Evaluating the Defense
 

Since there's an offense evaluation out there, I thought I'd start one for the D. Let's keep AB out of this, PLEASE! Even if you believe the offense caused some or all of the D's woes. Stay on this side of the ball!

DE: A
Grant started off with a problem against the run but seemed to be coached into staying on guard for that. Howard had an OK year, but was strong at the end. Smith was a nice surprise in preseason and excellent coming in as a replacement. unfortunately, we probably can't afford to keep all 3 and Howard is likely the odd man out.

DT: D+
Young didn't impress me except for his "motor". He did chase down plays, but I want him to make those plays at the line or behind it. Tony wahts-his-name was probably next best at DT. Hopefully he'll be resigned. After that Benson needs to hold a "fire sale". Everything must go!

MLB: C
I was encouraged by Watson, but he made many, many rookie mistakes and was caught out of position several times. I was glad to see him in though because experience can only help him.

OLB: D+
A 7th round pick starting should tell us something. Bockwoldt's got heart. I hope he can match it with skill in the coming years. Another position for a fire sale.

CB: D-/B
D minus for the first part of the year. Thomas got paid and lost his heart. Ambrose was too slow in '03. Did they expect him to get any faster in '04? / MM and Brown looked much better. I don't know about Craft...he was injured and in the pre-season he missed some plays I thought he should have made. He did make a few plays after getting back on the field.

S: C-

This position kind of typifies this organization: We give up on a player with heart and football instincts (Knight) for a guy with none of that, but plenty of athleticism (Jones). I was pretty critical of Jones after '03, but I am pleased with his progress since. It's not enough but it's a start. The you got Mtichell getting hurt in '03 and being replaced by a vet that looked awful the previous season as a starter but who looked good early in replacement of Mitchell. Problem was they didn't give Mitchell his job back. If Bellamy played that good in '03 I can only imagine how good Mitchell would have been if not for that idiot Sage Rosenfels. He better win his job back this year or things wont get better at S.

Evaluating the Defense
 

Again. Nice analysis Scotty. I would give our corners more towards a C than a D-/B. What does that mean anyway, either or? If so, just go with the C. ;) Also, if AB didn\'t............Just kidding. Nice work bud.

Evaluating the Defense
 

The D- Minus is for the Thomas-Ambrose combo. The B was for MM-Brown combo. I put a \"/\" to point out the shift, but obviously that wasn\'t clear. Thanks for the kind words.

Evaluating the Defense
 

No disagreement from me, Scotty. Nice job.

For the first 11 or 12 games, I thought the Saints defense was one of the worst I had EVER seen. And I\'m serious. Not joking at all.....

Man, it\'s really hard for me to evaluate a lot of players individually.

I think the D-line didn\'t keep the blockers off the linebackers in the first 11 or 12 games. Then, to me, it seemed the D-linemen started playing more disciplinced. Started taking care of their gap responsiblities and the linebackers were able to make some plays. To me, that was the big thing over the last 4 weeks.

Then there was the secondary....

They played just awful for most of the season. Then, they started playing man-coverage and quit playing zone. I suppose McKenzie finally got his wish. It was McKenzie who bugged the hell out of Venturi to play man coverage.

Anyway, when we played man-coverage, the cornerbacks were able to think less and were able to play more instinctively. It was a huge difference in their play.

The only grade I would add is:

Rick Venturi: F

Evaluating the Defense
 

Notice how noone flocks to talk about the D? But then people wanna ask why do we talk about AB so much? Cause that is the biggest hot button topic on here. But I appreciate you taking the effort to bring out the D Scotty. Again, nice job, and thanks for clarifying the shift, I still think it should just round to a C. lol

Evaluating the Defense
 

They probably do deserve a C, but I bet I was blinded by the fact that they were so much better than Thomas and Ambrose. It skewed my perception a bit.

Evaluating the Defense
 

I have one question....when is recess? :D

Evaluating the Defense
 

I say the position that upsets me the most on the d is Tackles.

Young was a one man show that was kinda short all year.
OMG jonathan sullivan you PISS me off!!!!!!!!

With that said, if we could bring in Chris Hovan from the Vikes
along with Young I think the tackles will be ok..

Evaluating the Defense
 

How much was Young double teamed any one remember?

Evaluating the Defense
 

I like the idea of getting Hovan WD.

Scotty, your idea was better to mark a line in the difference after the chnage was made. Kudos.

Evaluating the Defense
 

sorry guys I am not on the ball today
can\'t quite get Forum literate today I need schooling so I can post non retarded looking posts




:killtard:

[Edited on 31/1/2005 by WD52]

Evaluating the Defense
 

I\'d have to say thats mostly due to the QB being the most visible. And to the uninformed masses, the QB is the one who gets credit for winning and blame for losing. On a football forum I\'d expect a much more intelligent analysis about personnel issues.
I\'d venture to say the QB posts are some of the most ignored on the forum also.
Everyone has an opinion on their QB. There are way fewer roster-philes out there than there are armchair QB\'s.
And most of the AB posts turn into a personal pissin contest anyway so its not like actual analysis is overwhelming these posts. But I have taken your advise and now just simply ignore them. I feel so much better for it too.
BTW:
The LB/DT/S post you posted did get 60 replies. And I was impressed with the magnanimous insight most contributed.

C\'mon people, expand your mind. AB posts are for sports forum losers!

Evaluating the Defense
 

And to think I did it just for you. lol

I agree the Ab\'s posts are tiresome, even though I am a main participant. I like discussing it with JKool, and ScottyRo, and yourself and BMG and WhoDat, cause they actually have some very good points to be made when it comes to the subject of our QB and in the case of Kool and Scotty, since they are more fencers than being on either side clearly, raise some interesting questions and points. I get caught up in it though, and some can push my buttons on that subject, but I will be like you, unless those guys wanna discuss it, I am gonna try my best to ignore it as well. But then, there isn;t much to talk about except re-hashing D needs and such.

[Edited on 31/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

Evaluating the Defense
 

Gee thanks. One post about every defensive position on the team versus 2.7 million Brooks posts. But thanks for throwing the old dog a bone. ;)

And about what percent of all the AB posts fall into the \"NOT RE-HASHING\" category? ;)

Evaluating the Defense
 

I\'m as guilty as anyone about jumping back into the AB debates.

(I just deleted two paragraphs of AB stuff cuz I was about to blow my own rule. It\'s just so easy to go there.)

I thought that Young didn\'t draw enough double teams. Of course, he\'s not supposed to asmuch as our other DT. That, in turn, caused some double teaming on Grant and Howard. I wish Mr. Buffet would get off his lard butt and turn into hal of what he was expected to be. I betting that doesn\'t happen.

Evaluating the Defense
 

I\'m assuming you\'re talking about Sullivan?

I wouldn\'t count out Sullivan just yet. Not saying you are...

Sully came out as a junior. He was very immature. Then he got to play along side Grady Jackson, who I believe was a bad influence on on him. Think Sully would have pulled that stuff if he were playing with Ray Lewis?

Sullivan has the talent. And when you have worlds of talent, like Sully, all that is usually needed is motivation.

Sully, at this point, is a high risk/high reward type player. We need someone to push his buttons..

Regardless, this is probably a make or break year for Sully coming up. We can\'t afford too much more of this stuff.

We also can\'t just throw him away right now. Too much upside and money invested.

Evaluating the Defense
 

Danno, I am glad that your blood pressure is in line. You have missed a few good AB posts, but I\'m sure you\'ll live.

Young doesn\'t command double teams; he plays small and isn\'t that big to begin with. He\'s more like Glover without the size.

I was fond of Brown several games and not fond of him several others. The knock against McKenzie in GB is that he is a fine cover guy but he doesn\'t tackle well in the open field and he is not too tough against the run. Perhaps some one who was able to see more games than I could say something about that.

If Thomas gets healthy he will help our CBs, but we seriously lack depth and Brown is hard to evaluate. I\'d still like to see us get another good CB in here. I think C is a bit harsh - with McKenzie alone I think we\'re a C. We have some other guys who can contribute. Ambrose is done, I fear - I liked him a lot more than others here. This leaves us with Craft and Thomas for nickle and dime. We need some more players.

Safety is a concern. Bellamy, if I had to guess, will be next year\'s Ambrose. Jones is, IMO, solid but expensive. We need a SS, today. I want to believe that Mitchell will be all that, but he is unproven.

Evaluating the Defense
 

It is amazing how people in this forum love to pull numbers, percentages, grades, etc. seemingly out of thin air. I can do that too...

Defensive line...A+
Linebackers......A+
Def. Backs.........A+

Do I really believe these grades...no.
Do they mean anythng to anyone else...no
Do I have a link to back them up......no
Am I impressing anyone...well, you figure that one out.

Just letters I decided to put down there...nothing more.

Evaluating the Defense
 

In one of the first games he played for us, the opposing offense threw to the TE in the flat - or close to the flat. Anyway, as you know that\'s a 5 yard gain on our D everytime. MM came up and cut the TEs legs out from under him in a head-on fashion. It was the best tackle I saw all year.

After that I saw some other guys start tackling that way in that situation. I don\'t know about run support, but I know that MM himself improved the tackling of our team by example. He earned big props from me that day as I had always been skeptical about getting him.

Evaluating the Defense
 

I would agree with a C, and add playcalling and it drops it down to a D-

Evaluating the Defense
 

Thanks for the input. That\'s REAL helpful to this discussion. When would it be approriate to post my opinions on this forum? They do mean something to others because they\'ve been posting their opinions too. I also have a link, it\'s...
www.gojumpintheriverforallicare.com

Evaluating the Defense
 

I know the moderators can\'t be on everything right away. But where the heck are the moderators?

We have a bunch of moderators now and I see none of them doing anything.

I know JoeSam would step in if he were here. But I never see the other mods doing too much. Not saying they have to do anything. Just curious.

There are plenty of \"belittling\" posts going on tonight.

Opinions are one thing. Talking down to someone is another.

This Saint_LB guy needs to tighten up.

Evaluating the Defense
 

It is most appropriate to post your opinion at any time, just as I have an opinion on what you just posted. It is only my opinion, and I don\'t really care if it is not shared by the rest of the forum or not. When you start giving people grades, it makes me think that you got the idea because you just got your report card, or something.

Also, I don\'t feel the need to call out people for not responding to my thread.

Evaluating the Defense
 

I\'ve read numerous reports exactly opposite of that. He\'s a great tackler, and extremely good versus the run.
The only knock I read is that he takes too many gambles and will get beat (tricked) occasionally.

Many think his gambles pay off far more often than not.

Evaluating the Defense
 

That\'s what I\'ve read also. More importantly, that\'s what I\'ve seen on the field.

I must admit, I was wrong about McKenzie. He was everything some said he was and more. And I wasn\'t a fan of his at all. I am now!!

Evaluating the Defense
 

Well, when you make grumpy comments like that, it makes me think your social security check must have been short this month.

Evaluating the Defense
 

:xxrotflmao:

Evaluating the Defense
 

For what we gave up for MM(a 2nd and JT) we should be arrested for stealing!

Evaluating the Defense
 

Your need to call people out for not responding to your defense thread instead of the AB threads makes me think that something else of yours must be short. :P

Evaluating the Defense
 

:o

I wasn\'t calling people out to respond to this thread specifically, although I referred to it. The D thread was just an example of one that is sometimes ignored in favor of 4 or 5 other AB threads.

[Edited on 1/2/2005 by ScottyRo]

Evaluating the Defense
 

So you think I need to \"tighten\" up, huh. Sure you didn\'t mean \"lighten\" up. I will lighten up the day you stop contradicting yourself and continuously starting threads intended to stir the crowd up. The difference between you and I is I don\'t take any of this stuff seriously, while you and some of the others try to make a classroom out of this forum, constantly trying to dazzle us with you b/s.

Evaluating the Defense
 

Danno and Billy, thanks.

I continue then to believe that our CBs are a C with MM alone (or a Z+, just for LB).

[Edited on 1/2/2005 by JKool]

Evaluating the Defense
 

I\'ve been a long term reader of this site. 99% of the time, I just read you guys\' comments and evals about the team. But I have to ask....Did Bellamy really play that bad? I thought he did ok. He\'s done great since moving to SS. I agree he is getting a little old, but I don\'t think SS is something we need to REALLY help the D. I\'m lookin at DT and LB. What do you think?

Evaluating the Defense
 

j, welcome to the board.

I thought Bellamy looked pretty good in the games I saw. The concern here is more this:
1. Old.
2. Not too flashy.

There is also a concern about depth at the Safety position.

My view is that LB is the place we need most help (probably two guys). Another DB and a DT would be of great help. So I guess, you and I more or less agree.

Evaluating the Defense
 

Here\'s the BMG spin.

With 2 new starters, we can be a middle of the pack defense.
With 4 new starters, we can be a top 3rd defense.

Now where we get 2-4 new starters.....

I suppose we might be able to sign 1-2 players in free agency. If we\'re lucky we can draft 1 starter who will play 16 games next season. Now where to get that 4th guy.... I suppose we could trade to get that 4th player.....

At any rate, I figure that if we could sign any combination of 2 from these guys: Ed Hartwell, Seth Payne (NT), Will Witherspoon, Pat Williams (NT), Jason Ferguson (NT), or Adalious Thomas, then we could be in pretty good shape. I think I\'d like Ferguson and Witherspoon myself, but I wouldn\'t complain with Hartwell or Thomas.

After that, I don\'t see a free agent corner that I\'d want. But if Saban is serious about cutting guys, I\'d be happy to take Surtain or Madison off his hands and could be persuaded to trade for one of these guys. If the Titans have to cut Samari Rolle, I\'d be interested if the price was right.

At safety, I\'d rather wait for the draft and pick for depth at that position. Bellamy has had a couple of very good years now and I\'d keep him around. However, if the Titans really do cut a lot of people, then I\'d give serious thought to Lance Schulters too.

By the way, Joe Nedney might be a cap casualty in Tennessee too, and he might be a better option for kicker than drafting someone.

At DT, I\'d rather not take Hovan. He seems like the Vikings answer to Sullivan. Given Haslett\'s record for motivating underachievers, I think Hovan would be a huge and expensive mistake.

Alll this to say, we won\'t fix this defense through the draft alone. We also won\'t fix this defense by picking up 2nd and 3rd tier players. We need to sign guys that are starting where they are and are top players.

I guess that I can\'t get too excited about defense threads because I think the organization with sit on its hands through free agency again. I don\'t see us signing a major free agent on defense. If we fail to go after a big free agent, then just get used to being in the bottom half of NFL defenses next year.

[Edited on 1/2/2005 by BrooksMustGo]

Evaluating the Defense
 

What about Ty law at saftey? Rumor has it he will not be with the Pats next year after the play of the young guys and his large salary :shrug: