Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

This morning we bring to you Part 3 of our mini-series “Fixing the Saints” for the upcoming 2015 season; in which we have looked at the “gaping holes” on the roster that led directly to their disappointing 7-9 finish in 2014.

After looking at the Linebacker unit in Part 1 and the Offensive Line in Part 2, today’s article will look at the position that is one of the “pet peeves” of the entire Who Dat Nation: the #2 CB spot opposite of outstanding All-Pro caliber (though he’s never been chosen as such) cornerback and New Orleans native Keenan Lewis.

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Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Kareem Jackson is about the only thing going for the Texans secondary. i see them keep him around.

Byron Maxwell ? biding war? but the attitude from the sea hawks might be welcomed

Trae Waynes p really like but med evals have to ve good. mult leg injuries

Marcus Peters? bad boy Marcus hmm there in the second? take him lets see if the saints we serious about discipline

Kevin Johnson Wake Forest is the one i am still keeping an eye on

Quinten Rollins Miami of Ohio? want another project? anyone?

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

One of the more overused phrases in the game's lexicon, there are maybe one, two "shutdown" cornerbacks in the league - just a rare athlete...

With other salary commitments, we just need really solid cornerbacks who will force passers to always be 'perfect' with throws...

Simply, need a solid cornerback that can pass defend, open-field tackle and actually catch the ball when opportunities arise...

We need a base pass rush, get a base package honest pass rush and lessen the burden on the secondary...

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

The Jags have 2 CB that are FA that are coming into their own, I wouldn't mind getting them, young and up-coming, good hands with speed.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Exactly. "Shut down" corners are damn near impossible to find. These young guys have good technique, speed and very physical.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT.

You have a "shutdown" corner -- people just throw to the other side. All day. See exhibit #24, Corey White.

I remember this vividly like it was yesterday. Somebody (I want to say it was AsylumGuido, but I can't be sure) was talking about this at the very end of the 2009 season or in the playoffs.

Basically, somebody posted a stat at the end of 2009, that said that: when Porter and Greer were on the field at the same time, in 2009, they played at Revis-like levels. BOTH of them out there, it was absolute shut down city, almost nothing got by. When one of them was injured or out, it dropped off pretty dramatically (such as the play in the Super Bowl when Usama Young came in for one play, and Manning burned him immediately for a TD). But for that period of time, Greer and Porter together on the field were essentially "shutdown" level, while neither of them individually had that same level of impressive stats or name-dropping legendary shutdown status. But the two of them together, that year, were elite and every bit as good or better than Revis at his best, by himself....this is really what we all cheered for so much that year.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

all we need is a solid #2 man cover corner. that is it. shut it down 75% of the works. right now we are at .. what ... 2% ?

opps had to edit 75% is a bit much that would require a pass rush which we did not have last year so lets go 50%

if the safeties can be freed up 50% of the time to support the run and cover the middle of the field this defense would greatly improve to say mid 20s at best. at the least get out of the 30s :)

Besides there is not a shut down corner on the FA list. Revis is the only one out there if the Pats do not keep him that fits that description.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Keenan, as much as I love him, is definitely not a "shut down corner." Not many of those exist. Keenan is a bump-and-run physical guy. He's more like a Ronde Barber or Mike McKenzie type of player.

IMO what we need is a pure man cover cover. Something like Tracy Porter when he first came into the league. Doesn't have to be a "great" corner but somebody who can give you a different look on the other side of the field. P-Rob is this type of player but obviously had a rough season. We need somebody like that who can run with anybody on the field and do it all day long.

Exactly. We were depending on White or Robinson to be that guy, and it didn't work out. But that doesn't mean it can't work out next year with some other player (or maybe even Baptiste).

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

In the regular season, Greer and Porter only allowed 1 TD against them combined

That was a play when Roddy white pushed Greer to the ground and PI wasn't called

Those two allowed our D to be massively flexible in blitzing.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

I agree with the premise, but it's important to remember the 2009 defense wasn't very good at a lot of things. The 09 defense ranked poorly in YPG and were easily passed on, there were 2 areas they excelled; turnovers and sacks.

Saying Greer and Porter were on Revis level even as a tandem isn't accurate.

We don't need a shut-down CB, we need a decent #2 that can hold his own 90% of the time.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

People remember that team wrongly a lot. The 2009 defense was actually ranked top 10 most of the season. Didn't start falling until Greer, Porter, Gay and Fujita injuries. Even as late in the season as the Redskins game they were still in the low teens. And there was a whole lot of garbage time for our defense that year too, playing with a big lead quite often.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

20th in points allowed.

25th in yards allowed.

You're right people do remember that team wrongly a lot...

Porter missed 4 games.
Greer missed 8 games.
Gay missed 6 games.

Injuries happen to every team, it's not an excuse.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

The point was to illustrate the effectiveness of the Porter/Greer combo. When they were both healthy, the defense was easily a top-10 unit. That's the only point I was trying to make -

In the regards that having two very good but maybe not great corners is a solid foundation for a seconary. To say they "didn't do much well" is simply not true especially when they held maybe the greatest pure passing QB in NFL history to 17 points in a Super Bowl.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

In '09, we also had a good secondary coach. The main thing I remember about Porter besides the great SB play was his atrocious tackling.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Good luck finding a shut down corner, just give me someone who does his job and doesn't get burned on a regular basis. A pass rush would help too

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Not saying they weren't good, but as a counter point to what an earlier poster said they were not 'shut down' CBs even as a tandem.

Also, we all know Manning chokes in the playoffs. Well, at least the one named Payton does lol.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

You're not giving him enough credit. He was a really good cover corner even as a rookie the year before. He was just too injury prone to keep it up long-term but even now he's still a pretty decent nickel.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Agreed.

First game of his rookie season was against the bucs and he ended the game with 3 pass breakups, very nearly turned into interceptions.

I'd swap P-rob for Tracy Porter in a heart beat. Porters play started to tail off a little in 2010-2011 but he's never been as bad as P-rob is consistently every season.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Your probably right and I would like to give credit where credit is due,but when I think back on his career here, his piss-pour tackling stands out to me.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

While I realize that a top CB is a very big need for us, We just cannot pass on a top OLB talent in the first round. Our LB's have been garbage for years and we MUST fix that to have any hope of going deep into the playoffs. If it were me, I'd go OLB, ILB, CB, OL, OL, DE, TE, but hey, that's just me, but if you look at it, our tackling is pathetic and that's on the LB's and if we can't stop the run our D is gonna be on the field a long time if we stop the run we force the pass and they we can get after the QB and and get our secondary in gear to work as a unit and not a bunch of individuals.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

rob and his defense will never win a super bowl
SP and the offense will again

offense first defense second

top 25 defense is all we need. no reason this group could not have done it last year. coach and scheme but in no way should defense have priority.

windows closing on Drew so is our chances

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

I disagree that all we need is a top 25 defense. Last season we had a top 5 D and we still couldn't get it done. Both sides of the ball have to be really good or one side has to be extremely dominant. Team chemistry will go a long way too.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Plus you have to have a degree of luck on your side as well

I can't count the amount of times the ball bounced our way in 2009, even at the most unpredictable times!

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Whoever it is I hope they can tackle. Rob can't tackle himself.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

I have read all 3 parts of Fixing the Saints and could not agree more. If there is a way for you to send this on to Sean Payton Please do so.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

I remember him reading plays and studying the quarterback he's facing....getting game saving interceptions at clutch moments in important games

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

You do the work the first few games then the luck comes, it happens to all the teams at that point unless you have Lindley at qb. We did not have luck the first five games we went out there and took them, then came the luck the next several weeks until week 11. We dominated weeks 11 and 12 before faltering down the stretch(but that was due to Greer being out). Another reason for a lot of the luck down the stretch was Robert Meachem mid-late 2009.

Even in 2011, we escaped Tennessee.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

I'd agree but I'd still say we had quite a bit of luck during the first six games also, no matter how dominant we played

Versus the giants in week 5, both teams were 5-0

Brees threw to a double covered lance Moore on third down, the defender had his hands on the ball batted it up in the air and lance pulled it in for a first down - drew gets picked for that in 2014

Week 6 vs miami - receiver had beat tracy porter pretty easily when the ball arrived but he misjudged the catch and batted that straight to Darren Sharper who ran it back for a TD

Yeah I remember that 2011 titans game - one of the few games that Jo-lonn Dunbar sealed for us with a game ending play.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

saints could have had at least 3 additional wins 10 - 6 record easy. with a top 25 defense and been in every game during the season.

so it would work and keep the lofty goals of Robs back

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Even if we had a top 25 D,we still had a good-not great- offense that was turnover happy which basically proves my point. I think Green Bay had a last place defense when they won the SB,but their offense was dominant. Even if we would have had a 10-6 record, it wouldn't matter....this team was in no shape to do anything in the playoffs.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

Toler from Indy would be nice.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

We don't need shutdown corner. We need solid corner opposite Lewis. White, Prob, Dixon are not solid corners. (there is hope for dixon) Way too many ups and downs.

Give me smart player who understands the game. I'm tired of players who make one good play then one "WTF just happened" play.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

I would like to get Maxwell from the hawks. He's tall and only 27.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

There are several mid to upper tier prospects who look like a good fit. I'm still gathering info before I determine who I like best.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

i agree. that is why i would have offense on the top of my off season wish list then defense. offense requires fewer pieces. were as the defense might require a few years to repair, defensive wild card is can they get their heads screwed of straight so we have a better idea of what we need.

Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner
 

As far as offense goes,the O line is really the main concern and would only take one good player to improve it. The defense on the other hand needs more help but is not as bad as some make it out to be. On D, our pressing needs are LB and CB with some depth for the D line. I don't think we're that far off from being a good defense. If we could get the center from Oakland and a good CB in FA, then focus on LB's and O line in the higher rounds while getting depth ( or a possible starter) in the lower rounds. I say Sherff or Collins in the first but if both gone,trade down ( if possible)and grab McKinney or Perryman and go for O line in the second.