Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

A thought just occurred to me. Is there a correlation between PT's and KR's injuries and the offense we saw Sunday night. Yes, the line was opening holes. Yes, Ingram was hitting the hole, avoiding tackles and flat running over the GB D.

All of that said, could it be with Ingram on the field for more snaps, the Saints offense is just less predictable? When combined with Ingram's performance, opponents are forced to respect the run on passing downs and the pass on run downs. Play action holds line backers, opening up middle routes and buying a few more seconds for Brees to hit the deep route.

The opposition no longer calls the D based upon the offensive package because the package doesn't change as much.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Everybody runs over the GB D including us. MI must have ran 90% of those right up the gut, about as predictable as it could get. I here what you're saying but against a good D, it will be difficult to run no matter what we do.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

I completely agree with your assertion.

Having a RBBC system can be good if the RBs are similar, however our RBs are not similar at all. Ingram is well rounded but the defense can tell our general play calls by who is in the backfield. How do i know this? Because I can guess our play calls by looking at who is our RB, and I don't get paid to watch game tape.

Is GB bad at stopping the run? Yes, but our play-calling was as unpredictable as it has been for the last few years.

I am no fan of the RBBC, and we have only recently started to do it. You could say it started with Deuce and Reggie but even then Deuce was the main guy.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

They're dating.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

I just hope MI can rack up another 200 yards tonight and get a couple of TD's to go with those yards.

We need to get this losing road game monkey off our backs and get a good, solid win. We will be top of the NFC South if we do, what more incentive does this team need than that!!!!

GEAUX SAINTS!!!!!!

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Yes. It's been one of those love - hate affairs from several years.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

It's complicated

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Disagree with the assertion that our running backs are all different. They're not that different, they've just been pigeonholed into their roles. We've seen PT run big gainers up the middle how many times over his career. Robinson and Ingram look a lot different physically but basically have the same kind of game.

The RBBC works. It gives you depth and extends careers. Our problem is SP has too many tendencies which have revealed themselves over a number of years. Hopefully this situation right now will make Payton realize how much he has misused all of these RB's.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Name a team that is successful with the RBBC excluding us.

RBs need to get a feel for the game. Having 2 RBs is good to keep both fresh but we use 4 and they all do different things. PT is the only one that is actually used in every facet of the game. Thats not to say these guys can't do it all, but if your only using them for certain things then why does it matter.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Carolina was very successful with Williams/Stewart/Tolbert for several years until they got old and injury prone. Bengals are doing well right now with Bernard and Hill. Patriots get a ton of production out of Ridley/Vereen and whoever else they plug in there. Colts are getting a lot out of Bradshaw/Richardson/Herron. Browns did well with Tate/West/Crowell until their o-line got messed up. Etc.

And you might notice that pretty much every big time college program plays 3 and 4 guys. In fact I would say the number of NFL teams which does not regularly use at least a two-back rotation is very small. and many are using 3 these days.

We take it to the extreme with 4, but really if you think about it the Cadet/Sproles/Bush spot in the rotation really isn't a running back, it's more a receiver position.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching Ingram run. I just don't want him getting 30 carries every game. Haslett ran Deuce into the ground with that crap and probably took 4-5 years off his career. If SP had done the same thing with, say, PT, he'd probably be washed up by now too.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Somebody will pay him more than the Saints. It is what it is. I hope it's a HUGE contract after leading the Saints to another Super Bowl win. :)

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

I'm glad to see Ingram running better, but to be honest I think it says more about what we need to do philosophy wise than it does about Ingram, himself. I've heard over and over from people who have defended him when he was struggling who said "he just needs more carries to get going". There is no statistic to support that statement. He runs the same early as he does late. Whether it be a good or bad performance, he pretty much goes as the line goes.

I will give him due credit for being able to run through holes more decisively now than he ever has before, as he was notorious for running blind and being too hesitant before. But when this line plays as it has recently, it doesn't matter who's back there at RB. If you give Khiry 30 carries, he's gonna run wild too. But he's hurt, and Pierre is hurt, and so Ingram is getting his chance. Good for him that he's, so far, making the most of it.

The bottom line here, in my opinion, is that if we're having this much success as a team, by running more and controlling the clock, then we should not change a thing. Regardless of who our back is, just keep running and maintain this balance.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

And you know what, why is dating a bad thing. When your dating as a guy... you do every thing you can to impress your mate into marriage... and that is exactly what Ingram is doing.

- STAYING HEALTHY ( Still and ongoing issue ) Hand injury... now shoulder troubles....

- being more decisive
- not being tackled as much by the first tackler
- holding on to the ball
- finishing runs

All the things people like me held him accountable for when we were critical of him.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

our system always puzzled me. i understand down situations and all but the swapping by plays vs series really never made sense to me.

what happened to going with the hot hand?

if mark can ever shake the injury bug hmmm. with his style of running that might be hard to do.

many have said he need to get in a grove for years now

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Like I mentioned a couple days ago, Ingram wears down defenses

There was a point in the game where he was only getting gains of 3 or 4 yards, but credit SP for sticking to the run, as soon as gap opened up Ingram exploited it for a bigger gain

Ingram and the O line really seem to be on their game.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

And thats probably why Ingram didn't want to come out. He could tell they were wearing down and he was about to bust a big one.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Ingrams in great shape, running hard 30 times is hard to do. I like the fact he is getting a lot of carries but I think over 30 would be to many. 20 to 25 is plenty being spelled out for a breather from time to time. I still say if we keep feeding him he breaks a 1000 this year.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Ingram is playing for that next contract.

Somehow I don't think that will be with the Saints.

But that's talk for the offseason... We have a division to win!

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

If we loose Ingram we are going to really have to look at a RB in the draft.
Robinson looks good but is still very much work in progress with under 120 carries, Needs to improve keeping hold off the ball too,2 lost fumbles in them carries.

Cadet just isnt good enough as a change of pace back or returner

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

I want Ingram back and I really wish we picked up the option but I understand why we didn't.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

So the only current examples are ranked in the bottom of the league...

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

The difference with a lot of them suggestions and the Saints of the last few years is that in most them options players can receive and rush. When Ingram came on the field the whole world new it was a run same with Sproles everyone called a screen or him going into the slot. The only time yeams had to think was when PT came on as he could do both well.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

My point, which really wasn't clear, was that it's not how many RBs we have or the number of touches they each get. I was that SP seemed to have player packages for situations and specific plays and play calling was getting predictable. Yes, if Brees has plenty of time or the O line blows the D off the ball, then it doesn't matter, but the job gets easier if the D is confused.

With KR and PT injured SP was forced to use Ingram in situations and play calls where he typically wouldn't. This makes our offense less predicable and much more dangerous.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

Don't forget picking up blitzes. I think that this was one reason why he wasn't getting on the field in passing situations. He has done a reasonably good job in that area the last two games.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

I do agree. Our personnel dictated many of our situational play calls. We had guys that were unique to pass play blocking and screen options and guys who were unique to run plays. In the past Ingram only came in to run the ball and rarely stayed in for the pass calls. Same with Robinson as he was not a satisfactory blocker in those packages. Payton became predictable by personnel and formation. Having only one back for the majority of the offense does not allow defenses to key based on personnel the way they could.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

I hope he comes back, next year.

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

How I see it is Ingram may be the best back in the league. I think he's faster and bigger than Demarco Murray. He carried Bama to a title. Why not us?

Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship
 

lets give some loving to the OL here. 3 years ago the saints started the shift to a zone blocking scheme. never easy to do such a thing to an OL. Well this is the first time i have seen the saints run mostly Zone blocking. It took time but this unit has gelled in the run game finally. That is what Mark ran in at Bama.

now if the pass protection keeps improving we may just have the start to something special up front

hats off to the OL

Now if Mark comes back or not. If not lets all hope the saints learned their lesson and replace him with a back that fits our scheme of blocking.