Is it really our offensive line?
 

Or are we just playing faster defenses in the league now that can get to the qb and Bree can no longer win against that? I looked at Bree hardest games here.

@Atlanta........mostly Ingram's game, which helped Brees some. But sometimes it seemed Bree was off. However it was the falcons.

@Cleveland....Brees didn't struggle once he shrugged off the early rust, however he had to throw to Graham who constantly beat Haden. The drive stalling in the last possession was basically not running the ball continually.

Minnesota.......Believe it or not this team is one of the better secondaries that simply get worn down over the long run because of a bad offense. This was also where we played without Ingram and played a rather sloppy game. However Minnesota had Barr(need more proof SJB can be good? UCLA is another defense school) as well but even in the old days Brees and offense did struggle against strong secondaries(redskins and bills games in 09 are examples).

Dallas.......they have simply been pass rushing the entire season and Cooks got beat a CB who could beat him.

Tampa Bay..........Lovie's defense, a team who was a good defense who had problems on offense. They only play out of synch out of division against seasoned teams like the ravens(I'm betting that was Steve Smith though), but Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, even Green Bay look how they did against them.

Detroit.............They are a top five defense for a reason, they have strong pass rushers and a good secondary along with a good run defense. The only way you beat them is to throw deep and hope the target is not covered or at home where the secondary can be sloppy. We had the misfortune of playing them in Detroit.

Green Bay...struggled early but exploded late against a defense that is one of the worst in the league. What make GB so great is playing in a division with Cutler and Minnesota and having playmakers bail Rodgers out against the likes of NE and Detroit and a versatile RB in Lacy. Is this what we should be like?

Carolina....Three days rest is why we looked as good as we did against them.

SF..........Another disciplined defense, but we tried to beat them and even came back against them. But SF also has no elite receivers that can excel consistently in that system. They have a aging back. the best olines are going to play as good as we did against them.

Cincinatti....A perfect example of a pass rushing team with great secondaries, this has always been Brees' weakness. Yet teams like the pats and colts looked great against them. However colts have a younger oline and Brady simply targeted who the bengals did not focus on....their tightend they got from the bucs. Gronk did the rest. If Graham was healthy could he have played better against them? Cooks was way overmatched.

Baltimore.......We really did not struggle much offensively but then again we did. Baltimore has a disciplined defense though, well coached, and had rest. Also, we started reeling without Cooks.

Pittsburgh.......A team who did not have consistent secondary and when they don't have to focus on just one player they can't stop a offense. Also, maybe our defense should get some credit here holding them most of the game. The colts played great against them as well beyond the first half but steelers put up 40 points on them. They beat teams who can't consistently beat them due to just not having it on offense(bengals, ravens, texans, jaguars, titans, chiefs, panthers). But it depended on the other team's defense as well.

Carolina.....this game where panthers got at least 7 days rest and our oline played bad. But the secondary was flying all over our player and the weakness panthers have, was not our strength because Graham has been hurt.

Chicago........We beat them because they quit. Also, Cutler.

Atlanta...........We have to address this to being without Armstead, the one game we can make an excuse for bad oline being the reason. But Atlanta also wanted to avenge week 1 last season.

Tampa Bay......I think we saw what happened.

Is it really the oline I ask? or do we need to have our playmakers fully healthy? Stills is he really the answer? He does not deal with top corners which is why he looked good at times. Toon? Also exposed against Atlanta and Carolina. Yet looked great against a shaky Pittsburgh. Maybe we still need to get a oline but we better be able to get one more receiver that can help with those crucial situations. I'm leaning towards the fact our oline did not have to play this back in the day as much as they do now.

Next year we actually do not have to worry about this. We have eagles, giants, colts, titans on the schedule and also get a interesting defense in Jacksonville. Dallas we probably want revenge on, however it's Washington I am most concerned about because they have been our one true nightmare in that division. Also Houston, but the way to beat them is running the ball and getting after their offense. It won't be a high scoring game and will be a ugly game we will have to win. Just getting a few more easier games is all we need to help us. But I think against those other defenses, we really will need more than oline.

We made mistakes in a couple of our easier games and then sucked against legit pass rushers.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

According to NFL.com we are the 11th best O-Line, that's sacks given up(30)... 17th in QB hits though(80)...

That's a problem in my eyes...

Drew didn't have the room to step up with the interior of the line struggling so bad...

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Yeah maybe the new olinemen are as fast as the pass rushers now. But you see what's going on with Andrew Luck now? He is winning this game in a slugfest and capitalizing off a qb who simply cannot win when defenses give him what his defense gives opposing qbs(Dalton). Thats what separates an elite qb from a mediocre one. Brees needs that drive to win like Luck.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Upgrade the interior and we're top 3 again.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Jahri Evans allowed the most QB pressures in the league by an interior lineman, someone posted the tweet a couple weeks ago

Never liked Grubbs, it was purely a signing to make Brees feel better about him costing us Carl Nicks. Three interior guys are our weakness right now.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Evens and Grubs are up there in age but not done just yet. putting a young center between the two that is still learning the fine points of the position does not help matters. An UDFA to boot. Not saying hr can not develop just that he has a lot more to learn. the 3 positions have to work as one, pushing and passing of defenders while not opening up gaps. it is a complicated dance of sort. this is what i have noticed with the 3 positions. they are out of sync.

can the saints afford to wait and play free agency game to rebuild the OL or do they need to start now and start with drafting players? combination of both is need not only because of age but because of cap issues.

so yes the OL is an issue. the defense will never get us back to a super bowl.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

The Saints biggest problems are on the offensive line.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Goodwin was washed up from day one, it seems. Lelito would've been a much better option and the line as a whole played much better with him in there. Evans IMO has been worn down by his chronic back issues.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

To much pressure up the middle all season,yes fix the line and then you have your answer.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

To answer your question, YES. If they're able to replace Evans and Grubs this will be a great off season

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Stanley Jean Baptiste?!? Thought he played at Nebraska?!?

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Yes, but both schools are known for defense.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

SJB.... why did we draft him again.. oh a project pick.... in the second round... hmmm great pick...

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Yes is the answer. Next question...

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Yes. The O-line was good at times, especially in the run game but gave up way to much pressure in the middle.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Goodwin was a shell of his former self and just should not have been starting. Evans and Grubbs simply aren't worth the money. They should try and replace Strief as a starter but keep him as depth at both tackle spots.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

I thought Goodwin started the season OK,but after picking up his first I jury he seemed to constantly be niggled by injuries and that's no surprise at his age. I do wonder if that is why Evans and Grubbs struggled. I like what I saw from Lelito but was he kept out the side because he wasn't good enough or was it the worry of injuries and lack of depth at guard that coach kept him on the sidelines as he could slot in anywhere on the interior.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Brees ability to scramble, and try to get rid of the ball (INTs), made the line look better than it was and him worse than he was.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

You guys must have taken a collective holiday vacation to Colorado in the last few weeks to think that Evans needs to go.

Coaches and Players don't vote you to the Pro Bowl if you're having as bad of a season as you guys claim his was this year. And 1/3 of the votes by fans doesn't carry him to the PB either.

He is the next Saints player after Brees in my estimation to make the HOF (And I don't mean the Saints' HOF) and has a couple good years left in him.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

As a general point to the first sentence of the original post, YES the Saints are slow...if you flip around the dial and watch any game by any other competitive or good teams around the league, you will see with your own two eyes how SLOW the Saints really are. Cooks and Saunders are probably the only actual FAST people we have on the entire roster! Seattle's defense has DB's and LB's swarming and flying to the ball...look at other teams' special teams kicking and coverage units, they are burning down the field, arriving just as the ball does.....wide receivers for Atlanta run screaming down the field, sprinting themselves open, and the running backs for Green Bay EXPLODE through the line into the second level so fast you can barely see them....the Saints by comparison are old, they look old and slow and kinda tired.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Yes it really is the O-Line.

Our game begins and ends with offense, and mostly passing.
If Drew is on his arse, we're in trouble. We really cant do anything else.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

I would say YES

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

i do not care about defenses as bad as ours when i look at the OL. top 10 defenses only. yes the OL needs to be addressed. RT is my first concern.

this is a great year for RT, RT that also can play oG which is an area of concern cap and age wise.

center is still up in the air, i am not ready to say we have top center that can handle the better NT in the NFL. well not just yet

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Yes. He was hurried as much as any QB in the league. When you are constantly hurried mistakes happen, interceptions are thrown, bad decisions are made.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Brees is one of the best if not the best I've ever seen with pocket awareness and being able to shift around. He doesn't have speed, but you stick a decent O-Line in front of him I think he'd rarely get sacked. This year it looked as though he had constant pressure in his face. He couldn't step up in the pocket and many boneheaded plays were made as a result. There is obviously a drop off on the O-Line. Could Brees be in decline too... I dunno tbh, but I still feel as though we are solid at QB position until I see Brees struggling with a clean pocket.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

He had a pretty clean pocket on some of those picks.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

People are so quick to want to move on from Drew...

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

We need a mean, nasty center. Goes back to Kreutz.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Could it also be that Drew as the leader of the team starts to force some things trying to make plays? I know I would when he undoubtedly had no confidence that the defense could force a punt on the next drive...

He had to feel like he needed to score with every possession...

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

I agree, but we expect the offense to score on most possessions. That's nothing new. Having a bad defense is nothing new. It never used to matter before.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

We've never had a defense as bad as last year or the "suspensions" year either... Both years that fans were calling for Drew's head... :rolleyes: Drew was pressing the issue so to speak, because the defense was non-existent...

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

In all honesty that doesn't have to matter. As a quarterback you have a timer in your head. When you are repeatedly being prevented from moving up in the pocket or your time in the pocket is considerably shortened.... the repetitions of that will do weird things to the head of a quarterback. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to let Brees off the hook, because he may very well be in decline; but I think it'd be highly irrational to think its time to move on when we have no idea how he would play with good O-line play. That is just really jumping the gun.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

I dont have any stats to back this up but there does seem to be a direct corolation between our defense sucking and Drew throwing more picks. I remember the interceptions where pretty bad when Spags was there too. I think he does try and take on too much sometimes because lets face it, with the way our defense played Drew was the only reason we were not a 2 or 3 win team. In spite of the interceptions.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

You are absolutely correct.

When your D sucks... your O has to take more chances than they should have to try and score and force the ball in places you really don't want to put it. A good D takes the pressure off the O.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

I feel confident in my assertion that anyone who thinks our offense was as bad as our defense is a bonafide football moron.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Numbers don't lie

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

The problem is a defense is going to regres every other year because we are in a age where teams study up and figure out top defenses the prior year. Also, we don't have the players to play hard every single year with no regression. Injuries happen all the time. Brees was still getting a lot of flack in 2013 because of his road games. I have no idea who will win the south next year but I do know with our division now it is not gonna be easy to go 13-3 unless we go 10-0 out of the division.

The point was made in this thread though that Brees needs to be buttered up on defense. That he is becoming a diva and needs a knock you out defense to get him pumped.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

Honestly,it always mattered to me. Even when our offense was putting up big points,I would still get irritated watching our D take the field most of the time. I love an aggressive,well disciplined,we'll coached defense.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

I'm not buying that line at all.

All he really needs is a competent defense.

Re: Is it really our offensive line?
 

I don't think it's time to move on, but I do think he's on the decline and we should be looking at the person who'll be taking his place. The only time Brees never deserves blame is in the playoffs. He's always flawless then. But this year he made some crazy decisions. And pressing isn't an excuse to me. He's a top 5 QB of all time. He knows better.