WWL Fourth Down on 4

papz · 02-15-2005, 10:32 AM

Harrison around 11 million a year? Are you joking me... look at the number I posted earlier Seven-year $67 million. That\'s is Harrison\'s extension. That doesn\'t come close to 11 million a year. That is also the number that Joe Horn wants.

Obviously you aren\'t reading anything I\'ve written. 6 year 36 million is more than enough. If not let him play this year out at 4.8 which is comparable to Harrison\'s, then tag the year after. If his production isn\'t there and if the franchise number isn\'t good enough (I don\'t see how it wouldn\'t be enough) then trade him or cut him loose. What isn\'t logical about this?

I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture?

As for talking about how much \"you loved the guy\", I think I\'m going to crap in my pants. He\'s a very good player and all, but I certainly don\'t go see Saints game to watch Horn play.

WD52 · 02-15-2005, 02:03 PM

1. Papz, Gumbo, Will you guys give a link to the comments of Joe Horn wanting the same type deal Harrison got...... First of all the only thing I read is that the Saints want to take care of Horn, and Horn stated; My Idea of the Saints taking care of me and there Idea may not be the same, but I hope they will.

2. You guys talk about Joe as if he was not a gamer, and does not make a difference on our team, Like we can do without him, and Papz you stated we have already a talanted corps of wide receivers, and could easily find another #1..... Tell Philedelphia that, thats why after so many years without a good #1 they broke the bank for T.O. \" lets Face it Joe is quite honestly the Best Receiver in Saints History, and it took us how many years to find him..........

3. No I think it would be insaine to give him the exact contract Harrison has, because of his age, But answer me this, How old is Harrison, and how long will he stay at the Level he is playing now, and secondly I do not feel Harrisson is that much better than Horn........ Give us Peyton Manning, and thm Brooks and we will see....... I agree Owens and Moss are Monsters......... there are not many other Receivers I would consider an equal replacement factoring production and age into the mix...... There are a Few young receivers in the League I would take in a heart beat, but they are tied up......

4. I agree we must Draft a replacement, but isn\'t that what we thought Stalworth was....... We need to think about getting younger, but at the Same Time I would like Joe To retire a Saint and be there untill he is Replaced talent wise

[Edited on 15/2/2005 by WD52]

WhoDat · 02-15-2005, 03:06 PM

Harrison around 11 million a year? Are you joking me... look at the number I posted earlier Seven-year $67 million. That\'s is Harrison\'s extension. That doesn\'t come close to 11 million a year. That is also the number that Joe Horn wants.

We\'re both wrong. You said 7 years 67 mill. I thought it was 6 for 72. In fact, it\'s 8 for 72, so he\'s making $9 million a year. Roughly TWICE the $4.8 Joe is scheduled to make this season.

What I can\'t understand is how these things turn into this kind of crap.

ATTENTION --- ATTENTION --- ALL BNGERS!!!!!!

JOE HORN HAS NOT ASKED FOR MARVIN HARRISON MONEY!!!!!

One stupid RUMOR, which has grown out of an ASSUMPTION has somehow turned into Joe Horn asking for $70 Million Dollars. Folks, he hasn\'t. Here\'s the thing that started all of this:

\"At 33, Horn knows an extension could be his final contract, his last chance to make big money before hanging up his cleats. The eight-year, $72.1 million contract Harrison signed in December caught his attention.

\'(The Saints) say they\'re going to take care of me, but their idea of taking care of me, and my idea of taking care of me might be completely different,\' Horn said. \'I hope they follow through. We\'ll see what happens.\'\"

The WRITER SUGGESTS that Harrison money could be relevant, and Horn simply says \"we\'ll see what happens.\" NEVER does he ask for $70 Million. This has been sensationalized (in an attempt to deflect attention from Brooks), and is entirely not the case.

But since I know that no one on this board will actually reign anything in, just thought I\'d start my own rumor.

BIG NEWS:
I heard from a buddy at Mardi Gras while down in NO that Aaron Brooks is going to HOLD OUT if the Saints fail to renogotiate his contract before the season. It seems Aaron feels that he is deserving of a TRUE top 5 contract, and that his pittily$36 million no longer fits that category. AB believes that he is in the same realm as Manning, Culpepper, and McNabb. He thinks his development and success is being held back by a team with poor coaches and underacheiving players. He also thinks that his ability to make money in endorsements is greatly effected by the small market and Delhomme-biased fans of New Orleans. He wants the team to move to LA, but in lieu of that, he will demand a big money contract similar to the $100 million one Peyton Manning recently received. The guy who told me this works for the Zephyrs, is constantly down on Airline, knows a number of executives and other officials with the Saints, and is highly plugged into the professional sports market in N.O. In fact, he met with Hornets officials when the team moved, but they ultimately brought their existing people that work in his capacity.

So what do you guys think? Is Aaron Brooks worth Peyton Manning money? Can you believe that this guy is demanding $100 million??!!!

WD52 · 02-15-2005, 03:15 PM

Thank you Who dat..... Were yo Whodat26 in the old saints nation on the official Neworleanssaints.com? I was WhoDat52.....

People seem to forget that Horn was the 1 and only Bright spot on the Team this year for most of the season..... and Has been Damn solid since he came here from KC..... and Does not really show that much effect of slowing down..... we could still have him produce like he has fo 3-5 more years under the right circumstances, How old is Jerry Rice LOL....

papz · 02-15-2005, 03:45 PM

Look what I wrote... 6 for 36 million a year... is that not fair enough? Why doesn\'t he just play out this year and finish his contract which is similiar to Harrison\'s cap number for this year? THEN TAG HIM THE NEXT YEAR AS I STATED MANY TIMES BEFORE... which will give him TOP 5 RECEIVER MONEY FOR THE YEAR AFTER HE FINISHES HIS CONTRACT... THEN... if he is still as productive... give him his fair share... NOT HARRISON MONEY... HE WANTS TO BE PAID AS A TOP 5 RECEIVER AM I RIGHT? HAS HE NOT SUGGESTED THIS OVER AND OVER? ISN\'T THAT CONSIDERED TO BE AROUND 9 MILLION A YEAR? ISN\'T OWENS, HARRISON, AND MOSS MAKING THAT MUCH? FOR HARRISON THAT WOULD HAVE NEXT YEAR NOT 2005. WHY AM I POSTING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER? MAYBE BECAUSE YOU AREN\'T READING ANYTHING.

Is Rice making more than 2 million? How many balls has he caught the past 2-3 years?

Once again quoted from myself...

\"I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture?\"

WhoDat · 02-15-2005, 03:49 PM

Nope - I never really liked the \"official\" Saints Billboards.

I won\'t play fortune teller and suggest how long Horn will keep producing, but I will say that the guy has earned it. People have been writing him off for three years now. Yes, eventually he will slow down...

But this is what happens on this board. Things are always polarized. For example, right now, if you were to say, \"You know, Joe Horn has been the most consistent and best performer on our team for the last five years, making money below his performance level, and the guy is worth trying to keep around,\" that somehow translates into: \"I think Jow Horn can play forever and $200 million for a single season wouldn\'t be too much to keep the best WR in the league, as far as I\'m concerned!!\" Just like in the past if you said, \"AB is inconsistent, self-centered, not very smart, and part of the problem with this team,\" that translated into \"Aaron Brooks is the worst QB in the history of the league, he is the ONLY problem with the Saints, he should immediately be cut, and maybe I\'ll just go camp outside his house in his bushes and see if I can\'t get a shot off at the SOB.\" It\'s ridiculous.

papz · 02-15-2005, 04:04 PM

In your opinion, what is his fair market value? Doesn\'t it just make sense to let him play out the year then franchise him so everyone will be happy? I\'ve never written off Horn so don\'t categorize me in that category. Go back and read the threads. You are stero-typing this thread as if no one thinks Horn is worth crap.

But if you still want to be a about it... once again the same quote...

\"I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture?\"

[Edited on 15/2/2005 by papz]

[Edited on 16/2/2005 by JOESAM2002]

shadowdrinker · 02-15-2005, 04:06 PM

Horn\'s exact cap charge for his year is 4.8 million.

Harrison\'s cap charge is 5.6 million. I don\'t consider this half of what the top receivers are making.

You\'re looking at a SINGLE year. Joe Horn\'s AVERAGE cost to the team is $4 Million A YEAR. Moss\' is $9 million a year. Harrison\'s will now be something crazy like $11....

But go ahead and talk about how Horn should be cut, just like you all did last season. When he goes to the Pro Bowl next year, you\'ll all be talking about how he really really should be cut. And when he\'s inducted into the Saints Hall of Fame, you\'ll all be talking about how much you loved the guy. Whatever.

I totally agree with that..Horn has been the ONLY consistent player we have had in the past 5 years ...on either side of the ball...

His stats are always great...

2000 - 94 catches - 1340 yards - 8 td\'s

2001 - 83 - 1265 - 9

2002 - 88 - 1312 - 7

2003 - 78 - 973 - 10

2004 - 94 - 1399 - 11

He\'s coming off his best year ever...and comparably, one of the best seasons any Saints wide out has ever had..he\'s still one of the true Elite receivers in the NFL...

Give him a 3 year extension..and watch the yards pile up...

WD52 · 02-15-2005, 04:17 PM

Papz Ok Granted, I received your point. But also in your previous posts, it seems to me you under value Horn, a great deal, and as far as production is concerned he is close to if not a member of the top 5 club go look at his stats this year, and compare them to Moss, Owens, Harrison,and who ever you think has been consistantly in the 4 and 5 spots and come back and tell me why Horn is not in that list ...... or right below it.......

Not to mention, WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW DOR SURE WHAT KINDAA MONEY HORN WILL DEMAND..... wat if it is 6 mil a year as opposed to 9 mil which we all agree is top 5 money, or do we agree on that yet.......

papz · 02-15-2005, 04:22 PM

WD52 why do you all keep trying to prove my point for me... I already did that. Read every post in which I state a fair market value for him. Wait... let me just state it ONE MORE TIME! 6 for 36... opps OMG WE\'VE BEEN AGREEING ALL THIS TIME... OMG! :casstet:

02-15-2005, 10:32 AM	#11
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	WWL Fourth Down on 4 Harrison around 11 million a year? Are you joking me... look at the number I posted earlier Seven-year $67 million. That\'s is Harrison\'s extension. That doesn\'t come close to 11 million a year. That is also the number that Joe Horn wants. Obviously you aren\'t reading anything I\'ve written. 6 year 36 million is more than enough. If not let him play this year out at 4.8 which is comparable to Harrison\'s, then tag the year after. If his production isn\'t there and if the franchise number isn\'t good enough (I don\'t see how it wouldn\'t be enough) then trade him or cut him loose. What isn\'t logical about this? I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture? As for talking about how much \"you loved the guy\", I think I\'m going to crap in my pants. He\'s a very good player and all, but I certainly don\'t go see Saints game to watch Horn play.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

02-15-2005, 02:03 PM	#12
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	WWL Fourth Down on 4 1. Papz, Gumbo, Will you guys give a link to the comments of Joe Horn wanting the same type deal Harrison got...... First of all the only thing I read is that the Saints want to take care of Horn, and Horn stated; My Idea of the Saints taking care of me and there Idea may not be the same, but I hope they will. 2. You guys talk about Joe as if he was not a gamer, and does not make a difference on our team, Like we can do without him, and Papz you stated we have already a talanted corps of wide receivers, and could easily find another #1..... Tell Philedelphia that, thats why after so many years without a good #1 they broke the bank for T.O. \" lets Face it Joe is quite honestly the Best Receiver in Saints History, and it took us how many years to find him.......... 3. No I think it would be insaine to give him the exact contract Harrison has, because of his age, But answer me this, How old is Harrison, and how long will he stay at the Level he is playing now, and secondly I do not feel Harrisson is that much better than Horn........ Give us Peyton Manning, and thm Brooks and we will see....... I agree Owens and Moss are Monsters......... there are not many other Receivers I would consider an equal replacement factoring production and age into the mix...... There are a Few young receivers in the League I would take in a heart beat, but they are tied up...... 4. I agree we must Draft a replacement, but isn\'t that what we thought Stalworth was....... We need to think about getting younger, but at the Same Time I would like Joe To retire a Saint and be there untill he is Replaced talent wise [Edited on 15/2/2005 by WD52]
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"

02-15-2005, 03:06 PM	#13
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	WWL Fourth Down on 4 Harrison around 11 million a year? Are you joking me... look at the number I posted earlier Seven-year $67 million. That\'s is Harrison\'s extension. That doesn\'t come close to 11 million a year. That is also the number that Joe Horn wants. We\'re both wrong. You said 7 years 67 mill. I thought it was 6 for 72. In fact, it\'s 8 for 72, so he\'s making $9 million a year. Roughly TWICE the $4.8 Joe is scheduled to make this season. What I can\'t understand is how these things turn into this kind of crap. ATTENTION --- ATTENTION --- ALL BNGERS!!!!!! JOE HORN HAS NOT ASKED FOR MARVIN HARRISON MONEY!!!!! One stupid RUMOR, which has grown out of an ASSUMPTION has somehow turned into Joe Horn asking for $70 Million Dollars. Folks, he hasn\'t. Here\'s the thing that started all of this: \"At 33, Horn knows an extension could be his final contract, his last chance to make big money before hanging up his cleats. The eight-year, $72.1 million contract Harrison signed in December caught his attention. \'(The Saints) say they\'re going to take care of me, but their idea of taking care of me, and my idea of taking care of me might be completely different,\' Horn said. \'I hope they follow through. We\'ll see what happens.\'\" The WRITER SUGGESTS that Harrison money could be relevant, and Horn simply says \"we\'ll see what happens.\" NEVER does he ask for $70 Million. This has been sensationalized (in an attempt to deflect attention from Brooks), and is entirely not the case. But since I know that no one on this board will actually reign anything in, just thought I\'d start my own rumor. BIG NEWS: I heard from a buddy at Mardi Gras while down in NO that Aaron Brooks is going to HOLD OUT if the Saints fail to renogotiate his contract before the season. It seems Aaron feels that he is deserving of a TRUE top 5 contract, and that his pittily$36 million no longer fits that category. AB believes that he is in the same realm as Manning, Culpepper, and McNabb. He thinks his development and success is being held back by a team with poor coaches and underacheiving players. He also thinks that his ability to make money in endorsements is greatly effected by the small market and Delhomme-biased fans of New Orleans. He wants the team to move to LA, but in lieu of that, he will demand a big money contract similar to the $100 million one Peyton Manning recently received. The guy who told me this works for the Zephyrs, is constantly down on Airline, knows a number of executives and other officials with the Saints, and is highly plugged into the professional sports market in N.O. In fact, he met with Hornets officials when the team moved, but they ultimately brought their existing people that work in his capacity. So what do you guys think? Is Aaron Brooks worth Peyton Manning money? Can you believe that this guy is demanding $100 million??!!!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-15-2005, 03:15 PM	#14
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	WWL Fourth Down on 4 Thank you Who dat..... Were yo Whodat26 in the old saints nation on the official Neworleanssaints.com? I was WhoDat52..... People seem to forget that Horn was the 1 and only Bright spot on the Team this year for most of the season..... and Has been Damn solid since he came here from KC..... and Does not really show that much effect of slowing down..... we could still have him produce like he has fo 3-5 more years under the right circumstances, How old is Jerry Rice LOL....
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80

02-15-2005, 03:45 PM	#15
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	WWL Fourth Down on 4 Look what I wrote... 6 for 36 million a year... is that not fair enough? Why doesn\'t he just play out this year and finish his contract which is similiar to Harrison\'s cap number for this year? THEN TAG HIM THE NEXT YEAR AS I STATED MANY TIMES BEFORE... which will give him TOP 5 RECEIVER MONEY FOR THE YEAR AFTER HE FINISHES HIS CONTRACT... THEN... if he is still as productive... give him his fair share... NOT HARRISON MONEY... HE WANTS TO BE PAID AS A TOP 5 RECEIVER AM I RIGHT? HAS HE NOT SUGGESTED THIS OVER AND OVER? ISN\'T THAT CONSIDERED TO BE AROUND 9 MILLION A YEAR? ISN\'T OWENS, HARRISON, AND MOSS MAKING THAT MUCH? FOR HARRISON THAT WOULD HAVE NEXT YEAR NOT 2005. WHY AM I POSTING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER? MAYBE BECAUSE YOU AREN\'T READING ANYTHING. Is Rice making more than 2 million? How many balls has he caught the past 2-3 years? Once again quoted from myself... \"I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture?\"
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

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02-15-2005, 03:49 PM	#16
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	WWL Fourth Down on 4 Nope - I never really liked the \"official\" Saints Billboards. I won\'t play fortune teller and suggest how long Horn will keep producing, but I will say that the guy has earned it. People have been writing him off for three years now. Yes, eventually he will slow down... But this is what happens on this board. Things are always polarized. For example, right now, if you were to say, \"You know, Joe Horn has been the most consistent and best performer on our team for the last five years, making money below his performance level, and the guy is worth trying to keep around,\" that somehow translates into: \"I think Jow Horn can play forever and $200 million for a single season wouldn\'t be too much to keep the best WR in the league, as far as I\'m concerned!!\" Just like in the past if you said, \"AB is inconsistent, self-centered, not very smart, and part of the problem with this team,\" that translated into \"Aaron Brooks is the worst QB in the history of the league, he is the ONLY problem with the Saints, he should immediately be cut, and maybe I\'ll just go camp outside his house in his bushes and see if I can\'t get a shot off at the SOB.\" It\'s ridiculous.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-15-2005, 04:04 PM	#17
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	WWL Fourth Down on 4 In your opinion, what is his fair market value? Doesn\'t it just make sense to let him play out the year then franchise him so everyone will be happy? I\'ve never written off Horn so don\'t categorize me in that category. Go back and read the threads. You are stero-typing this thread as if no one thinks Horn is worth crap. But if you still want to be a about it... once again the same quote... \"I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture?\" [Edited on 15/2/2005 by papz] [Edited on 16/2/2005 by JOESAM2002]
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

02-15-2005, 04:06 PM	#18
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	WWL Fourth Down on 4 Horn\'s exact cap charge for his year is 4.8 million. Harrison\'s cap charge is 5.6 million. I don\'t consider this half of what the top receivers are making. You\'re looking at a SINGLE year. Joe Horn\'s AVERAGE cost to the team is $4 Million A YEAR. Moss\' is $9 million a year. Harrison\'s will now be something crazy like $11.... But go ahead and talk about how Horn should be cut, just like you all did last season. When he goes to the Pro Bowl next year, you\'ll all be talking about how he really really should be cut. And when he\'s inducted into the Saints Hall of Fame, you\'ll all be talking about how much you loved the guy. Whatever. I totally agree with that..Horn has been the ONLY consistent player we have had in the past 5 years ...on either side of the ball... His stats are always great... 2000 - 94 catches - 1340 yards - 8 td\'s 2001 - 83 - 1265 - 9 2002 - 88 - 1312 - 7 2003 - 78 - 973 - 10 2004 - 94 - 1399 - 11 He\'s coming off his best year ever...and comparably, one of the best seasons any Saints wide out has ever had..he\'s still one of the true Elite receivers in the NFL... Give him a 3 year extension..and watch the yards pile up...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

02-15-2005, 04:17 PM	#19
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	WWL Fourth Down on 4 Papz Ok Granted, I received your point. But also in your previous posts, it seems to me you under value Horn, a great deal, and as far as production is concerned he is close to if not a member of the top 5 club go look at his stats this year, and compare them to Moss, Owens, Harrison,and who ever you think has been consistantly in the 4 and 5 spots and come back and tell me why Horn is not in that list ...... or right below it....... Not to mention, WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW DOR SURE WHAT KINDAA MONEY HORN WILL DEMAND..... wat if it is 6 mil a year as opposed to 9 mil which we all agree is top 5 money, or do we agree on that yet.......
WD52 Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 80	\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"

02-15-2005, 04:22 PM	#20
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	WWL Fourth Down on 4 WD52 why do you all keep trying to prove my point for me... I already did that. Read every post in which I state a fair market value for him. Wait... let me just state it ONE MORE TIME! 6 for 36... opps OMG WE\'VE BEEN AGREEING ALL THIS TIME... OMG! :casstet: