Fans and decisions

GumboBC · 01-25-2005, 02:17 PM

Decisions are sometimes very difficult in life. One decision, good or bad, can affect a persons life forever.

I've found that to be true in every day life and I've found that to be especially true in business.

Problems are encountered on a number of fronts.

I've always believed the problems one encounters are not nearly as important as how they are handled. Problem solving is a key in any aspect of life. Especially business.

And just like in business, you can apply that to football.

When things aren't going as planned, something needs to change.

But I've found that most of the time drasitic changes usually aren't in order. Sometimes it just takes a little tweak here or a little tweak there.

Then there are cases where a complete overhaul is in order!!

Sometimes it's hard to tell.....

One thing is for sure, though. Making changes for changes sake can be the death of a company.

Things must be analyzed very carefully and by someone who understands the "business."

It's not always the obvious. It's not always the guy at the top whose fault it is. Sure, that guy ultimately must be held accountable ... but ... other factors must be considerd FIRST!!

You don't want to get rid of a guy who may be the most qualified just because you need to hold someone accountable.

What I'm saying is you can never be closed minded and you must be willing to look past the normal finger pointing!!

How many of us can say for sure Haslett isn't a good coach?

How many of us can say for sure McCarthy isn't a good coordinator?

If you're honest, you can't say for sure.

We are only fans with no real insight.

If you were having problems with your marriage, would you listen to some outsider who knows very little about your marriage? I think not!!

Then why do you think some fan, any fan, knows how to fix the Saints' problems?

Sure, there are obvious things you can see wrong on the field. And you're right about some of them.

But, it's always easy to second guess the play-calling. And it's always easy to belittle a coach for picking a player who didn't work out. Hindsight is 20-20.

We're never going to all agree on what the Saints problems are. But it's never good to state as an absolute fact that you know what the problems are and not stay open-minded.

I used to think that Brooks was the absolute answer at QB. But, I don't know that for sure.

Things change from year to year and one particular year sometimes has nothing to do with the next.

Haslett, McCarthy, Venturi, and Brooks might all need to go. Then again the problem might not be related to any of them. Or it might only be one of them.

The only thing I can say with some certainty is I hope there is someone in the Saints' front office who is qualified to correct these problems. Cause we as fans are not qualified to do so.

RDOX · 01-25-2005, 06:45 PM

PS: You know I\'m playing right? I re-read this thread and it seems harsh, but I didn\'t intend it be. I\'m not angry and I\'m not knocking you, I just disagree with alot of your thread. On a positive note it made me think about a few things, which is a good thing.

Just didn\'t want you to go ballistic like I would. I wrote this without malice, trust me.

Be prepared for the great circular argument. I\'m against what I\'m for and I\'m for what I\'m against, just so long as you look at ME!! :casstet:

GumboBC · 01-26-2005, 07:23 PM

Gator --

I didn\'t think you were too harsh. I just think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

Here\'s the deal...

I\'m not saying I\'m any more qualified than any fan.

I\'m saying NONE of us have enough insight to make the ultimate decisions for this team.

Now, as fans, we have every right to state our opinions. Hey, that\'s what fans do. And I enjoy hearing those opinions.

If you really read my posts on this board, you\'ll notice I argue both sides of the arguements sometimes.

Why? Because there are no DEFINATE right or wrong arguements about MOST things.

Sometimes I might agree with a certain statement but disagree about the reasons why a fan comes to that conclusion!!

What I believe is that we can win with Haslett, but I also believe we MIGHT be better off with another coach.

So, when someone tells me I\'m an idiot for saying we can win with Haslett, then, you have to look past that and keep arguing your point.

[Edited on 27/1/2005 by GumboBC]

spkb25 · 01-26-2005, 08:22 PM

my question is how long do you give a coach. hes had some years. and i dont think it is all has. as obvious by the team playing bad for 12 games then turning it on for 4. but either way you see it that is still a problem. how mnay times can we end up in the 8-8 category. but to me everrything does start at the top. that is where people are most accountable. that is also why they make more money then most. if you make the money then you are ultimately accountbale. and the simple fact to me is that we havent done what we have the ability to do. so the blame starts some where. i am willing to give has one more year based on the last 4 games. if we dont play that way the first 8 of next season then we have to at that point start looking somewhere else.

GumboBC · 01-26-2005, 08:30 PM

my question is how long do you give a coach. hes had some years. and i dont think it is all has. as obvious by the team playing bad for 12 games then turning it on for 4. but either way you see it that is still a problem. how mnay times can we end up in the 8-8 category. but to me everrything does start at the top. that is where people are most accountable. that is also why they make more money then most. if you make the money then you are ultimately accountbale. and the simple fact to me is that we havent done what we have the ability to do. so the blame starts some where. i am willing to give has one more year based on the last 4 games. if we dont play that way the first 8 of next season then we have to at that point start looking somewhere else.

spkb25 --

I must say, its been quite a while for Haslett and he hasn\'t gotten it done.

Maybe Haslett does need to go. Maybe it\'s not all his fault and its just time for a change to find out?!

But honestly, I do see a lot of other factors. And anyone who doesn\'t just isn\'t looking hard enough, IMHO.

I get mad as hell at Haslett. I\'ve called for his head myself.

I\'m just on the fence and I\'m willing to see what happens.

I would have had NO problem if Haslett would have gotten fired.

But, I\'m still in his corner.

spkb25 · 01-26-2005, 09:00 PM

well dumbo if you read every bit of my argument i said in there that he cant be responsible for us being 4-8 and then also be responsible for us winning our next four. but you would have to read my entire post to see that. has has had enough time to build a championship. its up to him and the team at this point to make us happy. he does not desrve an extension. but im willing to give him one more year

GumboBC · 01-26-2005, 09:08 PM

spkb25--

I\'m going to chill out with you before you get yourself banned. No one wants that. Not even me.

spkb25 · 01-26-2005, 09:11 PM

gumbo i think you see my point. and what would i be banned for, being honest. i dont think so.

saintswhodi · 01-26-2005, 09:20 PM

Dude, I NEVER agree with Gumbo, but he is right on this one. You should chill. I like you man, and I know you are frustrated, but you are going places you don\'t need to go. Gumbo\'s point at times is to frustrate people, just counter with good logic or ignore it. But don\'t let it get you this fired up. I don\'t know if you can delete that other post, but you should.

JOESAM2002 · 01-27-2005, 10:00 AM

spkb, you can be banned for calling other members names. We don\'t want to but it can be done. So chill out on the making new names for other members please.

[Edited on 27/1/2005 by JOESAM2002]

01-25-2005, 02:17 PM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Fans and decisions Decisions are sometimes very difficult in life. One decision, good or bad, can affect a persons life forever. I've found that to be true in every day life and I've found that to be especially true in business. Problems are encountered on a number of fronts. I've always believed the problems one encounters are not nearly as important as how they are handled. Problem solving is a key in any aspect of life. Especially business. And just like in business, you can apply that to football. When things aren't going as planned, something needs to change. But I've found that most of the time drasitic changes usually aren't in order. Sometimes it just takes a little tweak here or a little tweak there. Then there are cases where a complete overhaul is in order!! Sometimes it's hard to tell..... One thing is for sure, though. Making changes for changes sake can be the death of a company. Things must be analyzed very carefully and by someone who understands the "business." It's not always the obvious. It's not always the guy at the top whose fault it is. Sure, that guy ultimately must be held accountable ... but ... other factors must be considerd FIRST!! You don't want to get rid of a guy who may be the most qualified just because you need to hold someone accountable. What I'm saying is you can never be closed minded and you must be willing to look past the normal finger pointing!! How many of us can say for sure Haslett isn't a good coach? How many of us can say for sure McCarthy isn't a good coordinator? If you're honest, you can't say for sure. We are only fans with no real insight. If you were having problems with your marriage, would you listen to some outsider who knows very little about your marriage? I think not!! Then why do you think some fan, any fan, knows how to fix the Saints' problems? Sure, there are obvious things you can see wrong on the field. And you're right about some of them. But, it's always easy to second guess the play-calling. And it's always easy to belittle a coach for picking a player who didn't work out. Hindsight is 20-20. We're never going to all agree on what the Saints problems are. But it's never good to state as an absolute fact that you know what the problems are and not stay open-minded. I used to think that Brooks was the absolute answer at QB. But, I don't know that for sure. Things change from year to year and one particular year sometimes has nothing to do with the next. Haslett, McCarthy, Venturi, and Brooks might all need to go. Then again the problem might not be related to any of them. Or it might only be one of them. The only thing I can say with some certainty is I hope there is someone in the Saints' front office who is qualified to correct these problems. Cause we as fans are not qualified to do so.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-25-2005, 06:45 PM	#2
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Fans and decisions PS: You know I\'m playing right? I re-read this thread and it seems harsh, but I didn\'t intend it be. I\'m not angry and I\'m not knocking you, I just disagree with alot of your thread. On a positive note it made me think about a few things, which is a good thing. Just didn\'t want you to go ballistic like I would. I wrote this without malice, trust me. Be prepared for the great circular argument. I\'m against what I\'m for and I\'m for what I\'m against, just so long as you look at ME!! :casstet:
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

01-26-2005, 07:23 PM	#3
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Fans and decisions Gator -- I didn\'t think you were too harsh. I just think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Here\'s the deal... I\'m not saying I\'m any more qualified than any fan. I\'m saying NONE of us have enough insight to make the ultimate decisions for this team. Now, as fans, we have every right to state our opinions. Hey, that\'s what fans do. And I enjoy hearing those opinions. If you really read my posts on this board, you\'ll notice I argue both sides of the arguements sometimes. Why? Because there are no DEFINATE right or wrong arguements about MOST things. Sometimes I might agree with a certain statement but disagree about the reasons why a fan comes to that conclusion!! What I believe is that we can win with Haslett, but I also believe we MIGHT be better off with another coach. So, when someone tells me I\'m an idiot for saying we can win with Haslett, then, you have to look past that and keep arguing your point. [Edited on 27/1/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-26-2005, 08:22 PM	#4
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	Fans and decisions my question is how long do you give a coach. hes had some years. and i dont think it is all has. as obvious by the team playing bad for 12 games then turning it on for 4. but either way you see it that is still a problem. how mnay times can we end up in the 8-8 category. but to me everrything does start at the top. that is where people are most accountable. that is also why they make more money then most. if you make the money then you are ultimately accountbale. and the simple fact to me is that we havent done what we have the ability to do. so the blame starts some where. i am willing to give has one more year based on the last 4 games. if we dont play that way the first 8 of next season then we have to at that point start looking somewhere else.
	Your team stinks

01-26-2005, 08:30 PM	#5
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Fans and decisions my question is how long do you give a coach. hes had some years. and i dont think it is all has. as obvious by the team playing bad for 12 games then turning it on for 4. but either way you see it that is still a problem. how mnay times can we end up in the 8-8 category. but to me everrything does start at the top. that is where people are most accountable. that is also why they make more money then most. if you make the money then you are ultimately accountbale. and the simple fact to me is that we havent done what we have the ability to do. so the blame starts some where. i am willing to give has one more year based on the last 4 games. if we dont play that way the first 8 of next season then we have to at that point start looking somewhere else. spkb25 -- I must say, its been quite a while for Haslett and he hasn\'t gotten it done. Maybe Haslett does need to go. Maybe it\'s not all his fault and its just time for a change to find out?! But honestly, I do see a lot of other factors. And anyone who doesn\'t just isn\'t looking hard enough, IMHO. I get mad as hell at Haslett. I\'ve called for his head myself. I\'m just on the fence and I\'m willing to see what happens. I would have had NO problem if Haslett would have gotten fired. But, I\'m still in his corner.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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01-26-2005, 09:00 PM	#6
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	Fans and decisions well dumbo if you read every bit of my argument i said in there that he cant be responsible for us being 4-8 and then also be responsible for us winning our next four. but you would have to read my entire post to see that. has has had enough time to build a championship. its up to him and the team at this point to make us happy. he does not desrve an extension. but im willing to give him one more year

01-26-2005, 09:08 PM	#7
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Fans and decisions spkb25-- I\'m going to chill out with you before you get yourself banned. No one wants that. Not even me.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-26-2005, 09:11 PM	#8
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	Fans and decisions gumbo i think you see my point. and what would i be banned for, being honest. i dont think so.

01-26-2005, 09:20 PM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Fans and decisions Dude, I NEVER agree with Gumbo, but he is right on this one. You should chill. I like you man, and I know you are frustrated, but you are going places you don\'t need to go. Gumbo\'s point at times is to frustrate people, just counter with good logic or ignore it. But don\'t let it get you this fired up. I don\'t know if you can delete that other post, but you should.

01-27-2005, 10:00 AM	#10
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Fans and decisions spkb, you can be banned for calling other members names. We don\'t want to but it can be done. So chill out on the making new names for other members please. [Edited on 27/1/2005 by JOESAM2002]