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and Donald Driver actually knows what he is talking about, could we ship AB back for their first and J.T.?

http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/s...79/detail.html

Before the boo brids come out J.T. would nto be the starter, but getting an extra first may allow us to deal for Brees.

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sounds good to me.

the more i have thought about brees the more i believe a) they will franchise him, let him start, and put off a decision on rivers and him until next year. or b) realize they are in a position to really go for it now and trade rivers. they could get another 1st rounder or high quality player they need with the two 1st rounders they already have. that is a lot of flexibility and firepower for a division winner.

the green bay connection... their first and let grady jackson come back (nothing but good since there).

i dunno the leon n daddy connection is my fave- ab for pick #33 and rattay. let rogers learn from a master.

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Dunno about Grady coming back, He may have harsh feelings and get lazy again. Also, we can draft Travis Johnson or someone had a good article on Hawthorne\'s work ethic on here. Maybe him.

Are you saying we should trade AB for Rattay and their second? I will have to think about that. Doesn\'t seem too terrible as Rattay played well when Garcia got hurt a year ago. He has to be making a lower salary as well. So we would have the first pick of the 2nd round to go with # 16 and # 40. I like that too, though I would rather go for Brees by fleecing Green Bay\'s first. But not a bad idea on your end either. Get another second for Howard(maybe). So we would have brees or Rattay, and a combo of two first and two seconds, or one first and three seconds. Not too shabby.

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hell, i would not mind seeing rattay.... he is a good QB.. so long as he has the time to throw it....

least hed be fun to watch

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I wouldn\'t mind Rattay either, as long we drafted a rookie to to groon to take over.

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rattay, two 1sts, and two 2nds... now that\'s a nipple hardener- a qb to develop under rattay, 2 defensive studs, and a top ot (in no particular order).

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That would be as if I was playig Madden, though I would get a better QB than Rattay if it was Madden, and usually I do.

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I would rather Rattay then Brooks, Rattay makes better decisions.

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well i wouldnt like rattay rather then brooks myself. now i wouldnt mind jt coming back in that sort of trade but i wouldnt expect it. i think we have to keep brroks for at least one more season. i dont know how we have an option there. we dont have anyone that can replace him. but we need to pick a qb up in the draft. one that can be groomed to take over for brooks in a year. just my thoughts. but if we could trade brooks for a first or second rounder and pick up warner an draft a qb i think that would be nice. keep warner for a year and then let the kid take over

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we could easily get frye with that pick.

I would like green bay\'s first rounder though..butr I think a high second will be just as good: defense in the first, qb then defense or line in the second.

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That sounds good to me Barron. We will have Rattay and a young QB to groom.

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it would give SF the ability to push for now more than slow building. pick cedric benson or derrick johnson with the first, then pick up a 3-4 rd qb. though rodgers is tabbed as #1 for sf it is questioned by many if he is up to #1 overall status.

and back to if favre retires, if no AB there then it could be very possible hasslebeck would end up there and create an opening in seattle. they are cap friendly for taking him on. they do have a bundle of fa\'s to resign but know they can\'t do them all.

sf just seems too poetic tho with his daddy mc there. rattay and having picks 16-33-40 looks good. add dallas #20 or 42 for howard and kablooey!- that\'s a rookie qb, and 3 defenders or 2 defenders and an ot. for those ready to bash remember the cap room freed without ab/dh giving opportunity for higher impact fa signings als hartwell, rolle, smoot, simon, pace, etc.

ps/ i came across another mock draft today having frye as no 2nd rd pick regardless of trade whimsies.

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by LKelley67]

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The scenarios outlined here could instantly and drastically improve this team IMHO. Good work guys. Everyone seems like they thought well and didn\'t go too off the wall with \"potential\" happenings. It may be damn near impossible for the team to realize ANY of these need to be done, but at least we dug in the realm of what COULD happen and were realistic.

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I am tired of trading people for draft picks. I cannot believe we have a 1st rounder and 2 seconds that have done absolutely nothing. I would really love to see our picks get on the field. Like our second this year, we got MM. I am all for trading picks for proven talent

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But in today\'s NFL you can\'t trade your picks for players willy nilly, you will be like the Redskins with few draft picks and a lot of bloated salaries. Or the Dolphins having to let go of very good players. you build through the draft and teach them with competent free agents. Trading picks for players should only be done once every so often. You could end up with a Fred Thomas, gets his money and instantly disappears. Rookie at least have smaller contracts and more to play for, in most cases. sullivan\'s of the world aside. But that is why you need vets to teach them.

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The problem with this scenario is that the owner of the 69er\'s is strapped for cash, big time. If you trade Leon to the 69er\'s, he would demand a salary commensurate with his \"Greatness\" and the deal would fall through. I\'d take Rattay over Leon, for two reasons. First he\'s a Louisiana product, and second his brain is larger than Leon\'s, therefore he can learn and grow with a decent coordinator. Let Leon and McCarthy moulder in the Fog by the Bay. Good riddance.

The problem that we face is that Dollars to Donuts Hazlett is going to promote Sheppard to OC. That is a mistake that we\'ll regret for years to come. He can\'t coach Leon, what will he do with a real talent? Not much. We missed the boat by not recruiting Charlie Weis, Jim Fassel, or Norm Chow. Now the pickins is slim. So we\'ll end up with some Dud that comes cheap cause Uncle Tom doesn\'t have the money to pony up for someone worth a damn.

We\'re hosed. :ohnoes:

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Get your doom and gloom out of here RDOX!! lol We all know what you are saying, but I gotta feel Haslett feels as lucky as a homeless guy winning the Powerball that he still has his job and will make big moves to make this team better. I can\'t see them sitting idle again. Not just for win losses, but for the community they have to give a winning appearance now more than ever, especially with public opinion growing to Blanco AND raised ticket prices for the upcoming season. It is put up or shetup time.

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First of all you are 100% right on about the put up or shutup thingy. I apologise about the \"gloom and Doom,\" but given Hazlett\'s penchant to be loyal to his staff (look at who is still D-Coordinator), Mike Sheppard is a logical choice. Now, I may be surprized at what he does without being supervised by McCarthy. Assuming that Hazlett and Sheppard are sick of trying to bring Leon out amongst the living, you may see some serious and positive changes.

If Hazlett keeps Leon, and Leon continues his \"I am the Greatest\" act through next year, we are hosed. BIG TIME!!

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I agree with that whole-heartedly.

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leon could go to the niners since he is under contract for several more years. he may demand but i dont think anyone else will fall for his act. he\'ll have to finish up his contract and actually earn some pay for performance on the field. he still has market value because of \"potential\". if there is a believer in him it is mccarthy. the time is ripe. i could see him being a brunnell-feely trade asking \"what in the hell were they thinking?\" later. he could be a terry collins who leaves and leads another team to a superbowl. so be it, the time has come, and at least get some value in return before he becomes a brad johnson that you have to cut and bite the bullet to be rid of. i\'d risk a possible 4-12 finish for a legitimate shot at 12-4 rather than another year of mediocrity through schizophrenia. just my take. i think the cap game has to be executed without prejudice in personnel. no team can afford to keep a 1 of 3 top de\'s and a non leader erratic qb for 14mil. do ya think tenn liked or that george wanted to leave the titans? it was just good business for both (they kept him a season or two too long at that).

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I agree 100% Kelly. You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette. I have repeatedly asked that question, if we go 8-8 and don\'t make the playoffs, who really cares if we go 4-12? We still aren\'t in the playoffs, and are in a better draft position. Then we strike. San Diego has done it, Philly has done it, Indy did it, Dallas did it, Oakland did it, Tenn is doing it. You gotta bite the bullet at some point and just say hey, we gotta cut our losses and forget this mediocrity for a year and actually try to get better. Shipping Leon is the right start. Sends a message, gets something in return, gets his salary off the books, and his ego off the team. It just makes too much sense. I don\'t care if he goes somewhere else and goes to the superbowl. Jake did it, why doesn\'t anyone cry about that? Bulger came within a game of doing it, why doesn\'t anyone cry about that? They were both here. Let\'s get something for him and make some of these other moves happen.

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Whodi!

You and LKelley67 are on the mark. There is something to be said for Leon going to the 69er\'s and playing for McCarthy. I truly hope that he does well. But, considering the things that he has said and done here, his reputation and his schizophrenia on the field will not allow him any modicum of success.

So, let\'s deal him to SF and get Rattay and call it even, or if we can get a 2 or 3 out of the deal so be it. If we are to strike, we need to do so in the next 2-3 years, because after that, Deuce is going to start showing the effects of the pounding and Joe\'s gonna be too old. Also, deal Darren Howard for a high pick and swing away. I\'d also be hopeful that John Pease kicks some sense into Sully\'s wide butt and he steps up.

Assuming that we get a \"fair\" athlete who is a leader and a team player at QB you may see some of that \"potential\" rise to the top and these guys start playing with the talent that they truly have. But only if Leon is on the Left Coast.

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Amen.