Simple but it works!!

GumboBC · 02-07-2005, 09:59 AM

Watching the Patriots play yesterday made me think of something I've said on this board many times. And it has to do with coaching in general.

While many Saints' fans like to complain about McCarthy calling bad plays or Brooks doing whatever, I see a lot of "simple" things that have cost the Saints' offfense.

1. We do nothing to slow down the blitz.

a.) When defenses blitz us, which is often, we hardly ever run a screen pass. IMO, it is VITAL that you have the screen play in your playbook. And it's VITAL you use it often to encourage the defense not to blitz so much.

b.) You've got to get up to the line of scrimmage EARLY. You need to have as much time left on the 30-second clock as possible. Then you need to go with a long snap count and try to get the defense to show their hand. By doing that you can get defensive players to commit to the blitz and they are much easier for the QB to point out.

You can also go with some hard counts and get the defense to jump offsides. Or make them hesitant to go on the first count.

c.) You need to go max-protect sometimes. When teams aren't succesful blitzing and you complete some passes on them, they don't blitz nearly as often.

All of this needed to have been done more often, IMO.

Thoughts?

saintswhodi · 02-07-2005, 10:04 AM

For the most part I agree, but if Riley was false starting so much this year anyway, a long snap count WILL DOOM the offense. Linemen are not meant to hold their stance for extended periods of time while a QB tries to figure out the D pre-snap. False starts will triple with a longer count.

I do agree we need to screen more. I wonder why that is not a bigger part of the offense or why we haven\'t run it successfully in all these years?

I tried to make the point about max protect when we disagreed about Carolina\'s o-line. When they are passing, they mainly max protect or have a player who is going out like a TE or RB chip a rushing defender. This needs to be a necessary part of our O as well.

baronm · 02-07-2005, 10:49 AM

the superbowl also showed how a well balanced TEAM approach is to the game. there are no players on the patriots that consider themselves above the team. that I think has killed NO.

saintswhodi · 02-07-2005, 11:17 AM

I wasn\'t gonna go there baron, but I agree with that also.

chRxis · 02-07-2005, 09:09 PM

the saints run a screen and it work? yeah, ok.... the same could be said about their defense and trying to stop the screenplay.... we look a catholic school girl jr. varsity team b when we try to run a screen or stop a screen.

xan · 02-08-2005, 02:01 AM

not to incite a riot again, but:

1a) Picking up the blitz requires being smart enough to recognize that it\'s coming and from where. Then, having enough time to communicate the new play is essential. We\'ve seen precious little evidence of ability or planning in this area.

1b) Screen passes require touch and patience. Most screens I\'ve seen the Saints run are too quick and too obvious. The passes are more often than not bullets into the back of an O-lineman.

2) Intercepted transmission from McCarthy to Brooks:
\"Aaron...yo...Aaron...listen...c\'mon listen....the next play...you know what a pass is?....ok...you use your arm....nevermind, dammit...just take the snap and turn around and give it to number 26...aw c#@$ you faked Riley out of his shorts on that hard count!\"

3) McCarthy was responsible for the formation foolishness in 2004, lets see what Shepard concocts. He (Shepard) did have a few good play/formations installed at the end of the season that were excellent in the red zone.

johnnythesaint · 02-08-2005, 09:02 AM

The good screen pass relies on 3 elements

1. QB must look at a receiver down field in order to keep the LB\'s rushing

2. It\'s a touch pass that must be floated over oncoming linemen or LB\'s

3. The pulling linemen have got to synchronize their blocking to arrive in front of the RB at roughly the same time as the defence twigs that it\'s a screen.

When the Saints run a screen pass what I see is
1. Aaron tends to stare at Mcallister coming out of the backfield (this is a bad thing)

2. Aaron tends to rifle the ball in, which undermines the whole idea of a screen play. It is supposed to prey on over aggressive defences by letting them overcommit, and that half second extra air time is crucial to the success of the play, in half a second blitzing LB\'s have overpursued leaving the secondary matched up against 300 pound lineman. (we rarely see that sight on our screen plays)

3. Because the timing is thrown off in the earlier parts of the play our OL can\'t make it to the breakdown point, result is Deuce getting gangtackled and dropped for a loss.

The real issue is can Aaron and Mike Shepperd develop this play during the offseason, all good offences can run a good screen, yet we have been crappy at screens for a long time.

saintswhodi · 02-08-2005, 10:21 AM

Right on in these last two posts. Way to break down a screen and why it DOESN\"T EVER work here, or at least for the last 4 years. Dalton Hilliard always ran a good screen.

GumboBC · 02-08-2005, 10:39 AM

I agree that Brooks doesn\'t put enough touch on the screen pass. And I don\'t think he does a good job of selling it.

But, I don\'t believe McCarthy really wanted the screen pass to be a staple of our offense and therefore it was never developed to a point to where it was effective.

The offensive line looked lost. The whole thing seemed busted before we ever ran it.

The screen pass isn\'t complicated and it\'s a easy play for any QB.

Also, it worked much better with Aaron Stecker at RB.

02-07-2005, 09:59 AM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Simple but it works!! Watching the Patriots play yesterday made me think of something I've said on this board many times. And it has to do with coaching in general. While many Saints' fans like to complain about McCarthy calling bad plays or Brooks doing whatever, I see a lot of "simple" things that have cost the Saints' offfense. 1. We do nothing to slow down the blitz. a.) When defenses blitz us, which is often, we hardly ever run a screen pass. IMO, it is VITAL that you have the screen play in your playbook. And it's VITAL you use it often to encourage the defense not to blitz so much. b.) You've got to get up to the line of scrimmage EARLY. You need to have as much time left on the 30-second clock as possible. Then you need to go with a long snap count and try to get the defense to show their hand. By doing that you can get defensive players to commit to the blitz and they are much easier for the QB to point out. You can also go with some hard counts and get the defense to jump offsides. Or make them hesitant to go on the first count. c.) You need to go max-protect sometimes. When teams aren't succesful blitzing and you complete some passes on them, they don't blitz nearly as often. All of this needed to have been done more often, IMO. Thoughts?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-07-2005, 10:04 AM	#2
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Simple but it works!! For the most part I agree, but if Riley was false starting so much this year anyway, a long snap count WILL DOOM the offense. Linemen are not meant to hold their stance for extended periods of time while a QB tries to figure out the D pre-snap. False starts will triple with a longer count. I do agree we need to screen more. I wonder why that is not a bigger part of the offense or why we haven\'t run it successfully in all these years? I tried to make the point about max protect when we disagreed about Carolina\'s o-line. When they are passing, they mainly max protect or have a player who is going out like a TE or RB chip a rushing defender. This needs to be a necessary part of our O as well.

02-07-2005, 10:49 AM	#3
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Simple but it works!! the superbowl also showed how a well balanced TEAM approach is to the game. there are no players on the patriots that consider themselves above the team. that I think has killed NO.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

02-07-2005, 11:17 AM	#4
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Simple but it works!! I wasn\'t gonna go there baron, but I agree with that also.

02-07-2005, 09:09 PM	#5
chRxis 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 690	Simple but it works!! the saints run a screen and it work? yeah, ok.... the same could be said about their defense and trying to stop the screenplay.... we look a catholic school girl jr. varsity team b when we try to run a screen or stop a screen.

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02-08-2005, 02:01 AM	#6
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	Simple but it works!! not to incite a riot again, but: 1a) Picking up the blitz requires being smart enough to recognize that it\'s coming and from where. Then, having enough time to communicate the new play is essential. We\'ve seen precious little evidence of ability or planning in this area. 1b) Screen passes require touch and patience. Most screens I\'ve seen the Saints run are too quick and too obvious. The passes are more often than not bullets into the back of an O-lineman. 2) Intercepted transmission from McCarthy to Brooks: \"Aaron...yo...Aaron...listen...c\'mon listen....the next play...you know what a pass is?....ok...you use your arm....nevermind, dammit...just take the snap and turn around and give it to number 26...aw c#@$ you faked Riley out of his shorts on that hard count!\" 3) McCarthy was responsible for the formation foolishness in 2004, lets see what Shepard concocts. He (Shepard) did have a few good play/formations installed at the end of the season that were excellent in the red zone.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

02-08-2005, 09:02 AM	#7
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125	Simple but it works!! The good screen pass relies on 3 elements 1. QB must look at a receiver down field in order to keep the LB\'s rushing 2. It\'s a touch pass that must be floated over oncoming linemen or LB\'s 3. The pulling linemen have got to synchronize their blocking to arrive in front of the RB at roughly the same time as the defence twigs that it\'s a screen. When the Saints run a screen pass what I see is 1. Aaron tends to stare at Mcallister coming out of the backfield (this is a bad thing) 2. Aaron tends to rifle the ball in, which undermines the whole idea of a screen play. It is supposed to prey on over aggressive defences by letting them overcommit, and that half second extra air time is crucial to the success of the play, in half a second blitzing LB\'s have overpursued leaving the secondary matched up against 300 pound lineman. (we rarely see that sight on our screen plays) 3. Because the timing is thrown off in the earlier parts of the play our OL can\'t make it to the breakdown point, result is Deuce getting gangtackled and dropped for a loss. The real issue is can Aaron and Mike Shepperd develop this play during the offseason, all good offences can run a good screen, yet we have been crappy at screens for a long time.
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125	Flying in from Canada to see the Dolphins game Will it be a Carnival or a Circus?

02-08-2005, 10:21 AM	#8
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Simple but it works!! Right on in these last two posts. Way to break down a screen and why it DOESN\"T EVER work here, or at least for the last 4 years. Dalton Hilliard always ran a good screen.

02-08-2005, 10:39 AM	#9
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Simple but it works!! I agree that Brooks doesn\'t put enough touch on the screen pass. And I don\'t think he does a good job of selling it. But, I don\'t believe McCarthy really wanted the screen pass to be a staple of our offense and therefore it was never developed to a point to where it was effective. The offensive line looked lost. The whole thing seemed busted before we ever ran it. The screen pass isn\'t complicated and it\'s a easy play for any QB. Also, it worked much better with Aaron Stecker at RB.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616