Games are won and lost in the trenches

GumboBC · 01-29-2005, 08:05 PM

I don't know what anyone's knowledge of the game is. Nor do I care to question anyone's knowledge. Heck, I spend enough time defending my own knowledge...

Never-the-less, I'm going to set myself up to be questioned, again!!

I've always believed in the ol' cliche'.....

"Games are won and lost in the trenches."

I believe it all starts up front with the offensive and defensive lines.

And I also believe when a team has poor offensive and defensive lines, that's where most of the "inconsistency" comes from. And I've heard many NFL coaches who share that same view.

Every player has a job to do but its usually the QB, receiever, runningback, or one of the other so-called "skilled" position players who receives most of the attention.

But- it's my opinion that the so-called "skilled" players are only as good as the guys in the "trenches."

A QB's best friend isn't the receivers, it's the offensive line.

Maybe that's why QB's spend thousand of bucks on rolex's or other fancy gifts for their offensive linemen?! That is, when they do a good job of protecting them!!

Runningbacks also appreciate a good offensive line. Lets face it.. its much easier to run though a big hole than getting met behind the line of scrimmage! Ouch!!

Yet, it seems that offensive and defensive linemen never get the credit they deserve. But, then again, sometimes they don't get the BLAME they deserve either.

Some players are able to do well without a good line. Barry Sanders and Mike Vick come to mind. But- how often do those "type" players come along? Not often enough.

If I were putting together a team, I would probably start by drafting a QB.

But, unless I had an offensive line who could protect him, I'd start another QB and let the rookie QB learn.

The next thing I would do is get an offensive line who could protect my "prized" QB so that he would have a CHANCE to be successful.

I wonder how many offensive linemen recieved "rolexs" from their QBs?

If your teams offensive linemen didn't receive one, then your QB probably had a sub-par year.

baronm · 01-29-2005, 08:34 PM

If your teams offensive linemen didn\'t receive one, then your QB probably had a sub-par year.

you know i\'ve often wondered if brooks has tried this..if his team will play for him..or if he\'s like an ex mississippi state qb who the line would open up atleast one time a game so that he would get rocked.

my point is that if the QB isn\'t willing to take part of the credit and starts blasting his teammates like brooks did toward the end of the season..then his line won\'t play for him..and if brooks does stuff like that, is he wiling to pony up and give his line gifts-therefore admiting that he needs someone else to help him look good? in other words does our qb realize that he\'s playing a team game or just interested in his stats?

THe line is very important..very!! and the qb\'s who succeed are the ones who pamper their linemen...

I\'m not so sure brooks has gotten this memo.

Euphoria · 01-31-2005, 12:08 PM

Brooks really hasn\'t called anyone out to why they lost but keeping with company lines such as \"we didn\'t get it done\".

I do agree that games are won in the trenches... but you also have to have great game planning and match-ups as well as the football gods shining on you that day. Indy can win games with talent and match-ups but can\'t go anywhere when it counts due to those lines SUCK!

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 12:50 PM

Brooks really hasn\'t called anyone out to why they lost but keeping with company lines such as \"we didn\'t get it done\".

Umm, I am great my teams sucks is not calling anyone out? Whose company line is that? That\'s liek Haslett saying he is a great coach but the team sucks. He would get his head beat in.

GumboBC · 01-31-2005, 01:17 PM

Brooks really hasn\'t called anyone out to why they lost but keeping with company lines such as \"we didn\'t get it done\".

Umm, I am great my teams sucks is not calling anyone out? Whose company line is that? That\'s liek Haslett saying he is a great coach but the team sucks. He would get his head beat in.

Let\'s see....

What did Parcells say this year?

My team is stupid and it\'s not the coaching that\'s the problem.

I agree that Parcells had a bunch of players who played stupidly.

I also agree with Brooks about the defense. They were absolutely killing the team. Somebody needed to say it.

Hey, we all said the samething. I think we all agree with Brooks on that. Maybe Charles Grant didn\'t like to hear it, but so what!!

Brooks thinks he\'s a great QB. So what?

I\'ve certainly heard other QB make much more of an azz out of themselves than Brooks.

Like, oh..... Kurt Warner. Let me get my wife to stand up for me and let me come cry to the media.

Or, Chad Pennington. The media doesn\'t have a right to criticize me. Ring a bell, folks?

Or Ryan Leaf? Hello!!!

Or Eli Manning. Let me get my daddy to take care of me. The Chargers aren\'t good enough for a \"Manning\" to play on.

Geeeeez!!

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 01:23 PM

Okay, but he didn\'t call out the defense, he called out the TEAM outside of himself. See the difference.

Also, of everyone you mentioned, find me a quote where ANY of them called themselves a great qb. ANY ONE OF THEM. Then show me in the same quote where they say their team sucks. ANY ONE OF THEM. then show me a false love quote from ANY ONE OF THEM. Warner has a Superbowl Ring does he not? Who cares if his WIFE can\'t keep her mouth shut.

Parcells has how many SUPERBOWL RINGS? I think that gives him the right to criticize anyoen he wants. Where do you come up with this stuff?

saintfan · 01-31-2005, 01:29 PM

Did Brooks say the team \"sucks\". I read a LOT of articles and I dont\' recall reading that. hmmmmmm.......

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 01:40 PM

So, I am great and my team is STRUGGLING AND INCONSISTENT somehow denotes he is behind his team\'s great play? Maybe I read it wrong.

GumboBC · 01-31-2005, 01:50 PM

So, I am great and my team is STRUGGLING AND INCONSISTENT somehow denotes he is behind his team\'s great play? Maybe I read it wrong.

You\'re not reading it wrong. You just aren\'t putting it in contenxt.

The whole thing came up before the last game against Jake and the Panthers. Everyone was comparing Brooks to Delhomme.

Brooks said Jake was a fine QB who played on a great team that went to the super bowl. And Brooks\' implied that the Panthers\' \"team\" was mostly responsible for them going to the super bowl. And that was proved this year when the defense and Stephen Davis didn\'t perform like last year.

Then Brooks said he was a great QB on a below average team. I don\'t know if Brooks is great. But, I do know he\'s on a below average team.

Unlike, you, saintwhodi, I don\'t think we have a great team.

saintswhodi · 01-31-2005, 02:00 PM

Keep saying that last line, maybe you will believe it. You know I said we have the best offensive team in our history the past 5 years, but read into it any way you want. It doesn\'t bother me. Just makes your points less valid if you can continually be wrong about that.

What context do I need to know about a QB who isn\'t even good calling himself great and his team crap in the middle of a 3 game winning streak and possible playoff berth? Context? ha

You don\'t know if Brooks is great? What? Let me tell ya, he ain\'t and is far from it.

01-29-2005, 08:05 PM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Games are won and lost in the trenches I don't know what anyone's knowledge of the game is. Nor do I care to question anyone's knowledge. Heck, I spend enough time defending my own knowledge... Never-the-less, I'm going to set myself up to be questioned, again!! I've always believed in the ol' cliche'..... "Games are won and lost in the trenches." I believe it all starts up front with the offensive and defensive lines. And I also believe when a team has poor offensive and defensive lines, that's where most of the "inconsistency" comes from. And I've heard many NFL coaches who share that same view. Every player has a job to do but its usually the QB, receiever, runningback, or one of the other so-called "skilled" position players who receives most of the attention. But- it's my opinion that the so-called "skilled" players are only as good as the guys in the "trenches." A QB's best friend isn't the receivers, it's the offensive line. Maybe that's why QB's spend thousand of bucks on rolex's or other fancy gifts for their offensive linemen?! That is, when they do a good job of protecting them!! Runningbacks also appreciate a good offensive line. Lets face it.. its much easier to run though a big hole than getting met behind the line of scrimmage! Ouch!! Yet, it seems that offensive and defensive linemen never get the credit they deserve. But, then again, sometimes they don't get the BLAME they deserve either. Some players are able to do well without a good line. Barry Sanders and Mike Vick come to mind. But- how often do those "type" players come along? Not often enough. If I were putting together a team, I would probably start by drafting a QB. But, unless I had an offensive line who could protect him, I'd start another QB and let the rookie QB learn. The next thing I would do is get an offensive line who could protect my "prized" QB so that he would have a CHANCE to be successful. I wonder how many offensive linemen recieved "rolexs" from their QBs? If your teams offensive linemen didn't receive one, then your QB probably had a sub-par year.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-29-2005, 08:34 PM	#2
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Games are won and lost in the trenches If your teams offensive linemen didn\'t receive one, then your QB probably had a sub-par year. you know i\'ve often wondered if brooks has tried this..if his team will play for him..or if he\'s like an ex mississippi state qb who the line would open up atleast one time a game so that he would get rocked. my point is that if the QB isn\'t willing to take part of the credit and starts blasting his teammates like brooks did toward the end of the season..then his line won\'t play for him..and if brooks does stuff like that, is he wiling to pony up and give his line gifts-therefore admiting that he needs someone else to help him look good? in other words does our qb realize that he\'s playing a team game or just interested in his stats? THe line is very important..very!! and the qb\'s who succeed are the ones who pamper their linemen... I\'m not so sure brooks has gotten this memo.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

01-31-2005, 12:08 PM	#3
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Games are won and lost in the trenches Brooks really hasn\'t called anyone out to why they lost but keeping with company lines such as \"we didn\'t get it done\". I do agree that games are won in the trenches... but you also have to have great game planning and match-ups as well as the football gods shining on you that day. Indy can win games with talent and match-ups but can\'t go anywhere when it counts due to those lines SUCK!

01-31-2005, 12:50 PM	#4
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Games are won and lost in the trenches Brooks really hasn\'t called anyone out to why they lost but keeping with company lines such as \"we didn\'t get it done\". Umm, I am great my teams sucks is not calling anyone out? Whose company line is that? That\'s liek Haslett saying he is a great coach but the team sucks. He would get his head beat in.

01-31-2005, 01:17 PM	#5
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Games are won and lost in the trenches Brooks really hasn\'t called anyone out to why they lost but keeping with company lines such as \"we didn\'t get it done\". Umm, I am great my teams sucks is not calling anyone out? Whose company line is that? That\'s liek Haslett saying he is a great coach but the team sucks. He would get his head beat in. Let\'s see.... What did Parcells say this year? My team is stupid and it\'s not the coaching that\'s the problem. I agree that Parcells had a bunch of players who played stupidly. I also agree with Brooks about the defense. They were absolutely killing the team. Somebody needed to say it. Hey, we all said the samething. I think we all agree with Brooks on that. Maybe Charles Grant didn\'t like to hear it, but so what!! Brooks thinks he\'s a great QB. So what? I\'ve certainly heard other QB make much more of an azz out of themselves than Brooks. Like, oh..... Kurt Warner. Let me get my wife to stand up for me and let me come cry to the media. Or, Chad Pennington. The media doesn\'t have a right to criticize me. Ring a bell, folks? Or Ryan Leaf? Hello!!! Or Eli Manning. Let me get my daddy to take care of me. The Chargers aren\'t good enough for a \"Manning\" to play on. Geeeeez!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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01-31-2005, 01:23 PM	#6
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Games are won and lost in the trenches Okay, but he didn\'t call out the defense, he called out the TEAM outside of himself. See the difference. Also, of everyone you mentioned, find me a quote where ANY of them called themselves a great qb. ANY ONE OF THEM. Then show me in the same quote where they say their team sucks. ANY ONE OF THEM. then show me a false love quote from ANY ONE OF THEM. Warner has a Superbowl Ring does he not? Who cares if his WIFE can\'t keep her mouth shut. Parcells has how many SUPERBOWL RINGS? I think that gives him the right to criticize anyoen he wants. Where do you come up with this stuff?

01-31-2005, 01:29 PM	#7
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Games are won and lost in the trenches Did Brooks say the team \"sucks\". I read a LOT of articles and I dont\' recall reading that. hmmmmmm.......

01-31-2005, 01:40 PM	#8
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Games are won and lost in the trenches So, I am great and my team is STRUGGLING AND INCONSISTENT somehow denotes he is behind his team\'s great play? Maybe I read it wrong.

01-31-2005, 01:50 PM	#9
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Games are won and lost in the trenches So, I am great and my team is STRUGGLING AND INCONSISTENT somehow denotes he is behind his team\'s great play? Maybe I read it wrong. You\'re not reading it wrong. You just aren\'t putting it in contenxt. The whole thing came up before the last game against Jake and the Panthers. Everyone was comparing Brooks to Delhomme. Brooks said Jake was a fine QB who played on a great team that went to the super bowl. And Brooks\' implied that the Panthers\' \"team\" was mostly responsible for them going to the super bowl. And that was proved this year when the defense and Stephen Davis didn\'t perform like last year. Then Brooks said he was a great QB on a below average team. I don\'t know if Brooks is great. But, I do know he\'s on a below average team. Unlike, you, saintwhodi, I don\'t think we have a great team.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-31-2005, 02:00 PM	#10
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Games are won and lost in the trenches Keep saying that last line, maybe you will believe it. You know I said we have the best offensive team in our history the past 5 years, but read into it any way you want. It doesn\'t bother me. Just makes your points less valid if you can continually be wrong about that. What context do I need to know about a QB who isn\'t even good calling himself great and his team crap in the middle of a 3 game winning streak and possible playoff berth? Context? ha You don\'t know if Brooks is great? What? Let me tell ya, he ain\'t and is far from it.