NFC making the mediocre NFC playoffs, so he must be getting better. No matter if player B is too dumb to have the full confidence of the coaches, other units are playing over their heads so we can win so this player has to be good too. It\'s the basis for most arguments on here. I don\'t consider myself right or wrong, I consider myself to have an opinion that I back up with fact and what I see with my own two eyes. If someone shows me something different, great. But blind allegiances to players and coaches not pulling their weight will keep us from ever taking the next big step.

Why do you come here?
 

Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinions !!

I\'m a Saints fan. I\'ve had my mind made up that Haslett needed to be fired. But, you know what.. I\'m not so sure anymore.

I\'ve heard folks say McNabb wasn\'t an accurate passer before. But seems like he\'s been pretty damn accurate this year. Some folks were wrong... Go figure, huh?

Why do you come here?
 

Hey Gumbo, maybe you heard of this guy Owens? No? Well let me tell you, pro bowl receiver. Huge playmaker. Eagles wide receivers had 2 tds all this year, outside of this Owens fella. He has 14. Last year Eagles receivers had 5 tds all year, this Owens fella had 9 tds and 1100 yards for a terrible San Fran team. I think he might be pretty good.

Also, let me tell you bout this Brooks fella. 78 passer rating. Has a pro bowl receiver AND running back. Not smart enough for the coaches to allow him to call audibles. Throws red zone INTs on 1-3 step drops with no pressure. Now since some may be \"wrong\" about him, do you think the Eagles will trade McNabb straight up for him? They both have pro bowl receivers, maybe Andy Reid will bite. No?

Why do you come here?
 

saintswhodi--

You, my friend, are pushing something I ain\'t buying. And believe me when I tell you I know what you want to convinence people of.

First, who\'s this probowl runningback you speak of? Deuce? That was last year, fella... Deuce hasn\'t done much at all this year. But, I don\'t blame Deuce like some folks blame Brooks.

I actually have 2 good eyes and I put them to use every game. And .... this is important here.... THIS IS A TEAM GAME. It ain\'t tennis...

You want to bash Haz and Brooks. Go right ahead. Doesn\'t bother me. I\'m more interested in this little thing we\'re involved in called a playoff run.

I\'m worried about our O-line and our defense. Those 2 things are what has cost us more games than anything. Disagree?