Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan?

Danno · 01-19-2015, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

And this team HAS talent.

Really? Where?

I'd have to agree that we have a lot of talent on defense. They just totally underperformed this year.

Jordan
Galette
Hicks
Lofton
Lewis
Vaccaro
Byrd
Jenkins
Bush

Tobias-Reiper · 01-19-2015, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'd have to agree that we have a lot of talent on defense. They just totally underperformed this year.

Jordan
Galette
Hicks
Lofton
Lewis
Vaccaro
Byrd
Jenkins
Bush

And I'd have to disagree...

I did say Lewis, Jordan, with Vaccaro as "jury still out"

I'll give you Byrd same as Vaccaro, "jury still out", since he had one good game then looked bad before he got hurt, but he has a history, although I didn't follow the Bills, so I don't know.

But the rest, I just don't see true talent.

spkb25 · 01-20-2015, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

And I'd have to disagree...

I did say Lewis, Jordan, with Vaccaro as "jury still out"

I'll give you Byrd same as Vaccaro, "jury still out", since he ahd one god game then looked bad before he got hurt, but he has a history, although I didn't follow the Bills, so I don't know.

But the rest, I just don't see true talent.

JG has 12 sacks and 10 sacks the last two seasons. Even if you concede he is just a sack specialist, they're pretty good numbers.

blackangold · 01-20-2015, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

And I'd have to disagree...

I did say Lewis, Jordan, with Vaccaro as "jury still out"

I'll give you Byrd same as Vaccaro, "jury still out", since he ahd one god game then looked bad before he got hurt, but he has a history, although I didn't follow the Bills, so I don't know.

But the rest, I just don't see true talent.

Byrd was an all-pro that lead the team in tackles and turnovers before getting hurt, as a safety you should never lead the team in tackles.

Gallete was only behind JJ Watt for QB pressures, and was our best player by a mile according to PFF.

Ill say that Vaccaro is a bust at the safety spot but we have a diamond in Warren who in limited reps was the best graded Safety.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-20-2015, 11:16 AM

Ok.. Let's not do the politican soundbite thing here...

Originally Posted by blackangold

Byrd was an all-pro

Yes, was selected as 2nd team All-Pro, behind Earl Thomas and Eric Berry, after the 2013 season in Buffalo.

... that lead the team in tackles and turnovers before getting hurt, as a safety you should never lead the team in tackles.

He didn't lead the team in turnovers. He had none. He did however made Julio Jones fumble the first game of the season. That was his only forced fumble.

So you say he lead the team in tackles... ok... but then you look at passes defended, 2. Then you think, a Free Safety defending only 2 passes, but making 17 tackles... and makes you wonder... seems he had a high number of tackles for a safety because he was tackling receivers|TE's after they made the catch... which is no good.

Gallete was only behind JJ Watt for QB pressures,

Please, do not put Galette.
And JJ Watt on the same sentence.

...for QB pressures,and was our best player by a mile according to PFF.

Then PFF is full of ****, and were not watching either Keenan Lewis, or the reason why Galette was anywhere near the QB. I would also like to see PFF's definition of "QB pressure". "Being around 5yds from QB", not really QB pressure.

Ill say that Vaccaro is a bust at the safety spot but we have a diamond in Warren who in limited reps was the best graded Safety.

That Vaccaro is a SF and Warren is a FS notwithstanding:

Warren was the best graded safety... cool... probably because his 2 INTs from the Bears game... then other 5 games he played in, not so hot.

So, one very good rookie season and one bad season makes a player a bust, whereas 1 good game and 5 meh to bad games makes someone a diamond in the rough.Sounds legit.

blackangold · 01-20-2015, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Ok.. Let's not do the politican soundbite thing here...

Yes, was selected as 2nd team All-Pro, behind Earl Thomas and Eric Berry, after the 2013 season in Buffalo.

He didn't lead the team in turnovers. He had none. He did however made Julio Jones fumble the first game of the season. That was his only forced fumble.

So you say he lead the team in tackles... ok... but then you look at passes defended, 2. Then you think, a Free Safety defending only 2 passes, but making 17 tackles... and makes you wonder... seems he had a high number of tackles for a safety because he was tackling receivers|TE's after they made the catch... which is no good.

Please, do not put Galette.
And JJ Watt on the same sentence.

Then PFF is full of ****, and were not watching either Keenan Lewis, or the reason why Galette was anywhere near the QB. I would also like to see PFF's definition of "QB pressure". "Being around 5yds from QB", not really QB pressure.

That Vaccaro is a SF and Warren is a FS notwithstanding:

Warren was the best graded safety... cool... probably because his 2 INTs from the Bears game... then other 5 games he played in, not so hot.

So, one very good rookie season and one bad season makes a player a bust, whereas 1 good game and 5 meh to bad games makes someone a diamond in the rough.Sounds legit.

lol...

You're one of those "my eyes see everything better" kind of people I guess.

Notice in my posts I did not mention any 'opinion', only stated fact along with highly regarded statistical info.

Also, the last time I checked; a forced fumble that is recovered by the defense would be called a turnover...

Tobias-Reiper · 01-21-2015, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

lol...

You're one of those "my eyes see everything better" kind of people I guess.

Notice in my posts I did not mention any 'opinion', only stated fact along with highly regarded statistical info.

Also, the last time I checked; a forced fumble that is recovered by the defense would be called a turnover...

No. I am just the objective type.

Your "highly regarded statistics" are just that, statistics, what comes after lies, and damn lies. and not only are they stats, some of them are subjective and not assessed uniformly, such as "QB pressure". With PFF, there are different people who assess games every week, using only a set of guidelines, and based on those guidelines, it may very well be that a journeyman LB getting within a couple yards of a QB may be classified a "QB pressure", the same as a future HoF DE putting the fear of God on QBs, getting doubled and triple teamed, and still getting within 2 yards of the QB, and the QB running away from him... but we both know it is not the same thing. Or do we?

A fumble is not a turnover until someone from the defense takes possession of the ball. The player recovering the ball would be the one creating the turn over, as it is only then that possession of the ball changes. In any case, even if we move pass the semantics and we go with "he lead the team in turnovers", it's cool with me: "he lead the teams in turnovers"... with 1. WHEEEE!!!

Now, Byrd made a very good play in fumble the fumble, no question. Unfortunately that was the only good play he made in the 4 games he played.

01-19-2015, 03:42 PM	#1
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan? Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper And this team HAS talent. Really? Where? I'd have to agree that we have a lot of talent on defense. They just totally underperformed this year. Jordan Galette Hicks Lofton Lewis Vaccaro Byrd Jenkins Bush

01-19-2015, 10:13 PM	#2
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan? Originally Posted by Danno I'd have to agree that we have a lot of talent on defense. They just totally underperformed this year. Jordan Galette Hicks Lofton Lewis Vaccaro Byrd Jenkins Bush And I'd have to disagree... I did say Lewis, Jordan, with Vaccaro as "jury still out" I'll give you Byrd same as Vaccaro, "jury still out", since he had one good game then looked bad before he got hurt, but he has a history, although I didn't follow the Bills, so I don't know. But the rest, I just don't see true talent.

01-20-2015, 05:02 AM	#3
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,145	Re: Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan? Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper And I'd have to disagree... I did say Lewis, Jordan, with Vaccaro as "jury still out" I'll give you Byrd same as Vaccaro, "jury still out", since he ahd one god game then looked bad before he got hurt, but he has a history, although I didn't follow the Bills, so I don't know. But the rest, I just don't see true talent. JG has 12 sacks and 10 sacks the last two seasons. Even if you concede he is just a sack specialist, they're pretty good numbers.

01-20-2015, 07:39 AM	#4
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan? Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper And I'd have to disagree... I did say Lewis, Jordan, with Vaccaro as "jury still out" I'll give you Byrd same as Vaccaro, "jury still out", since he ahd one god game then looked bad before he got hurt, but he has a history, although I didn't follow the Bills, so I don't know. But the rest, I just don't see true talent. Byrd was an all-pro that lead the team in tackles and turnovers before getting hurt, as a safety you should never lead the team in tackles. Gallete was only behind JJ Watt for QB pressures, and was our best player by a mile according to PFF. Ill say that Vaccaro is a bust at the safety spot but we have a diamond in Warren who in limited reps was the best graded Safety. Danno and dizzle88 like this.

01-20-2015, 11:16 AM	#5
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan? Ok.. Let's not do the politican soundbite thing here... Originally Posted by blackangold Byrd was an all-pro Yes, was selected as 2nd team All-Pro, behind Earl Thomas and Eric Berry, after the 2013 season in Buffalo. ... that lead the team in tackles and turnovers before getting hurt, as a safety you should never lead the team in tackles. He didn't lead the team in turnovers. He had none. He did however made Julio Jones fumble the first game of the season. That was his only forced fumble. So you say he lead the team in tackles... ok... but then you look at passes defended, 2. Then you think, a Free Safety defending only 2 passes, but making 17 tackles... and makes you wonder... seems he had a high number of tackles for a safety because he was tackling receivers\|TE's after they made the catch... which is no good. Gallete was only behind JJ Watt for QB pressures, Please, do not put Galette. And JJ Watt on the same sentence. ...for QB pressures,and was our best player by a mile according to PFF. Then PFF is full of ****, and were not watching either Keenan Lewis, or the reason why Galette was anywhere near the QB. I would also like to see PFF's definition of "QB pressure". "Being around 5yds from QB", not really QB pressure. Ill say that Vaccaro is a bust at the safety spot but we have a diamond in Warren who in limited reps was the best graded Safety. That Vaccaro is a SF and Warren is a FS notwithstanding: Warren was the best graded safety... cool... probably because his 2 INTs from the Bears game... then other 5 games he played in, not so hot. So, one very good rookie season and one bad season makes a player a bust, whereas 1 good game and 5 meh to bad games makes someone a diamond in the rough.Sounds legit.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

01-20-2015, 02:35 PM	#6
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan? Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Ok.. Let's not do the politican soundbite thing here... Yes, was selected as 2nd team All-Pro, behind Earl Thomas and Eric Berry, after the 2013 season in Buffalo. He didn't lead the team in turnovers. He had none. He did however made Julio Jones fumble the first game of the season. That was his only forced fumble. So you say he lead the team in tackles... ok... but then you look at passes defended, 2. Then you think, a Free Safety defending only 2 passes, but making 17 tackles... and makes you wonder... seems he had a high number of tackles for a safety because he was tackling receivers\|TE's after they made the catch... which is no good. Please, do not put Galette. And JJ Watt on the same sentence. Then PFF is full of ****, and were not watching either Keenan Lewis, or the reason why Galette was anywhere near the QB. I would also like to see PFF's definition of "QB pressure". "Being around 5yds from QB", not really QB pressure. That Vaccaro is a SF and Warren is a FS notwithstanding: Warren was the best graded safety... cool... probably because his 2 INTs from the Bears game... then other 5 games he played in, not so hot. So, one very good rookie season and one bad season makes a player a bust, whereas 1 good game and 5 meh to bad games makes someone a diamond in the rough.Sounds legit. lol... You're one of those "my eyes see everything better" kind of people I guess. Notice in my posts I did not mention any 'opinion', only stated fact along with highly regarded statistical info. Also, the last time I checked; a forced fumble that is recovered by the defense would be called a turnover...

01-21-2015, 12:07 AM	#7
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Would Saints Pull an END-AROUND on Rob Ryan? Originally Posted by blackangold lol... You're one of those "my eyes see everything better" kind of people I guess. Notice in my posts I did not mention any 'opinion', only stated fact along with highly regarded statistical info. Also, the last time I checked; a forced fumble that is recovered by the defense would be called a turnover... No. I am just the objective type. Your "highly regarded statistics" are just that, statistics, what comes after lies, and damn lies. and not only are they stats, some of them are subjective and not assessed uniformly, such as "QB pressure". With PFF, there are different people who assess games every week, using only a set of guidelines, and based on those guidelines, it may very well be that a journeyman LB getting within a couple yards of a QB may be classified a "QB pressure", the same as a future HoF DE putting the fear of God on QBs, getting doubled and triple teamed, and still getting within 2 yards of the QB, and the QB running away from him... but we both know it is not the same thing. Or do we? A fumble is not a turnover until someone from the defense takes possession of the ball. The player recovering the ball would be the one creating the turn over, as it is only then that possession of the ball changes. In any case, even if we move pass the semantics and we go with "he lead the team in turnovers", it's cool with me: "he lead the teams in turnovers"... with 1. WHEEEE!!! Now, Byrd made a very good play in fumble the fumble, no question. Unfortunately that was the only good play he made in the 4 games he played.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

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