Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades

Sarik · 03-13-2015, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Trading Stills makes sense...

Look, there is only one, ONE, football...

We've had all these receiving weapons that need 10+ touches a game...

Ingram has got to have 15+ touches a game to be effective and Khiry is 7-12 touches for your change-of-pace...

Then you've got whomever we sign as a scatback on third downs for the wheel routes and flat screens...

And you've got the guys who are the third, fourth option who break the oppositions back such as your fullbacks, fourth receiver in 4 sets, second tightend/h-back guys...

Stills should command no less than a second round pick with his advanced production for his experience, contract/cap number, skills/abilities...

What scares me is Loomis always seems to give everything away; he's like my ex-brother-in-law who paid sticker price at car dealerships...

Have no problem trading Stills so long as Payton is sure Toon is ready to be the third WR and we get a second OR...

...one of the first four picks in the third round OR...

...we secretly/conditionally package him with pick no. 13 and we move to pick no. 4 or 5 and select Vic Beasley...

the latter is my sincere, though far-fetched, wish...

I agree. Always saw Cooks & Stills as essentially the same WR. Great route runners/burners/thrive in the slot/can both play on the outside. In a way he is expendable, only if we land someone else like Devante(my fav offensive prospect in this years draft along with David Johnson). Im Pro defense for this draft but am totally ok with getting parker with pick 13, following it up by drafting Harold/Anthony/Perryman/Dawson with picks 31/44 or watever we receive for a Stills trade.

jeanpierre · 03-13-2015, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

What would you think we will take for Stills?

It'd have to be a top 75 pick (no less than early third round) in the draft for this reasoning...

First, he's young, and he's entering that magical third year where WRs typically blossom - and don't think NFL front offices don't know this...

Second, he's a proven commodity as a reliable route runner and the jets to burn for the big pass play...

Third, as a former fifth round pick his contract is miniscule to a team's salary cap - he's major bang for the buck...

Now, in another scenario, I could see moving him with pick No. 13 for a top five pick...

Rugby Saint II · 03-13-2015, 01:45 PM

When it comes to grade I'm giving them a WTF?

saintsfan1976 · 03-13-2015, 02:06 PM

New Orleans Saints: C
The Saints appear to be overhauling their offense this offseason, and Spiller is an intriguing pickup because of his outstanding 2012 performance. He ranked second that season among running backs in PFF overall grading, average yards per rush and average yards after contact, while leading the league by forcing a missed tackle on one out of every 3.9 rush attempts. His 94.6 elusive rating remains the highest regular-season rating in eight years of PFF data.

However, he has since been on the decline, not showing the same elusiveness, and injuries have been troublesome. He ranked 51st out of 55 running backs in PFF overall grading in 2013 and was injured most of last season. When he was on the field, he earned a negative-5.9 overall grade.

If the Saints are still looking to fill the Darren Sproles role in the offense, Spiller has shown the talent to do so if he can regain his 2012 form and stay healthy. But he is more than two years removed from his only season of great play, and Khiry Robinson has already proven to perform well during his limited snaps in the New Orleans offense.

saintsfan1976 · 03-13-2015, 02:10 PM

oh my lord....

New Orleans Saints: C-plus
The good part of the trade is the third-round pick. The Saints are trying to build a strong defense through the draft at the expense of the pass offense. New Orleans now has five picks in the first three rounds of the 2015 draft, but it came at the expense of Brees' best two receivers in 2014. These trades can pay off for the Saints, but by the time they do someone other than Brees might be at quarterback.

As for Ellerbe, while he can be good in coverage, his run defense rating of minus-15.4 was third worst for inside/middle linebackers in 2013. He then played just 18 snaps of 2014 before having a season-ending injury. Even with a restructured contract, the Saints would have been better off just trading Stills for a third, and then signing one of the linebackers left on the free-agent market.

Mardigras9 · 03-13-2015, 02:22 PM

Yeh, that doesn't bring positive vibes at all.

hagan714 · 03-13-2015, 02:35 PM

As for Ellerbe, while he can be good in coverage, his run defense rating of minus-15.4 was third worst for inside/middle linebackers in 2013. He then played just 18 snaps of 2014 before having a season-ending injury. Even with a restructured contract, the Saints would have been better off just trading Stills for a third, and then signing one of the linebackers left on the free-agent market.

i kind of agree with this one. but i have to wait and see the new contract.

as for kenny this is another huge void in the passing game. two years ago we saw what happened to drew with a bunch of new faces running routes. no trust what so ever and held onto the ball

get the OL fixed ASAP and run the ball

draft a OT/OG? Brandon Scherff or La'el Collins

or move streif to LG and draft a ROT that can slide over to T if needed? Jake Fisher

the saints have not improved the OL. subtract one add one still = 0

arsaint · 03-13-2015, 02:38 PM

Espn continues to love us.

Graham trade - all Seattle
Browner signing - won't help
Stills trade - we got screwed
Spiller signing - little impact

Is Tom Jackson or MeShawn Johnson writing this stuff???

lee909 · 03-13-2015, 02:42 PM

Yet if the Giants made the same moves they would be getting praised

arsaint · 03-13-2015, 02:47 PM

Absolutely. NE dumps peeps like week old garbage and are praised for getting better.

BTW, they better be drafting some CBs...

03-13-2015, 05:28 AM	#11
Sarik 100th Post Join Date: May 2012 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 292	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades Originally Posted by jeanpierre Trading Stills makes sense... Look, there is only one, ONE, football... We've had all these receiving weapons that need 10+ touches a game... Ingram has got to have 15+ touches a game to be effective and Khiry is 7-12 touches for your change-of-pace... Then you've got whomever we sign as a scatback on third downs for the wheel routes and flat screens... And you've got the guys who are the third, fourth option who break the oppositions back such as your fullbacks, fourth receiver in 4 sets, second tightend/h-back guys... Stills should command no less than a second round pick with his advanced production for his experience, contract/cap number, skills/abilities... What scares me is Loomis always seems to give everything away; he's like my ex-brother-in-law who paid sticker price at car dealerships... Have no problem trading Stills so long as Payton is sure Toon is ready to be the third WR and we get a second OR... ...one of the first four picks in the third round OR... ...we secretly/conditionally package him with pick no. 13 and we move to pick no. 4 or 5 and select Vic Beasley... the latter is my sincere, though far-fetched, wish... I agree. Always saw Cooks & Stills as essentially the same WR. Great route runners/burners/thrive in the slot/can both play on the outside. In a way he is expendable, only if we land someone else like Devante(my fav offensive prospect in this years draft along with David Johnson). Im Pro defense for this draft but am totally ok with getting parker with pick 13, following it up by drafting Harold/Anthony/Perryman/Dawson with picks 31/44 or watever we receive for a Stills trade.

03-13-2015, 09:15 AM	#12
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades Originally Posted by foreverfan What would you think we will take for Stills? It'd have to be a top 75 pick (no less than early third round) in the draft for this reasoning... First, he's young, and he's entering that magical third year where WRs typically blossom - and don't think NFL front offices don't know this... Second, he's a proven commodity as a reliable route runner and the jets to burn for the big pass play... Third, as a former fifth round pick his contract is miniscule to a team's salary cap - he's major bang for the buck... Now, in another scenario, I could see moving him with pick No. 13 for a top five pick...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

03-13-2015, 01:45 PM	#13
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,043	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades When it comes to grade I'm giving them a WTF?

03-13-2015, 02:06 PM	#14
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades New Orleans Saints: C The Saints appear to be overhauling their offense this offseason, and Spiller is an intriguing pickup because of his outstanding 2012 performance. He ranked second that season among running backs in PFF overall grading, average yards per rush and average yards after contact, while leading the league by forcing a missed tackle on one out of every 3.9 rush attempts. His 94.6 elusive rating remains the highest regular-season rating in eight years of PFF data. However, he has since been on the decline, not showing the same elusiveness, and injuries have been troublesome. He ranked 51st out of 55 running backs in PFF overall grading in 2013 and was injured most of last season. When he was on the field, he earned a negative-5.9 overall grade. If the Saints are still looking to fill the Darren Sproles role in the offense, Spiller has shown the talent to do so if he can regain his 2012 form and stay healthy. But he is more than two years removed from his only season of great play, and Khiry Robinson has already proven to perform well during his limited snaps in the New Orleans offense. Halo likes this.

03-13-2015, 02:10 PM	#15
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades oh my lord.... New Orleans Saints: C-plus The good part of the trade is the third-round pick. The Saints are trying to build a strong defense through the draft at the expense of the pass offense. New Orleans now has five picks in the first three rounds of the 2015 draft, but it came at the expense of Brees' best two receivers in 2014. These trades can pay off for the Saints, but by the time they do someone other than Brees might be at quarterback. As for Ellerbe, while he can be good in coverage, his run defense rating of minus-15.4 was third worst for inside/middle linebackers in 2013. He then played just 18 snaps of 2014 before having a season-ending injury. Even with a restructured contract, the Saints would have been better off just trading Stills for a third, and then signing one of the linebackers left on the free-agent market.

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03-13-2015, 02:22 PM	#16
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades Yeh, that doesn't bring positive vibes at all.

03-13-2015, 02:35 PM	#17
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades As for Ellerbe, while he can be good in coverage, his run defense rating of minus-15.4 was third worst for inside/middle linebackers in 2013. He then played just 18 snaps of 2014 before having a season-ending injury. Even with a restructured contract, the Saints would have been better off just trading Stills for a third, and then signing one of the linebackers left on the free-agent market. i kind of agree with this one. but i have to wait and see the new contract. as for kenny this is another huge void in the passing game. two years ago we saw what happened to drew with a bunch of new faces running routes. no trust what so ever and held onto the ball get the OL fixed ASAP and run the ball draft a OT/OG? Brandon Scherff or La'el Collins or move streif to LG and draft a ROT that can slide over to T if needed? Jake Fisher the saints have not improved the OL. subtract one add one still = 0
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

03-13-2015, 02:38 PM	#18
arsaint Saint Historian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: deep in the bowels of a hidden bunker, somewhere under the brick & steel of a nondescript building.. Posts: 2,698	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades Espn continues to love us. Graham trade - all Seattle Browner signing - won't help Stills trade - we got screwed Spiller signing - little impact Is Tom Jackson or MeShawn Johnson writing this stuff???

03-13-2015, 02:42 PM	#19
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,793 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades Yet if the Giants made the same moves they would be getting praised

03-13-2015, 02:47 PM	#20
arsaint Saint Historian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: deep in the bowels of a hidden bunker, somewhere under the brick & steel of a nondescript building.. Posts: 2,698	Re: Saints Recent Moves - Insider Grades Absolutely. NE dumps peeps like week old garbage and are praised for getting better. BTW, they better be drafting some CBs...

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