Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner

01-07-2015, 10:36 PM

This morning we bring to you Part 3 of our mini-series “Fixing the Saints” for the upcoming 2015 season; in which we have looked at the “gaping holes” on the roster that led directly to their disappointing 7-9 finish in 2014.

After looking at the Linebacker unit in Part 1 and the Offensive Line in Part 2, today’s article will look at the position that is one of the “pet peeves” of the entire Who Dat Nation: the #2 CB spot opposite of outstanding All-Pro caliber (though he’s never been chosen as such) cornerback and New Orleans native Keenan Lewis.

Read more: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner

hagan714 · 01-08-2015, 05:47 AM

Kareem Jackson is about the only thing going for the Texans secondary. i see them keep him around.

Byron Maxwell ? biding war? but the attitude from the sea hawks might be welcomed

Trae Waynes p really like but med evals have to ve good. mult leg injuries

Marcus Peters? bad boy Marcus hmm there in the second? take him lets see if the saints we serious about discipline

Kevin Johnson Wake Forest is the one i am still keeping an eye on

Quinten Rollins Miami of Ohio? want another project? anyone?

jeanpierre · 01-08-2015, 07:19 AM

One of the more overused phrases in the game's lexicon, there are maybe one, two "shutdown" cornerbacks in the league - just a rare athlete...

With other salary commitments, we just need really solid cornerbacks who will force passers to always be 'perfect' with throws...

Simply, need a solid cornerback that can pass defend, open-field tackle and actually catch the ball when opportunities arise...

We need a base pass rush, get a base package honest pass rush and lessen the burden on the secondary...

halloween 65 · 01-08-2015, 08:09 AM

The Jags have 2 CB that are FA that are coming into their own, I wouldn't mind getting them, young and up-coming, good hands with speed.

K Major · 01-08-2015, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

The Jags have 2 CB that are FA that are coming into their own, I wouldn't mind getting them, young and up-coming, good hands with speed.

Exactly. "Shut down" corners are damn near impossible to find. These young guys have good technique, speed and very physical.

SaintsBro · 01-08-2015, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

One of the more overused phrases in the game's lexicon, there are maybe one, two "shutdown" cornerbacks in the league - just a rare athlete...

What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT.

You have a "shutdown" corner -- people just throw to the other side. All day. See exhibit #24, Corey White.

I remember this vividly like it was yesterday. Somebody (I want to say it was AsylumGuido, but I can't be sure) was talking about this at the very end of the 2009 season or in the playoffs.

Basically, somebody posted a stat at the end of 2009, that said that: when Porter and Greer were on the field at the same time, in 2009, they played at Revis-like levels. BOTH of them out there, it was absolute shut down city, almost nothing got by. When one of them was injured or out, it dropped off pretty dramatically (such as the play in the Super Bowl when Usama Young came in for one play, and Manning burned him immediately for a TD). But for that period of time, Greer and Porter together on the field were essentially "shutdown" level, while neither of them individually had that same level of impressive stats or name-dropping legendary shutdown status. But the two of them together, that year, were elite and every bit as good or better than Revis at his best, by himself....this is really what we all cheered for so much that year.

hagan714 · 01-08-2015, 10:15 AM

all we need is a solid #2 man cover corner. that is it. shut it down 75% of the works. right now we are at .. what ... 2% ?

opps had to edit 75% is a bit much that would require a pass rush which we did not have last year so lets go 50%

if the safeties can be freed up 50% of the time to support the run and cover the middle of the field this defense would greatly improve to say mid 20s at best. at the least get out of the 30s

Besides there is not a shut down corner on the FA list. Revis is the only one out there if the Pats do not keep him that fits that description.

Jack Vegas · 01-08-2015, 10:17 AM

Keenan, as much as I love him, is definitely not a "shut down corner." Not many of those exist. Keenan is a bump-and-run physical guy. He's more like a Ronde Barber or Mike McKenzie type of player.

IMO what we need is a pure man cover cover. Something like Tracy Porter when he first came into the league. Doesn't have to be a "great" corner but somebody who can give you a different look on the other side of the field. P-Rob is this type of player but obviously had a rough season. We need somebody like that who can run with anybody on the field and do it all day long.

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT.

Exactly. We were depending on White or Robinson to be that guy, and it didn't work out. But that doesn't mean it can't work out next year with some other player (or maybe even Baptiste).

dizzle88 · 01-08-2015, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT.

You have a "shutdown" corner -- people just throw to the other side. All day. See exhibit #24, Corey White.

I remember this vividly like it was yesterday. Somebody (I want to say it was AsylumGuido, but I can't be sure) was talking about this at the very end of the 2009 season or in the playoffs.

Basically, somebody posted a stat at the end of 2009, that said that: when Porter and Greer were on the field at the same time, in 2009, they played at Revis-like levels. BOTH of them out there, it was absolute shut down city, almost nothing got by. When one of them was injured or out, it dropped off pretty dramatically (such as the play in the Super Bowl when Usama Young came in for one play, and Manning burned him immediately for a TD). But for that period of time, Greer and Porter together on the field were essentially "shutdown" level, while neither of them individually had that same level of impressive stats or name-dropping legendary shutdown status. But the two of them together, that year, were elite and every bit as good or better than Revis at his best, by himself....this is really what we all cheered for so much that year.

In the regular season, Greer and Porter only allowed 1 TD against them combined

That was a play when Roddy white pushed Greer to the ground and PI wasn't called

Those two allowed our D to be massively flexible in blitzing.

blackangold · 01-08-2015, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT.

You have a "shutdown" corner -- people just throw to the other side. All day. See exhibit #24, Corey White.

I remember this vividly like it was yesterday. Somebody (I want to say it was AsylumGuido, but I can't be sure) was talking about this at the very end of the 2009 season or in the playoffs.

Basically, somebody posted a stat at the end of 2009, that said that: when Porter and Greer were on the field at the same time, in 2009, they played at Revis-like levels. BOTH of them out there, it was absolute shut down city, almost nothing got by. When one of them was injured or out, it dropped off pretty dramatically (such as the play in the Super Bowl when Usama Young came in for one play, and Manning burned him immediately for a TD). But for that period of time, Greer and Porter together on the field were essentially "shutdown" level, while neither of them individually had that same level of impressive stats or name-dropping legendary shutdown status. But the two of them together, that year, were elite and every bit as good or better than Revis at his best, by himself....this is really what we all cheered for so much that year.

I agree with the premise, but it's important to remember the 2009 defense wasn't very good at a lot of things. The 09 defense ranked poorly in YPG and were easily passed on, there were 2 areas they excelled; turnovers and sacks.

Saying Greer and Porter were on Revis level even as a tandem isn't accurate.

We don't need a shut-down CB, we need a decent #2 that can hold his own 90% of the time.

01-07-2015, 10:36 PM	#1
Threaded by WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,046 Rating: (0 votes - average) This morning we bring to you Part 3 of our mini-series “Fixing the Saints” for the upcoming 2015 season; in which we have looked at the “gaping holes” on the roster that led directly to their disappointing 7-9 finish in 2014. After looking at the Linebacker unit in Part 1 and the Offensive Line in Part 2, today’s article will look at the position that is one of the “pet peeves” of the entire Who Dat Nation: the #2 CB spot opposite of outstanding All-Pro caliber (though he’s never been chosen as such) cornerback and New Orleans native Keenan Lewis. Read more: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner Last edited by papz; 01-08-2015 at 08:57 AM..
Views: 8657

01-08-2015, 07:19 AM	#3
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner One of the more overused phrases in the game's lexicon, there are maybe one, two "shutdown" cornerbacks in the league - just a rare athlete... With other salary commitments, we just need really solid cornerbacks who will force passers to always be 'perfect' with throws... Simply, need a solid cornerback that can pass defend, open-field tackle and actually catch the ball when opportunities arise... We need a base pass rush, get a base package honest pass rush and lessen the burden on the secondary... SaintsBro and MarchingOn like this.

01-08-2015, 08:09 AM	#4
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner The Jags have 2 CB that are FA that are coming into their own, I wouldn't mind getting them, young and up-coming, good hands with speed. hagan714, dizzle88 and K Major like this.

01-08-2015, 09:01 AM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner Originally Posted by halloween 65 The Jags have 2 CB that are FA that are coming into their own, I wouldn't mind getting them, young and up-coming, good hands with speed. Exactly. "Shut down" corners are damn near impossible to find. These young guys have good technique, speed and very physical. halloween 65 likes this.

01-08-2015, 10:07 AM	#6
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner Originally Posted by jeanpierre One of the more overused phrases in the game's lexicon, there are maybe one, two "shutdown" cornerbacks in the league - just a rare athlete... What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT. You have a "shutdown" corner -- people just throw to the other side. All day. See exhibit #24, Corey White. I remember this vividly like it was yesterday. Somebody (I want to say it was AsylumGuido, but I can't be sure) was talking about this at the very end of the 2009 season or in the playoffs. Basically, somebody posted a stat at the end of 2009, that said that: when Porter and Greer were on the field at the same time, in 2009, they played at Revis-like levels. BOTH of them out there, it was absolute shut down city, almost nothing got by. When one of them was injured or out, it dropped off pretty dramatically (such as the play in the Super Bowl when Usama Young came in for one play, and Manning burned him immediately for a TD). But for that period of time, Greer and Porter together on the field were essentially "shutdown" level, while neither of them individually had that same level of impressive stats or name-dropping legendary shutdown status. But the two of them together, that year, were elite and every bit as good or better than Revis at his best, by himself....this is really what we all cheered for so much that year. leilung, mleg1972, skymike and 4 others like this.
	Last edited by SaintsBro; 01-08-2015 at 10:09 AM..

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01-08-2015, 05:47 AM	#2
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner Kareem Jackson is about the only thing going for the Texans secondary. i see them keep him around. Byron Maxwell ? biding war? but the attitude from the sea hawks might be welcomed Trae Waynes p really like but med evals have to ve good. mult leg injuries Marcus Peters? bad boy Marcus hmm there in the second? take him lets see if the saints we serious about discipline Kevin Johnson Wake Forest is the one i am still keeping an eye on Quinten Rollins Miami of Ohio? want another project? anyone?

01-08-2015, 10:15 AM	#7
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner all we need is a solid #2 man cover corner. that is it. shut it down 75% of the works. right now we are at .. what ... 2% ? opps had to edit 75% is a bit much that would require a pass rush which we did not have last year so lets go 50% if the safeties can be freed up 50% of the time to support the run and cover the middle of the field this defense would greatly improve to say mid 20s at best. at the least get out of the 30s Besides there is not a shut down corner on the FA list. Revis is the only one out there if the Pats do not keep him that fits that description.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 01-08-2015 at 10:22 AM..

01-08-2015, 10:17 AM	#8
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner Keenan, as much as I love him, is definitely not a "shut down corner." Not many of those exist. Keenan is a bump-and-run physical guy. He's more like a Ronde Barber or Mike McKenzie type of player. IMO what we need is a pure man cover cover. Something like Tracy Porter when he first came into the league. Doesn't have to be a "great" corner but somebody who can give you a different look on the other side of the field. P-Rob is this type of player but obviously had a rough season. We need somebody like that who can run with anybody on the field and do it all day long. Originally Posted by SaintsBro What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT. Exactly. We were depending on White or Robinson to be that guy, and it didn't work out. But that doesn't mean it can't work out next year with some other player (or maybe even Baptiste). hagan714 likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

01-08-2015, 10:31 AM	#9
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner Originally Posted by SaintsBro What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT. You have a "shutdown" corner -- people just throw to the other side. All day. See exhibit #24, Corey White. I remember this vividly like it was yesterday. Somebody (I want to say it was AsylumGuido, but I can't be sure) was talking about this at the very end of the 2009 season or in the playoffs. Basically, somebody posted a stat at the end of 2009, that said that: when Porter and Greer were on the field at the same time, in 2009, they played at Revis-like levels. BOTH of them out there, it was absolute shut down city, almost nothing got by. When one of them was injured or out, it dropped off pretty dramatically (such as the play in the Super Bowl when Usama Young came in for one play, and Manning burned him immediately for a TD). But for that period of time, Greer and Porter together on the field were essentially "shutdown" level, while neither of them individually had that same level of impressive stats or name-dropping legendary shutdown status. But the two of them together, that year, were elite and every bit as good or better than Revis at his best, by himself....this is really what we all cheered for so much that year. In the regular season, Greer and Porter only allowed 1 TD against them combined That was a play when Roddy white pushed Greer to the ground and PI wasn't called Those two allowed our D to be massively flexible in blitzing. SaintsBro likes this.

01-08-2015, 12:18 PM	#10
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Fixing the Saints Part 3: Another Shut-Down Corner Originally Posted by SaintsBro What I think you/we really want, instead of that one rare (and usually zillion-dollar) athlete, is something like what we had with Greer and Porter in '09 -- a tandem or group of guys, who work together, and are basically "shutdown" -- as a UNIT. You have a "shutdown" corner -- people just throw to the other side. All day. See exhibit #24, Corey White. I remember this vividly like it was yesterday. Somebody (I want to say it was AsylumGuido, but I can't be sure) was talking about this at the very end of the 2009 season or in the playoffs. Basically, somebody posted a stat at the end of 2009, that said that: when Porter and Greer were on the field at the same time, in 2009, they played at Revis-like levels. BOTH of them out there, it was absolute shut down city, almost nothing got by. When one of them was injured or out, it dropped off pretty dramatically (such as the play in the Super Bowl when Usama Young came in for one play, and Manning burned him immediately for a TD). But for that period of time, Greer and Porter together on the field were essentially "shutdown" level, while neither of them individually had that same level of impressive stats or name-dropping legendary shutdown status. But the two of them together, that year, were elite and every bit as good or better than Revis at his best, by himself....this is really what we all cheered for so much that year. I agree with the premise, but it's important to remember the 2009 defense wasn't very good at a lot of things. The 09 defense ranked poorly in YPG and were easily passed on, there were 2 areas they excelled; turnovers and sacks. Saying Greer and Porter were on Revis level even as a tandem isn't accurate. We don't need a shut-down CB, we need a decent #2 that can hold his own 90% of the time.

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