Evaluating our offense
 

Some Saints' fans seem to be under the impression that our offense is this extremely talented squad.

But- is it?

Let's look and see...

Runningbacks:

Deuce- One of the best backs in the league. When he is healthy. That wasn't the case this year as we ranked 26th in the NFL in rushing. Still, we're in good shape here as long as Decue stays healthy. Stecker is more of a 3rd down back who hasn't proven he can carry the load if Deuce is injured for a prolonged period of time.

Receievers:

Joe Horn: Proven #1 receiver. Makes clutch catches and makes big plays. However, Horn is not in the "elite" catorgory such as a Terrell Owens or Randy Moss. Horn is definately one of the top 10 or 15 receivers in the game, IMO.

Donte' Stallworth: Has big play potential. Still very raw as a receiever even though he's been in the league for 3 years. Mainly due to the fact he was injured for the better part of his first 2 seasons. Has trouble holding on to the ball and seems to disappear in many games. But he is improving as a #2 receiever.

Pathon: Solid number 3 receiver. Nothing spectacular. Then again, not many # 3 receivers are game changers.


Offensive line:

Gandy: Showing signs of age...big time. No longer able to get it done. Tries to come of the ball too qucikly to compensate for his slow legs, thus, drawing too many offside penalties.

Victor Riley: Has the size but not the speed. Not a smart player who doesn't seem to have the motivation. Leads all NFL linemen for false start penalties.

Le Charles Bentley: Probowl guard who was moved to center where he really struggled. Got better as the season went on but was only average then.

The rest of the offensive linemen are hardly above average. Montre Holland seems to be a good at run blocking but really struggles in pass protection.


Though many Saints fans might think we have all this talent on offense, I just don't see it as that talented. We have some great speed at some postions, but I don't know that we have great players.

There's great potential...

While Brooks has his problems, I don't think he's the one holding this potential back.

Maybe coaching is the problem? Maybe the players just aren't that good. I don't know. But I do know this "potential" isn't doing too much.

Evaluating our offense
 

i agree about bentley-he needs to go back to guard where he excelled.

duece has always been injured-I think they can get a good rb in the lower rounds of the draft to be a backup..I would love to team duece up with rudy johnson..but i doubt that\'s happening. I think we could have 2 100 yard rushers.

you forgot:

Quarterback
Brooks-who would\'ve been benched a while back on most teams. is highly inconsistent and is a rally killer who seems cares more about his own stats than his teams success.

Evaluating our offense
 

From the front page article here. Seems the Saints aren\'t as sold on Brooks as even you. Should we trust their opinion Gumbo?

Evaluating our offense
 

Nic epost baron. gumbo OFTEN forgets ANY criticism of AB. The world has it out for AB, and some on this board started the conspiracy and have poisoned the minds of the national media, and apparently some within this very organization. How diabolical.

Evaluating our offense
 

and TEs

conwell good clubhouse presence but diminishing skills. boo dropped a lotta balls it looked like to me. he\'s still much more potential than production. hilton looks like a decent developing project.

Evaluating our offense
 

also, pathon is a goner unless signing a friendlier contract. so joe, stallworth, and (gulp) devery-talman-beerman.

the line sure went from strength to less than mediocre fast. or was it fat as in riley\'s case?

Evaluating our offense
 

I didn\'t want to make this about Brooks. Seems there\'s many threads already devoted to that subject.

Evaluating our offense
 

QB is a position on the offense, unfortunately for us.

Evaluating our offense
 

Get involved in the SD situation would be fine by me, but if we bring in Kurt Warner to replace Ab...well that would stink!!!!!!

Evaluating our offense
 

Ab for Julian Petersen straight-up(b wit Mcarthy) and Howard for Brees straight up!

Evaluating our offense
 

Gumbo, I assume your intent is to point out that we didn\'t really under-achieve, we just didn\'t really have talent. The coaches didn\'t really have much to work with. There\'s no question in my mind the offense underachieved, everyone should get a C based on outcome. So I don\'t see what you\'re trying to get at. But here\'s a snapshot of the talent going into the season.

QB-More than adequate, needed to work on consistency. Grade B
RB-Deuce is as good as any RB in the league. Stecker is a perfect compliment-Grade A
FB-Solid rookie, Hard to give a rookie much more than a C though. Grade C
TE-Boo was on pace to flirt with a pro-bowl.
Conwell, a proven vet, consistent througout career.
Hall-Devastating blocker and great. Grade-B
WR-I can\'t think of another team as loaded at WR from top to bottom as this team was. Grade-A
O-Line- Riley flirted with a pro bowl last year. Gandy has always been solid, although unspectacular. Bentley a pro-bowler.Holand, a road-grater entering 2nd year. This unit probably had as much TALENT as any on this team except RB. This line was loaded when the season began. Grade-B plus

Now lets look at what happened.
Brooks-Underachieved by anyone\'s measure
Deuce-Underachieved, no question
Karney-good year
Horn-spectacular
Donte-good consistent year
Pathon-decent year for a 3rd WR
Boo-Horribly Underachieved
Conwell-Underachieved
Riley-Underachieved, to say the least
Gandy-Underachieved
Holland-Underachieved
Jacox-Underachieved
Bentley-Underachieved early due to position switch, came on late.

Looks to me like we have a very talented roster that underachieved. Not as bad as the defense, but without question didn\'t play to their capabilities

Evaluating our offense
 

Danno --

Certain players underachieved. No doubt about it.

But, I think SOME folks think there\'s much more talent on the offense that what it is.

Boo Wiliams -- He hasn\'t ever done much. Until he does it, I don\'t know what he can do and thus have no way of knowing if Boo will ever do anything above average.

Donte\': He\'s never done too much. Until Donte\' ever makes the impact he should, then I don\'t know if he will EVER do it. I\'d like to think he could do it, but he hasn\'t done it and who\'s to say he ever will?

Riley: I\'ve seen enough of him to know I want him to do it somewhere esle.

Conwell: Done nothing but drop passes since he\'s been a Saint. Maybe he\'s done. Sure looks like it to me.

Gandy: Showing signs of age and is well below average at this point.

All I see is Horn and Deuce that I know can get the job done.

I don\'t know that all the coaching in the world is ever going to get Donte and Boo to perform up to the way we \"think\" they can play.

At this point there\'s only hope.

FB-- He did okay for a rookie. He\'s hardly a game changer, though.

How can you give our WR\'s an \'A\' ? On potential, yes!! On performance..........\'C\'.

Look, I\'m not talking about potential here. I\'m talking about performance up to the \"point.\"

I think coaching can help get more out of a lot of this players. Or at least I hope so.

Lets not go counting our chickens yet!!

Evaluating our offense
 

good analysis Danno. i think bentley will be as good at c as g so some slack for him in the transition (but might those transition woes have been avoided with fontenot for one more season). jacox and holland were under but nothing like the slowing of gandy and riley\'s stomach growing like the heavy lunch bunch. nesbitt is a pretty decent backup too that pushed for playing time. maybe one day we will see if stinch really stinks.

Evaluating our offense
 

funny0that\'s most of us\' arguement for replacing brooks.

Evaluating our offense
 

I swear to God, I will never watch the Saints play again.

Evaluating our offense
 

This is where you lose me Billy. Are you judging this teams talent based on what they did, or what they are capable of doing if it had decent coaching.
If Moss has a down year would you consider him talentless.

No excuses. This team is absolutely loaded with talent. Coaching has held it back.

Evaluating our offense
 

So Gumbo, I am not the only one who thinks this team has talent, at least on offense. How about that?

Nice point about Moss Danno.

Evaluating our offense
 

Danno --

I agree that coaching has held some players back. To what degree, I don\'t know. And neither do you. Or anyone else for that matter.

We see all of Donte\'s physical abilities, but I have no way of knowing if he\'ll ever be the type of player we think he will?

What are these players capable of? I don\'t know. And there\'s absolutely no way to know.

Donte and Boo were suppose to have break-out years this year. But they didn\'t.

Will a new coach get them to have those break-out years next year? Or will they regress? We don\'t know. We don\'t know they will ever reach their potential. Lots of players NEVER do. And until they do, we are left with no way of knowing.

The title of this thread was: Evaluating the Offense\"

Not potential

All potential means is they haven\'t done it yet.

Maybe next year they will. Maybe they won\'t.

Mike Holmgren\'s coaching ability isn\'t getting the Seahawks incredibly talented offense to reach their potential.

The Seahawks offense is much like ours. Loads of potential. Not much in results, though. Maybe the Seahawks offensive players are overrated?

What\'s going to fix the seahawks offensive problems? Coaching?

Evaluating our offense
 

But they have done it already.
Donte HAS shown he has enormous talent.
Boo also has, Riley has, Gandy has, Bentley has, Conwell has, Karney Has, Brooks has, Deuce has, Pathon has, etc.

We have a team loaded with players that HAVE shown they have talent, and a lot of it.

Maybe they ALL just ran out of talent this year at the same time. ;)

Evaluating our offense
 

Hey, Danno. I agree with you mostly.

I know you think coaching has really held a lot of players back. I do too. I\'ve said it many times in the past.

But I think the players deserve a lot of blame themselves.

Dropped passes, stupid penalties, terrible blocking. That\'s not all on the coaches.

Here\'s what I\'m thinking. Or hoping.

I think all the players need to be on the same page. I think all the players have to believe in the system. Ala.. the Patriots.

I think the players lost confidence in McCarthy\'s system and doubted themselves before they ever ran the play.

If we can get a good OC who can get the offensive players fired up and get them to believe in the system, then I think that\'s half the battle.

But where I disagree is that we have a lot of \"proven\" players on the offense.

Beyone Deuce and Horn, I don\'t know who that would be.

Boo, Donte, etc.,ect., have shown flashes. But that\'s it.

I\'m definately not sitting here thinking that those players are going to have probowl years next year. No matter who the coach is.

Those players are going to have to do something more before I\'m convinced.

Evaluating our offense
 

Donte hasn\'t proven he was worth the 13th overall pick, but has shown that he is a good player. He needs to stay healthy and needs to get in the lineup at a solid #2 and show us some more. B

Horn: A+++, Pathon B+

Other WRs: C-

I\'ve changed my avatar in protest to some of the things being said about Karney. I didn\'t miss T. Smith at all this year. That tells me how good he played. it wasn\'t his fault McCarthy wanted to go to a 2 TE base set for the offense. He also did a good job of catching passes out of the backfield and even though he might only get two yards on the play, he delivered a mighty blow to the defender attempting to tackle him. I give him an A-

Center and guards: B-... they pulled together at the end of the season after a shaky start.

Tackles: D-... I worried about Gandy after the 2003 season because I felt like he got away with a ton of holding that year. This year, the refs started calling him on it early and he went to trying to get a head start which drew false start penalties. Move him to RT or move him out. Riley? Just move him out.

TEs: D... It\'s time for Hilton to step up. I\'d keep Conwell for the lockerroom influence and cut Boo in camp if he\'s not an immensely better blocker by then. We have too many project positions to keep him if he can\'t catch except in the red zone.

AB: C... Good things/bad things. Hit and Miss. Showed more emotion and leadership early/ragged on his team late.

Edit cuz I skipped Deuce: A- would be A++, but he\'s gotten injured a couple of seasons. RBs fumble we just have to live with that. If Deuce was out of shape this year before the injury, then I expect Roland to fix that.

[Edited on 31/1/2005 by ScottyRo]

Evaluating our offense
 

i kinda like the tight end-heath miller in the draft and think he or bubba franks would be good pick ups.

Evaluating our offense
 

Hey Scotty, nice evaluation man. 6 mil for a C player huh? yikes. But you were fair so I applaud that, though I woulda said D plus at best. Props. :thumbup: