Venturi to stay

saintswhodi · 01-18-2005, 12:32 PM

You do realize Danno the points you are belittling are points that were made when the team was 4-8. Now make me understand how 4-8 = winner and I will fall into line with your thinking. Oh by the way, we have made the playoffs once in the last what 12-13 years? Good call. I see how mediocre has helped us avoid the trap that is the NFL playoffs. Getting in is overrated right? The point is the Chargers were WORSE than us for many years and now they are better and were in the playoffs in a much tougher conference. The point ids the Bengals have been WORSE than us for many MANY years and when they hit rock bottom and got a new coach, suddenly they are .500 just like us in a tougher conference. Yeah I wanna accept that. Let\'s keep winning half our games and hope the rest of the NFC stays terrible and almost by the fluke of the century let\'s us get into the playoffs. Sound strategy.

I personally don\'t think winning is meaningless, or equates to mediocrity. Winning good, losing Bad!. I don\'t understand why people can\'t see this.

So explain to me what our record was again after winning 4 in a row? Mediocre. And now we have discussions of not only Haslett staying AND getting an extension, Venturi is staying. So maybe the point you are missing is, losing is not good in EVERY situation, but in some instances it\'s necessary. This was IONE of those instances. Again, tell me what we GAINED by winning the last 4? I can tell you what we lost.

Yeah, and time after time after time, they still sucked. Yep, lets ignore the fact that changes and high draft picks don\'t always lead to being better. I want to see my team win, not lose. I don\'t give a flipping crap about picking 6th or 16th. Picking late never hurt the Pats, or Eagles.

Well, actually, the Eagles sucked and that\'s how they got McNabb and Corey Simon. The Pats sucked and that\'s how they got Bledsoe. Then they BOTH brought in new coaches after losing and look where they are. Kinda makes my point. Got bad to be good. Thanks.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-18-2005, 01:18 PM

OK I will.
If Minnesota had won like they were supposed to we\'d have made the playoffs. And from what I\'ve seen so far there was a good chance we\'d have advanced, maybe more than one round.
Winning the last 4 games didn\'t save Venturi\'s job, stupidity by a clueless owner and a gutless front office are the reasons Venturi is back.

If finishing dead fricking last in defense isn\'t enough to get Venturi fired, do you think finishing 4-12 would have? I have no reason to believe it would.

If IFs were fifths we\'d all be drunk. Bottom line - Minnesota didn\'t win, the Saints didn\'t make the playoffs, and thus couldn\'t advance. Based on their history to expect fate to be on their side seems pretty unrealistic.

As for 4-12, yes, I think that forces Benson\'s hand. 8-8 with a 4-0 finish is respectable. Nobody else around the league seems to have the memory that some of us do. Most Saints fans seem to have particularly short memories. Thus, 4 straight losses to end 4-12 makes the Saints a laughing stock and forces Benson\'s hand, IMO. 8-8 with 4 straight wins give the Marketing department just what they need to build hype for next year, and an out to suggest to our nimrod fans that we actually got jipped.

So you wanna play the IF card on me, when you are the one assuming IF we finished 4-12 things would be better?
Yea, right...
IF Benson fires Haslett
IF Benson doesn\'t promote Venturi to HC
IF Benson doesn\'t promote McCarthy to HC
IF Benson hires a quality GM
IF Benson hires a new proven HC
IF Benson doesn\'t sell the team to LA
IF Benson hires a good talent scout
IF the new guys decide to get serious in free agency
IF the new guys don\'t draft worse than currently do.
IF we don\'t go through 3 years of 4-12 while we rebuild.

Yea, and IF a frog had wings he wouldn\'t bump his asss everytime he tried to fly.

I\'ll take my Saints wins whenever I can get them. The last 4 games were a lot more enjoyable than the 1st 12. And I know you too were pulling for them, not against them. Don\'t make me find that statement.

..dude, you started with the IF\'s not WhoDat...
\"if Minnesota would have won...\"

..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\"

Danno · 01-18-2005, 01:57 PM

..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\"

We very well could have beat the crap out of them. We were 1 first down away from winning in Atlanta, with a healthy Vick and Crumpler. I don\'t see how its a given they would have beaten us with them in New Orleans.
Oh and Dude,
You posted two IF\'s before I even mentioned the Minnesota game, which was only to point out how close we were to the playoffs. Tell me you were pulling for us to lose. Yeah right.
And WhoDat\'s whole premise was IF we hadn\'t won the last 4 games...IF IF IF IF IF.
I listed about 7 IF\'s to support WhoDats claim. And you wanna play the IF game with me?
Better re-load and try again.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-18-2005, 03:08 PM

..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\"

We very well could have beat the crap out of them. We were 1 first down away from winning in Atlanta, with a healthy Vick and Crumpler. I don\'t see how its a given they would have beaten us with them in New Orleans.
Oh and Dude,
You posted two IF\'s before I even mentioned the Minnesota game, which was only to point out how close we were to the playoffs. Tell me you were pulling for us to lose. Yeah right.
And WhoDat\'s whole premise was IF we hadn\'t won the last 4 games...IF IF IF IF IF.
I listed about 7 IF\'s to support WhoDats claim. And you wanna play the IF game with me?
Better re-load and try again.

aah,, but you either didn\'t read my posts, or you are debating the wrong argument with me...

the first if I used wasn\'t meant as \" if x, then y\"... it wasn\'t meant as a coulda, woulda,shoulda, or a question of cause and effect... it was meant as a question of why not use the same logic for Venturi that is being used for Haslett...

The second if again, wasn\'t meant as \" if x, then y\"... it was \" maybe x because of y\"... speculating on why something happened, as in why the defense seemed to play better the last 4 games of the season, and not what would\'ve happened if something else had occurred, which is what you speculated with \"if the Vikings had won then the Saints would\'ve gone to the playoffs\"...

...big difference ...

... it is also appropiate to point out my third post when I mentioned that I was playing devil\'s advocate and I want everyone, including the waterbots, gone...

... the point is, I don\'t think about the \"what would\'ve happened\"... I\'m more the \"what\'s going to happen/what happened\" type of person...

Danno · 01-18-2005, 03:51 PM

..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\"

aah,, but you either didn\'t read my posts, or you are debating the wrong argument with me...

AAh, but you either didn\'t read my post, or you are debating the wrong argument with me.
...and you didn\'t reply to my \"pointing out all the IF\'s in WhoDats logic...\"

Tobias-Reiper · 01-18-2005, 06:03 PM

..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\"

aah,, but you either didn\'t read my posts, or you are debating the wrong argument with me...

AAh, but you either didn\'t read my post, or you are debating the wrong argument with me.
...and you didn\'t reply to my \"pointing out all the IF\'s in WhoDats logic...\"

..I love you, man!

FireVenturi · 01-18-2005, 06:06 PM

I still think Rick the clueless will be re-assigned

creole_t · 01-19-2005, 12:53 PM

So explain to me what our record was again after winning 4 in a row? Mediocre. And now we have discussions of not only Haslett staying AND getting an extension, Venturi is staying. So maybe the point you are missing is, losing is not good in EVERY situation, but in some instances it\'s necessary. This was IONE of those instances. Again, tell me what we GAINED by winning the last 4? I can tell you what we lost.

We gained boatloads by winning the last 4 games. You could make an arguement for momentum or confidence that the players will carry into next season. With that confidence, you could say some players will stay on board, or at least the Saints look more appealing to FA\'s by finishing strong.

Not to mention that little streak MAY have been enough to keep the Saints hanging around New Orleans. I got to agree with Danno on this one. I personally would take a 4 game winning streak to close the season even if that meant we finished 4-12!

I flirted with the idea of rooting against the Saints one time...this year vs OAK. By the end of the pregame show, I realized that even though I wanted a new coaching staff, I could never root against the Saints. I will take a win any day of the week over throwing a game for a personnel change.

saintswhodi · 01-19-2005, 02:31 PM

No problem creole. Your opinion on the situation is very welcome. I hope you are still posting when we are having this same conversation next year.

RDOX · 01-19-2005, 06:59 PM

No problem creole. Your opinion on the situation is very welcome. I hope you are still posting when we are having this same conversation next year.

Whodi!!

My question is this: Why are we having the co0nversation at all? The problem stems from the fact that we have a dud as a GM and a dud as a DPP. This has translated to poor performance on the field due to poor coaching, team leadership and game planning. Put Venturi in a job as a teacher and let him do his thing. I\'d venture to say he needs to replace Winston Moss. Get Mike Singletary here as DC and find someone who understands the word \"random\" as OC.

Another thing that needs to be done and quickly is to get into Leon\'s face, and scream the fact that he is not good, let alone great and to shut the hell up NOW!!! That\'s going to take someone with a pair to do it. But it needs to be done.

Stop coddling these people.

01-18-2005, 12:32 PM	#31
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Venturi to stay You do realize Danno the points you are belittling are points that were made when the team was 4-8. Now make me understand how 4-8 = winner and I will fall into line with your thinking. Oh by the way, we have made the playoffs once in the last what 12-13 years? Good call. I see how mediocre has helped us avoid the trap that is the NFL playoffs. Getting in is overrated right? The point is the Chargers were WORSE than us for many years and now they are better and were in the playoffs in a much tougher conference. The point ids the Bengals have been WORSE than us for many MANY years and when they hit rock bottom and got a new coach, suddenly they are .500 just like us in a tougher conference. Yeah I wanna accept that. Let\'s keep winning half our games and hope the rest of the NFC stays terrible and almost by the fluke of the century let\'s us get into the playoffs. Sound strategy. I personally don\'t think winning is meaningless, or equates to mediocrity. Winning good, losing Bad!. I don\'t understand why people can\'t see this. So explain to me what our record was again after winning 4 in a row? Mediocre. And now we have discussions of not only Haslett staying AND getting an extension, Venturi is staying. So maybe the point you are missing is, losing is not good in EVERY situation, but in some instances it\'s necessary. This was IONE of those instances. Again, tell me what we GAINED by winning the last 4? I can tell you what we lost. Yeah, and time after time after time, they still sucked. Yep, lets ignore the fact that changes and high draft picks don\'t always lead to being better. I want to see my team win, not lose. I don\'t give a flipping crap about picking 6th or 16th. Picking late never hurt the Pats, or Eagles. Well, actually, the Eagles sucked and that\'s how they got McNabb and Corey Simon. The Pats sucked and that\'s how they got Bledsoe. Then they BOTH brought in new coaches after losing and look where they are. Kinda makes my point. Got bad to be good. Thanks.

01-18-2005, 01:18 PM	#32
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Venturi to stay OK I will. If Minnesota had won like they were supposed to we\'d have made the playoffs. And from what I\'ve seen so far there was a good chance we\'d have advanced, maybe more than one round. Winning the last 4 games didn\'t save Venturi\'s job, stupidity by a clueless owner and a gutless front office are the reasons Venturi is back. If finishing dead fricking last in defense isn\'t enough to get Venturi fired, do you think finishing 4-12 would have? I have no reason to believe it would. If IFs were fifths we\'d all be drunk. Bottom line - Minnesota didn\'t win, the Saints didn\'t make the playoffs, and thus couldn\'t advance. Based on their history to expect fate to be on their side seems pretty unrealistic. As for 4-12, yes, I think that forces Benson\'s hand. 8-8 with a 4-0 finish is respectable. Nobody else around the league seems to have the memory that some of us do. Most Saints fans seem to have particularly short memories. Thus, 4 straight losses to end 4-12 makes the Saints a laughing stock and forces Benson\'s hand, IMO. 8-8 with 4 straight wins give the Marketing department just what they need to build hype for next year, and an out to suggest to our nimrod fans that we actually got jipped. So you wanna play the IF card on me, when you are the one assuming IF we finished 4-12 things would be better? Yea, right... IF Benson fires Haslett IF Benson doesn\'t promote Venturi to HC IF Benson doesn\'t promote McCarthy to HC IF Benson hires a quality GM IF Benson hires a new proven HC IF Benson doesn\'t sell the team to LA IF Benson hires a good talent scout IF the new guys decide to get serious in free agency IF the new guys don\'t draft worse than currently do. IF we don\'t go through 3 years of 4-12 while we rebuild. Yea, and IF a frog had wings he wouldn\'t bump his asss everytime he tried to fly. I\'ll take my Saints wins whenever I can get them. The last 4 games were a lot more enjoyable than the 1st 12. And I know you too were pulling for them, not against them. Don\'t make me find that statement. ..dude, you started with the IF\'s not WhoDat... \"if Minnesota would have won...\" ..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\"
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

01-18-2005, 01:57 PM	#33
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,725	Venturi to stay ..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\" We very well could have beat the crap out of them. We were 1 first down away from winning in Atlanta, with a healthy Vick and Crumpler. I don\'t see how its a given they would have beaten us with them in New Orleans. Oh and Dude, You posted two IF\'s before I even mentioned the Minnesota game, which was only to point out how close we were to the playoffs. Tell me you were pulling for us to lose. Yeah right. And WhoDat\'s whole premise was IF we hadn\'t won the last 4 games...IF IF IF IF IF. I listed about 7 IF\'s to support WhoDats claim. And you wanna play the IF game with me? Better re-load and try again.

01-18-2005, 03:08 PM	#34
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Venturi to stay ..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\" We very well could have beat the crap out of them. We were 1 first down away from winning in Atlanta, with a healthy Vick and Crumpler. I don\'t see how its a given they would have beaten us with them in New Orleans. Oh and Dude, You posted two IF\'s before I even mentioned the Minnesota game, which was only to point out how close we were to the playoffs. Tell me you were pulling for us to lose. Yeah right. And WhoDat\'s whole premise was IF we hadn\'t won the last 4 games...IF IF IF IF IF. I listed about 7 IF\'s to support WhoDats claim. And you wanna play the IF game with me? Better re-load and try again. aah,, but you either didn\'t read my posts, or you are debating the wrong argument with me... the first if I used wasn\'t meant as \" if x, then y\"... it wasn\'t meant as a coulda, woulda,shoulda, or a question of cause and effect... it was meant as a question of why not use the same logic for Venturi that is being used for Haslett... The second if again, wasn\'t meant as \" if x, then y\"... it was \" maybe x because of y\"... speculating on why something happened, as in why the defense seemed to play better the last 4 games of the season, and not what would\'ve happened if something else had occurred, which is what you speculated with \"if the Vikings had won then the Saints would\'ve gone to the playoffs\"... ...big difference ... ... it is also appropiate to point out my third post when I mentioned that I was playing devil\'s advocate and I want everyone, including the waterbots, gone... ... the point is, I don\'t think about the \"what would\'ve happened\"... I\'m more the \"what\'s going to happen/what happened\" type of person...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

01-18-2005, 03:51 PM	#35
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,725	Venturi to stay ..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\" aah,, but you either didn\'t read my posts, or you are debating the wrong argument with me... AAh, but you either didn\'t read my post, or you are debating the wrong argument with me. ...and you didn\'t reply to my \"pointing out all the IF\'s in WhoDats logic...\"

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01-18-2005, 06:03 PM	#36
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Venturi to stay ..and you didn\'t reply to my \" if Atlanat would\'ve needed to win the second game...\" aah,, but you either didn\'t read my posts, or you are debating the wrong argument with me... AAh, but you either didn\'t read my post, or you are debating the wrong argument with me. ...and you didn\'t reply to my \"pointing out all the IF\'s in WhoDats logic...\" ..I love you, man!

01-18-2005, 06:06 PM	#37
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Venturi to stay I still think Rick the clueless will be re-assigned

01-19-2005, 12:53 PM	#38
creole_t Registered Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 53	Venturi to stay So explain to me what our record was again after winning 4 in a row? Mediocre. And now we have discussions of not only Haslett staying AND getting an extension, Venturi is staying. So maybe the point you are missing is, losing is not good in EVERY situation, but in some instances it\'s necessary. This was IONE of those instances. Again, tell me what we GAINED by winning the last 4? I can tell you what we lost. We gained boatloads by winning the last 4 games. You could make an arguement for momentum or confidence that the players will carry into next season. With that confidence, you could say some players will stay on board, or at least the Saints look more appealing to FA\'s by finishing strong. Not to mention that little streak *MAY* have been enough to keep the Saints hanging around New Orleans. I got to agree with Danno on this one. I personally would take a 4 game winning streak to close the season even if that meant we finished 4-12! I flirted with the idea of rooting against the Saints one time...this year vs OAK. By the end of the pregame show, I realized that even though I wanted a new coaching staff, I could never root against the Saints. I will take a win any day of the week over throwing a game for a personnel change.
creole_t Registered Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 53

01-19-2005, 02:31 PM	#39
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Venturi to stay No problem creole. Your opinion on the situation is very welcome. I hope you are still posting when we are having this same conversation next year.

01-19-2005, 06:59 PM	#40
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Venturi to stay No problem creole. Your opinion on the situation is very welcome. I hope you are still posting when we are having this same conversation next year. Whodi!! My question is this: Why are we having the co0nversation at all? The problem stems from the fact that we have a dud as a GM and a dud as a DPP. This has translated to poor performance on the field due to poor coaching, team leadership and game planning. Put Venturi in a job as a teacher and let him do his thing. I\'d venture to say he needs to replace Winston Moss. Get Mike Singletary here as DC and find someone who understands the word \"random\" as OC. Another thing that needs to be done and quickly is to get into Leon\'s face, and scream the fact that he is not good, let alone great and to shut the hell up NOW!!! That\'s going to take someone with a pair to do it. But it needs to be done. Stop coddling these people.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264