Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Am bringing up Joe Vitt's competency again because I was discussing the play of Stephone Anthony and Hau'oli Kikaha and whether their respective games have continued to develop and progress...

While they're only rookies and still in the first few games of their young careers, question arose whether they'd continued to progress or if they were still trying to get by on their natural physical talents...

While it's not popular with some, I've argued Joe Vitt (along with DLC Bill Johnson and STC Greg McMahon) are liabilities and should be replaced...

Additionally, while I think Dennis Allen is a superb Secondary Coach/Coordinator, it's a mistake though having a two-headed monster coordinating the defense; two messages, confuses players...

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Not going to get much of an argument on getting rid of the "boys" but what gives you the impression that just because Allen is here, there are 2 messages? From my understanding, he is coaching the DB's and helping them understand Ryans scheme. He is an assistant to Ryan.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Well, for starters, if titles mean anything...

Rob Ryan was Defensive Coordinator which usually means he's the ranking Defensive Coach short of the head coach in most NFL Chain of Commands...

Go to the Saints webpage and now Dennis Allen is list above Ryan as Senior Defensive Assistant (Joe Vitt is listed above both as Asst HC, Linebackers)...

Not necessarily defending Ryan, but usually when you put things to paper (or webpage) then you look at an organizational chart, well you can see potential problematic situations...

New Orleans Saints | Coaches

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Vitt is the assistant head coach. Brian Young and James Willis are now LB position coaches.

Perhaps thats why our LB's look better this year than they have in a long time.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Good catch on that...

Of course investing a first and second round pick in the linebacking corps doesn't hurt either...

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

What exactly do you do as the assistant head coach...

Carry Payton's Juicy Fruit perhaps... lol

We have so much bloated dead weight on this staff it's worse than the government.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

What do you do as the assistant head coach....stay out of the way. Makes you wonder what Vitt has on Payton and/or Loomis.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Just my observation over the years with our D & assistant coaches...

We really hadn't turned the corner on defense the way I would have expected under the current regime. Sure we've made splashes with Vilma, Fujita but we were still nothing better than average with the exception that Darren Sharper was a ball hawking fool on the back end (2009). Outside of the inaugural season (new scheme and coaches had nothing on tape) the Big Lewboski production has been below par.

Payton refuses to move on from his "boys" & it's crippling the franchise. I think the jury is still out of J Vitt (he has serious talent to work with) but Johnson, Mchahon have no excuses. I'm all for Allen coaching up the secondary but let the next DC pick and choose his staff.

We need fresh faces, new assistant coaches and new ideas.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Vitt sux. Johnson sux. Allen stinks and McNothing is pitiful. But what can you do, Paytons good ole' boys.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

I guess they'll go when Payton goes.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Agree with all except that Joe Vitt has been here long enough to know he needs to geaux...

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Would you leave a job that pays you very well and you have no worries because you are buddies with the boss?

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Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Speed , coordination and instinct can't be coached.
It's the other stuff that bothers me.
Fundamentals have been lacking for years.
Vitt, Ryan, Spagnuolo, Williams...
It didn't even matter, the tackling has been terrible.
1z's 2z's here or there, but since Vilma and Harper things have been slim.
Harper's issue was coverage, definitely NOT tackling.
Hard to name a "good" pass rusher we've had - I'm talking consistent week to week.
Hard to name a "good" run stuffer.
Hard to name a "good" cover guy that we could count on.
Hard to name a DB that could actually hold on to an interception.
We've had way too many projects that just did not pan out.
I'm guessing the draft board and FA are a group decision.
Just not enough play makers.
Now talent evaluation is coaching!
...and then you still have to have some money.
That's probably our biggest problem since 2009.
A little success means everyone wants to get paid.
We overpaid in several cases and didn't get our monies worth.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Well, for one, when your HC gets suspended for the year, you serve as the interim HC.

To me it just seems so obvious that as fans we really don't know WTH is going on behind the scenes. And no matter how well versed you are in the ways of football, it's still just an opinion. I have heard a lot of guys over the years (Fujita, Vilma, Harper) speak so highly of Vitt, so no way I am considering him as dead weight.

Until they are no longer here I am sticking with the mantra, "In Loomis and Payton I trust."

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Vitt is SP personal flunky. He does so many different things for SP they say, even though they never went into details on what those "things" were. So as long as SP needs laundry coffee and bagels picked up he is the man.

Look the saints trust him enough to plug in as head coach if needed so he has FO love.

IMO he is not going anywhere

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

You do not know that. He is highly respected by everyone that's ever played for him. Flunkies do not get that kind of respect from players.

And still, no one can name a single LB that got better when he left here, or a free agent LB that got worse after they came here.

He had absolutely squat to work with with our LB draft picks.

Vitt is a scapegoat. The problem is we've drafted crappy LB's his whole career here until this year.

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

tongue and cheek. i did give him props he deserved

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

I just want to say... He's not worth a Vitt. :censored:

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Has anyone considered that the DC and drafting sucks?

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Well if the quality of team tackling is a reflection of the coaching, and I'd say it is, then Vitt, along with the other defensive coaches (& special teams) need to be relieved of their duties...

Re: Bringing up the Joe Vitt issue again
 

Ah! Joe Vitt. The Mark Ingram of coaching.

Between 2006 and 2014, the best 3 LBs in B&G have been Vilma, Fujita, and Shanle. Go ahead, make a list of the rest, and try to put together 1 good LB, mixing up all of them.

This season, the Saints got Kikaha, Anthony, Ellerbe... and they are balling. But no, let's argue that Joe Vitt sucks, and that this LB lineup will be hindered by Vitt, given how many All-Pro LBs' careers and development he's screwed up.