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It might be time to blow it up
I didn't see the 4th quarter because I fell asleep. I haven't fallen asleep during a Saints game since the Haslett era. I'm guessing that may be a sign.
I hope we make some drastic changes going into next year. The cupboard isn't bare so we still have a lot of attractive talent for the next regime to work with, but I'd prefer to give our new staff more picks and more cap room to work with. Out with the old... Get what we can out of our aging vets before the trade deadline, or during the off-season. I'm not sure what a contender would give us, and I haven't looked at the cap hits that may prevent some of these moves, but here's my garage sale list... Brees Colston Watson Strief Ingram Hawthorne Bush Morstead I realize we wouldn't get much or anything for these guys but we might catch a team desperate for a veteran stop-gap or depth for their playoff run. Loomis found Payton in 2006, and I think he can also find the next young up and coming hot coordinator. In with the new... Keep all our young talent, including Jordan. I think with the right DC, Cam can be a top 5 DE in this game. Get back to the formula for success we've used in the past. Fill holes with 2nd tier free-agents, not the super high priced splash guys. Gimmee the Jabari Greers, Jon Vilmas, and the Keenan Lewis types. Its a great formula if you also hit on your draft picks, which failed us over the last 6 or 7 years. The 2015 draft gives me hope that we currently have the talent evaluators we need. |
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The longer Payton and CO stay around the longer we are going to have high hopes and nothing to show for it.
Payton has lost his touch and become the most predictable play caller in the league. Greg Williams was the key to our successful years, he brought fire and passion through competition and did it with less talent. Blow it up now or we're going to see this same crap show until they quit. At this point we are just delaying the inevitable. Will we suck for a few years when Payton and Drew leave? Yes, but at least we will be rebuilding. Drew deserves another title and that wont happen with Payton. |
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Blowing it up, maybe, well yes to a certain degree. Is it me, and please someone tell me otherwise, but maybe this is coincidence and i'm probably wrong, but it seems we've started to head south about the time Loomis became more involved with there Pelicans….is it coincidence or is there something to our current direction?
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It will blow up in 2017 as it is. So ride it out and lets see what we have in the cupboard by then to use. get pieces in place to replace the aging vets.
OG to replace Evens? sorry do not see one on this team OT to replace Strief? after today I say we got two LT and Streif. as for the others I still see is nothing :chug:nope still nuthing |
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Did Loomis find Payton? I had thought Payton came here.
But I agree, lets fire Payton and Ryan. However, we can find the next Drew Brees to play for us if Loomis can find another good offensive mind. Here are some options McCarron Aaron Murray Bortles(he's starting to look better) Carr RIVERS Or draft a qb if Grayson isn't the answer. OR Make the team a run first team. Draft Fornette. Invest in replacements for Evans and Streiff. Get a good receiver in the 2nd round, because without Brees you need stud receivers sorry. The packers moved on from Favre and he had two more good years before he fell off. Brees might find that kind of magic too. Trade Ingram also. We need to forget about a streaky back. Without SP we risk losing a great O with average players. So our new QB will need studs to throw to. Can that be done in one year? It can if the defense can wait. It won't if it has to be a little here, a little there. All we got is one ring and Atlanta taunting us afterward. It's just a bad taste in my mouth. |
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INGRAM? NeauxFW! :D |
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We have one more year .... Of this and Brees retires Payton goes to coach Dallas and we sign a DC as head coach .... We have some good young Guys on D to built around...
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Well, if we're going to be sellers, now's the time...
But Ireland, not Loomis needs to be the check in the negotiations... Loomis gives it up like a b*tch and gets nothing in return... My first trade was a mistaken draft pick, poor fit, over-valued Mark Ingram... Goes down on the first hit waaaay too much; I'd move him to the G'nats who are in desperate need of a RB1 right now... I'd get no less than a 3rd round pick for him, and only Ingram in return... The next cat I'd move is Cam Jordan; he's an overrated pass rusher and will do nothing but sulk as a 3-4 end allowing Kikaha, Edebali accumlate stats... The best candidate for a Cam Jordan trade would be the Minnesota Vikings, they're in need of a 4-3 DE, there starting DE is Brian Robison is 32, Cam Jordan was born there and they have an excellent player riding the pine that could upgrade the Saints - RB Jerick McKinnon... Or we could take a high draft pick in return for Jordan... Brees won't be traded - forget that; but he may be released before next season for salary cap relief, and that could happen if Payton has moved... The only other player from the above list may be Strief, if a playoff team loses a right tackle... And we've also overpaid for Morstead, he looks too comfortable and I didn't see the team bring in any competition to motivate him (and that's on the Saints)... I'd love to move Byrd, but who'd be stupid enough to pick up his remaining contract, especially without a reworked, friendlier deal?!? |
Re: It might be time to blow it up
love it the fire sale is on.
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CLEAN HOUSE!!!
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You KNOW **** just got real when Danno suggests wholesaling Ingram.
:-]] Yup. Time to blow it all up and start again. This level of play and coaching is just demeaning to the recently PROUD Saints Organization. |
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It seems like the explosion has begun.
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I would keep Moorstead and Ingram. Other than that Im all with you. Jorden would go anywhere else and be an all pro. We MUST hang on to him. I just dont know how good this franchise looks anymore for prospective coaches and players. We got a lot of good FA's because Drew and Payton were getting it done and the SAints looked to be on the way to a dynasty. Now the **** has really hit the fan and I dont think Coaches and players are gonna be just chomping at the bit to come here. The cap situation is discouraging to any GM or coach, and good veterans want to go to teams that A. actually have the money to spend to pay them and B. look to be winners. Hell with Bensons legal situations who knows where the team will be 5-10 years down the road. |
Re: It might be time to blow it up
If we get to that bye week and we are still sitting at 1 or 2 wins, it might be time for the pink slips. If Falcons destroy us for 40+ points, Ryan won't last that long.
IMO we can give Payton the next five weeks to show he hasn't lost the team, and then we will see where that takes us. |
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Might be time?? It is time. We're putting together losing season's nowadays WITH Payton and Brees. Things haven't been right for a while now.
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It's time for a regime change.
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Trade Brees
Trade everybody Dynamite the Dome Hand over the team to Rita Leblanc Benson and the Texas Heirs Move the team to San Antonio Fans have orgy PROBLEM SOLVED! http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/186m...g/original.jpg |
Re: It might be time to blow it up
O-line is in shambles= poor drafting.
WR's again =poor drafting. Snead I keep and Cook goes to the slot. We need 2 more. TE= 1 more RB- unless we trade Ingram for a pick I keep him. Robinson definately stays. Spillers I trade. The D needs to go 3-4, I trade Jordan. Draft a stud 3-4 NT our DE look good. LB- to be honest I like what we would look like in a 3-4, need depth at ILB and OLB but can get that in FA. CB- not so bad but Browner is gone. Up and coming FA. SS- Vaccaro is traded or flat out released. I would draft a stud to put with Byrd Fire every D coach we got and if Payton want as much as I hate to say this trade him to a team for high picks. Now for 30 million a year we could get a few very good pieces on both sides of the ball. Brees without pieces(O-line,WR,TE) isn't worth it. Trade him or release him. I watched a back-up not making jack squat game manage just about as well. And if our rookie can do that and have a top 7 D we will win alot more than what we have been winning. |
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Bill Coward would be my choice if Payton leaves. The guy build solid teams.
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Hmmm.... no. I distinctively remember 2 playoffs games when the Saints scored 30+ points and lost. The key to the Saints' success in those years, they could score on anyone at any time, early and often. I made the observation in the game thread: if this was 2009-2011, and the Saints started 1 drive inside the other team's 50 and there were 2 INTs, the game would've been 21-0. Not 0-0. |
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What's so good about him? And don't tell me "he's a bruiser". He didn't bruise anyone today, or last Sunday. |
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You can see it in the way he conducts himself on the sideline. The only time he chews anyone's ass is Rob Ryan. And frankly, at this point, he has no business chewing Rob Ryan's ass. B This is not the same coach signaling 1st downs with his crutch, or calling on-side kicks in the SB. This is a guy who's become extremely predictable, and has no passion for the game anymore. |
Re: It might be time to blow it up
Defence
Just abandon the idea of the Saints running a 3-4. I know everybody still dreams of the dome patrol but sorry to say, they are not coming back. The 3-4 is utterly dependant on finding a great NT, a space eater that can occupy two gaps. Those are extremely rare. Its easier to find a pro bowl LT or a elite QB and there are not 20 of those to go around. Instead build a 4-3, over and under fronts, mix it up with the personel instead. I wouldn't mind seeing a different DC but I'd rather see Vitt and Johnson get the boot. On offence The Saints have a great foundation for an OL. Armstead is a stud. Unger has been allright so far. Peat looked like the real deal against the Eagles. I think he will start att RT befor the end of the season. I'm not sold on Lelito yet. Evans looked allright until he got injured. Not great but servicable. Kelemete has been absolutely atrocious so far. Get some tar and feathers and send him out of town. We need to use one or two pick in the draft on guards. The biggest problem with Mark Ingram is that when he was drafted we expected the next Deuce McAllister. That is a pretty hard standard to live up to. I still think he is good enough if the OL is better. Cooks and Snead are both 22 and a great start to a solid WR corps. I would still want to see another big target. I think Hill and Watson are good enough at TE but not used enough. Then we have the question about Brees. He looked decent against the Eagles imho. He showed that he can still throw it and get it done. He is averaging 66,5% completions. and 326 yards per game (second highest of his career) a 2-1 TD-INT ratio. I would say he can still get it done. His contract will be a problem next year thou. |
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The only thing I would add is to dump strief before he makes it to practice today. I've hated this guy since he got the starting role.
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yesterday we all got to see what this team has for back ups at a bunch of positions and you still want a fire sale? i just do not get it
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Austin Johnson NT Penn State 603 325 5.27 can not be blocked one on one. always dbl and to my surprise triple teamed constantly and he still causes havoc. want an agile space eater? he is your man. Quote:
I just do not see the players for that. Quote:
Agreed whole heartily but this is not the year of the OG in the draft well till we see what Jr. come out. One senior has my eye in the mid rounds Evan Boehm, Missouri C/LOG, senior (6-3, 320, 5.15) 3yr starter. 1 OG 2 at OC. unlike most OL coming out lately he does not suffer from the spread offense decline in skills. He is a freaking coke machine. Nothing fancy, just a dude that loves the trenches and life in a phone booth. You do not see sub 3.20 from guys over 300 that much. Plus he did pretty good against Florida and that defense. Hard to judge with Mizzo youth movement but I say he passed the litmus test. He would be an immidate up grade at backup OG to boot. Man I missed Evans yesterday. Now I have to say Peat played much better at LT than I thought he would. Issue with him is almost all of his playing time was at LT. Switching over to RT is not as easy as it sounds. My first reaction because of play was silly. can Armstead play RT? silly I now but that might be a solution. Quote:
yeah is serviceable. Saints never respected PT all around game enough and have not added or drafted a player with his skill sets and it is showing and Drew is playing the price. Been screaming for the saints to groom some one for years. nope i have not found a mid round solution yet. Quote:
We need a WR that is tall with solid speed, catches with his hands and plays with attitude. another mid round option Tajae Sharpe, WR, UMass 6025 200 4.48 Quote:
I do not see our replacement for Drew on this roster. Not yet at least This is the problem IMO. If the saints tank do you go after the franchise QB pick? Looking at this team I would have to pause and rethink that. Trading down and pushing your picks over into 2016 and maybe 2017 would be the wiser move no matter the player on the board given the state of things. The more I ponder it the more I think and this is not in stone but the wise move might be gets some picks if possible and draft Jalen Ramsey, CB/S Florida State, 6005, 202, 4.49 excellence in run support makes him a Safty. Coverage skills of a CB are there and refining. Ramsey starred at safety, cornerback and even linebacker at times in 2014. Plus you never know. This is his first year as a full time CB, that maybe his position. love talent and flexibility. Move him into the SS role next to Byrd. If Byrd goes down again he can slide over and take his place. If a CB is needed he can step in. He is everything KV was hyped to be. Plus when Byrd is done he might be the player to take his spot. at least the guy is safety with attitude and cover skills so IMO he is a SS for todays pass happy NFL. then you have some additional picks to chase the others players in this draft and the next. Either way 2017 is the year we have to get some solid talent in here and keep them. PS the Pats are still laughing about that Akiem Hicks for Michael Hoomanawanui trade. They also like Rufus Johnson. They are wondering if the saints will dump any more solid talent for a sack of deflated balls. Either we are totally stupid or we need to take some power away from some one in the FO. We are killing ourselves or prepping to move to San Antonio. |
Re: It might be time to blow it up
Sure hagan, there is one NT in the draft that might be really really good. But what if we don't get him? Then there isn't a whole lot of options. There is a lot easier to find the pieces for a 4-3 box is all I'm saying.
Solid guards are a dime a dozen, specacular ones are harder to find. I'd take solid and you can find a bunch of those every year in the draft. I honestly haven't seen enough of GG to have a good idea of how good he might actually become. |
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I think it getting close to Garrett Grayson time
I love what Brees has done for us, I just think that Payton needs to go and we need to try and get the best we can in a trade for Brees. We have plenty of rookies that look to have bright futures, but Payton has crippled this team and the defense has been shoddy nearly his entire tenure here. |
Re: It might be time to blow it up
From Canal Street Chronicles:
2) Anger (regarding Loomis and Payton's mismanagement) I'm with all of you here. The 2015 Saints are a shell of what the Saints had been from 2006 to 2013 (if we consider 2012 the anomaly that it was). How did a team so dominant for such a long time suddenly fall off the face of the NFL earth? Bad management from the front office. On Thursday night, the Saints will face the 5-0 Falcons. Atlanta fans will come here and gloat and trash talk, as if the past two years of 4-12 and 6-10 records with arguably the best wide receiver in the NFL and one of the best quarterbacks never happened. Why were they so bad in back-to-back years then? Mike Smith and his staff weren't getting the job done anymore. Smith had been an outstanding coach in Atlanta earlier in his tenure, but he had lost his way and was fired. Sean Payton has lost his way, so has Mickey Loomis. They've drafted pretty well in 2015 mind you, so maybe there's hope for the future. But the question is: do we want them at the helm of this future? Do we want them delivering the same stale message and making the same mistakes? Only Tom Benson can answer that question. For now, all we have as fans is anger at the staff that drove the Ferrari off a cliff. |
Re: It might be time to blow it up
Finding a Nose Tackle isn't the problem; we actually have two draft picks invested in Jenkins...
Why the hell we had him lose all that weight and try to convert him to a 3-tech is beyond me... While a ProBowl NT would be great, all we really need is a steady rotation of defensive linemen to keep a steady, fresh rush throughout the game... It's not dreams of a Dome Patrol so much as getting a faster, more effective defense on the field... Unless you've got a defensive line like the Rams (i.e. Quinn, Brockers, Donald, Long), just get some behemoths and neutralize the other kids 3 DL vs their 5 OL and let your LBers make plays... |
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I want Greg Williams back, fire Payton and hire Williams as the HC! |
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I want Bill Cowart.
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In Loomis and Payton I Trust !!!
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