Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!!

GumboBC · 01-24-2005, 10:24 PM

Belichick is the new "genius" these days. One of the best ever they say.

But, would he make the Saints a winner? Hmmmm!!!

Jimmy Johnson used to be the reigning genius in the NFL.

Did he make the Dolphins winners? NOPE!!

Why not? Really, why not? I'm all ears!!

Mike Holmgren was a genius once. What happened? Really, what happened?

Mike Shannahan was a genius at one time too. What happened? Come one, tell me!!!

I could go on, but what's the point?

Parcells? Vermil? Dan Reeves? Jim Fossil?

If only it were that simple!!!

ScottyRo · 01-24-2005, 10:29 PM

I think it\'s obvious, BC, that a team is made of more than one unit and each must function well for things to go as well as NE right now. Regardless of the coach, other things must come together. JJ was able to make it happen in Dallas , but wasn\'t in Miami. Maybe he just wasn\'t the same coach. Maybe it was just a different chemistry. Who knows?

FireVenturi · 01-24-2005, 10:29 PM

Belichick is the new \"genius\" these days. One of the best ever they say.

But, would he make the Saints a winner? Hmmmm!!!

Jimmy Johnson used to be the reigning genius in the NFL.

Did he make the Dolphins winners? NOPE!!

Why not? Really, why not? I\'m all ears!!

Mike Holmgren was a genius once. What happened? Really, what happened?

Mike Shannahan was a genius at one time too. What happened? Come one, tell me!!!

I could go on, but what\'s the point?

Parcells? Vermil? Dan Reeves? Jim Fossil?

If only it were that simple!!!

it has to be a combination of front office(draft, Fa) and coaching. Bellichik is a GENIUS!

GumboBC · 01-24-2005, 10:33 PM

ScottyRo -- Very good observation.

FireVenturi -- You and I are definately on the same page.

Proven GMs usually have more success where ever they go. Coaches on the other hand, well, not so much.

That\'s why I want Benson to get a proven GM in here and let him make the decisions.

WhoDat · 01-25-2005, 08:53 AM

Now you\'re trying to belittle the winningest coach in playoff history since Tom Landry to prove that Haslett isn\'t really the problem.

Billy - what, in your opinion, is the biggest problem with this team?

I think this team is mismanaged entirely from top to bottom - and that starts in the front office and with the head coach. But I\'m sure you can make a great argument as to why the root of this team\'s problems boil down to players not performing. The difference is, I believe that it is the coach\'s responsibility to make them perform, and when they don\'t, he must be held accountable first and foremost. You seem to think we should continue to point the finger every which way but at the people who are ulitmately responsible. No wonder you like AB so much.

[Edited on 25/1/2005 by WhoDat]

dberce1 · 01-25-2005, 09:15 AM

Bill Belicheck- Superbowl bound.
Andy Reid- Superbowl bound.

Two of the best coaches in the league, Superbowl bound.

Probably just a coincidence.

GumboBC · 01-25-2005, 11:45 AM

Now you\'re trying to belittle the winningest coach in playoff history since Tom Landry to prove that Haslett isn\'t really the problem.

Billy - what, in your opinion, is the biggest problem with this team?

I think this team is mismanaged entirely from top to bottom - and that starts in the front office and with the head coach. But I\'m sure you can make a great argument as to why the root of this team\'s problems boil down to players not performing. The difference is, I believe that it is the coach\'s responsibility to make them perform, and when they don\'t, he must be held accountable first and foremost. You seem to think we should continue to point the finger every which way but at the people who are ulitmately responsible. No wonder you like AB so much.

[Edited on 25/1/2005 by WhoDat]

WhoDat --

Your way of thinking is so singular. And it can\'t be looked at that way, IMO.

If we apply YOUR logic, then that means Holmgren, Shannahan and Jimmy Johnson are bad coaches that needed to be fired.

That\'s 3 super bowl winning coaches that, according to you, are bad coaches. If we apply YOUR logic then these coaches needed to be fired.

Or, there could be other reasons that have very little to do with coaching.

My entire point here is that sometimes it\'s NOT the coaches fault!!

I\'m NOT saying it isn\'t Haslett\'s fault. I\'m saying MAYBE it\'s not!!

I just can\'t believe that Holmgren, Shannhan and Jimmy Johnson fogot how to coach.

But according to YOUR logic, that\'s exactly what I would have to believe.

Why couldn\'t their be other reasons for Holmgren, Shannahan, of Jimmy Johnson?

And why couldn\'t their be other reasons besides coaching that the Saints aren\'t doing well?

saintswhodi · 01-25-2005, 11:50 AM

And why couldn\'t their be other reasons besides coaching that the Saints aren\'t doing well?

There\'s one glaring reason that is a problem besides coaching. But I will share with you the secrets of Holmgren\'s. Shannahan\'s and Jimmy Johnson\'s Superbowl success. Great qbs. Holmgren won with hall of fame Favre, Shannahan with hall of fame Elway, and Johnson with a hall of fame team but definitely hall of fame Troy Aikman. See the trend. Now that they DON\"T have hall of fame qbs, their success isn\'t the same. So maybe all Haslett needs to do is get himself a hall of fame qb and roll to a Superbowl.

GumboBC · 01-25-2005, 12:09 PM

And why couldn\'t their be other reasons besides coaching that the Saints aren\'t doing well?

There\'s one glaring reason that is a problem besides coaching. But I will share with you the secrets of Holmgren\'s. Shannahan\'s and Jimmy Johnson\'s Superbowl success. Great qbs. Holmgren won with hall of fame Favre, Shannahan with hall of fame Elway, and Johnson with a hall of fame team but definitely hall of fame Troy Aikman. See the trend. Now that they DON\"T have hall of fame qbs, their success isn\'t the same. So maybe all Haslett needs to do is get himself a hall of fame qb and roll to a Superbowl.

No doubt those QB\'s played a large part in their team\'s success.

But, if we use YOUR logic, then Peyton should have already at least made it to the super bowl.

Peyton probably will never have a season as good as this year.

Which just goes to show you it takes much more than just a great QB.

saintswhodi · 01-25-2005, 12:21 PM

Absolutely. There needs to be balance. But of the three coaches you mentioned, they had great qbs. And did Peyton\'s career somehow end this season? He still has plenty of years to win a title. He has only been around what 5, 6 years? How long before Elway won a title? Aikamn was 1-15 his first season. But because you mentioned those coaches, it was east to see the biggest difference on their current coachig performance to their previous success. And again PEYTON\"\'S CAREER IS NOT OVER YET.

01-24-2005, 10:24 PM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! Belichick is the new "genius" these days. One of the best ever they say. But, would he make the Saints a winner? Hmmmm!!! Jimmy Johnson used to be the reigning genius in the NFL. Did he make the Dolphins winners? NOPE!! Why not? Really, why not? I'm all ears!! Mike Holmgren was a genius once. What happened? Really, what happened? Mike Shannahan was a genius at one time too. What happened? Come one, tell me!!! I could go on, but what's the point? Parcells? Vermil? Dan Reeves? Jim Fossil? If only it were that simple!!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-24-2005, 10:29 PM	#2
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! I think it\'s obvious, BC, that a team is made of more than one unit and each must function well for things to go as well as NE right now. Regardless of the coach, other things must come together. JJ was able to make it happen in Dallas , but wasn\'t in Miami. Maybe he just wasn\'t the same coach. Maybe it was just a different chemistry. Who knows?

01-24-2005, 10:29 PM	#3
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! Belichick is the new \"genius\" these days. One of the best ever they say. But, would he make the Saints a winner? Hmmmm!!! Jimmy Johnson used to be the reigning genius in the NFL. Did he make the Dolphins winners? NOPE!! Why not? Really, why not? I\'m all ears!! Mike Holmgren was a genius once. What happened? Really, what happened? Mike Shannahan was a genius at one time too. What happened? Come one, tell me!!! I could go on, but what\'s the point? Parcells? Vermil? Dan Reeves? Jim Fossil? If only it were that simple!!! it has to be a combination of front office(draft, Fa) and coaching. Bellichik is a GENIUS!

01-24-2005, 10:33 PM	#4
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! ScottyRo -- Very good observation. FireVenturi -- You and I are definately on the same page. Proven GMs usually have more success where ever they go. Coaches on the other hand, well, not so much. That\'s why I want Benson to get a proven GM in here and let him make the decisions.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-25-2005, 08:53 AM	#5
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! Now you\'re trying to belittle the winningest coach in playoff history since Tom Landry to prove that Haslett isn\'t really the problem. Billy - what, in your opinion, is the biggest problem with this team? I think this team is mismanaged entirely from top to bottom - and that starts in the front office and with the head coach. But I\'m sure you can make a great argument as to why the root of this team\'s problems boil down to players not performing. The difference is, I believe that it is the coach\'s responsibility to make them perform, and when they don\'t, he must be held accountable first and foremost. You seem to think we should continue to point the finger every which way but at the people who are ulitmately responsible. No wonder you like AB so much. [Edited on 25/1/2005 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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01-25-2005, 09:15 AM	#6
dberce1 Chuck Liddells Right Hand Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Prairieville, Louisiana Posts: 1,227	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! Bill Belicheck- Superbowl bound. Andy Reid- Superbowl bound. Two of the best coaches in the league, Superbowl bound. Probably just a coincidence.

01-25-2005, 11:45 AM	#7
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! Now you\'re trying to belittle the winningest coach in playoff history since Tom Landry to prove that Haslett isn\'t really the problem. Billy - what, in your opinion, is the biggest problem with this team? I think this team is mismanaged entirely from top to bottom - and that starts in the front office and with the head coach. But I\'m sure you can make a great argument as to why the root of this team\'s problems boil down to players not performing. The difference is, I believe that it is the coach\'s responsibility to make them perform, and when they don\'t, he must be held accountable first and foremost. You seem to think we should continue to point the finger every which way but at the people who are ulitmately responsible. No wonder you like AB so much. [Edited on 25/1/2005 by WhoDat] WhoDat -- Your way of thinking is so singular. And it can\'t be looked at that way, IMO. If we apply YOUR logic, then that means Holmgren, Shannahan and Jimmy Johnson are bad coaches that needed to be fired. That\'s 3 super bowl winning coaches that, according to you, are bad coaches. If we apply YOUR logic then these coaches needed to be fired. Or, there could be other reasons that have very little to do with coaching. My entire point here is that sometimes it\'s NOT the coaches fault!! I\'m NOT saying it isn\'t Haslett\'s fault. I\'m saying MAYBE it\'s not!! I just can\'t believe that Holmgren, Shannhan and Jimmy Johnson fogot how to coach. But according to YOUR logic, that\'s exactly what I would have to believe. Why couldn\'t their be other reasons for Holmgren, Shannahan, of Jimmy Johnson? And why couldn\'t their be other reasons besides coaching that the Saints aren\'t doing well?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-25-2005, 11:50 AM	#8
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! And why couldn\'t their be other reasons besides coaching that the Saints aren\'t doing well? There\'s one glaring reason that is a problem besides coaching. But I will share with you the secrets of Holmgren\'s. Shannahan\'s and Jimmy Johnson\'s Superbowl success. Great qbs. Holmgren won with hall of fame Favre, Shannahan with hall of fame Elway, and Johnson with a hall of fame team but definitely hall of fame Troy Aikman. See the trend. Now that they DON\"T have hall of fame qbs, their success isn\'t the same. So maybe all Haslett needs to do is get himself a hall of fame qb and roll to a Superbowl.

01-25-2005, 12:09 PM	#9
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! And why couldn\'t their be other reasons besides coaching that the Saints aren\'t doing well? There\'s one glaring reason that is a problem besides coaching. But I will share with you the secrets of Holmgren\'s. Shannahan\'s and Jimmy Johnson\'s Superbowl success. Great qbs. Holmgren won with hall of fame Favre, Shannahan with hall of fame Elway, and Johnson with a hall of fame team but definitely hall of fame Troy Aikman. See the trend. Now that they DON\"T have hall of fame qbs, their success isn\'t the same. So maybe all Haslett needs to do is get himself a hall of fame qb and roll to a Superbowl. No doubt those QB\'s played a large part in their team\'s success. But, if we use YOUR logic, then Peyton should have already at least made it to the super bowl. Peyton probably will never have a season as good as this year. Which just goes to show you it takes much more than just a great QB.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-25-2005, 12:21 PM	#10
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why "coaching" sometimes isn't the answer!! Absolutely. There needs to be balance. But of the three coaches you mentioned, they had great qbs. And did Peyton\'s career somehow end this season? He still has plenty of years to win a title. He has only been around what 5, 6 years? How long before Elway won a title? Aikamn was 1-15 his first season. But because you mentioned those coaches, it was east to see the biggest difference on their current coachig performance to their previous success. And again PEYTON\"\'S CAREER IS NOT OVER YET.