Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

With their beloved New Orleans Saints eliminated from the playoffs for a second consecutive season, some ardent fans have suggested the team intentionally tank games down the stretch in order to secure a higher pick in May's NFL Draft.

The idea being that a top-10 pick could accelerate the club's rebuilding process in the offseason.

For the record, the Saints weren't tanking on Monday night. It just looked that way.

And after watching the lowly Detroit Lions dominate the Saints from start to finish in a misleadingly close 35-27 victory, it's apparent the Saints are much more than a high draft pick away from contention in the NFC.

When you are dominated by the likes of the Lions and Tennessee Titans on your home field, well, you have serious problems. More problems than one draft can fix.

If I were making a wish list for the Saints in the offseason, I'd start with an edge rusher then quickly turn my attention to the following: linebacker; cornerback; wide receiver; guard; defensive tackle; and tight end. Truth be told, the Saints could use help at every position on the roster except running back. And they probably need more than one addition at cornerback, guard and linebacker.



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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

It's almost like the Saints play up to their competition ... good vs teams like Carolina, Tampa Bay and their rivalry with Can'tlanta, but can't get motivated vs the crap teams like Detroit/Tennessee ... it's not that uncommon, :neutral:.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Poor coaching. Draft and free agency can't fix that.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Draft may not fix all our problems but scrapping the entire coaching staff and starting again might.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

I totally disagree

2 more drafts and a ton of dead money off the books then this idiot can say what he wants. the sky is not falling. rob is gone so onwards and upwards.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Detroit and Carolina were similar except Carolina we got a defensive TD and allowed 13 points after Brees was too ineffective.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

100% agree about firing the D coaches. A scheme change on D is needed. Then draft square pegs for square holes. Fix both front lines( believe it or not the D line needs tweeked in a 3-4).

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Complete NEW defensive coaching staff. An offensive guard. A defensive tackle.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Oh Lawd Jesus!!! We're doomed!!!

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

We don't need that much, and what we do need won't cost a fortune.

OG's are typically cheap FA's and middle round draft prospects.
Solid DT's can be had in the 1st 3 rounds.

The toughest task will be a pass rusher and a starting WR.

Between the Draft and Free Agency, we'll address every need with at least an adequate player.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Ireland's influence helps this years draft.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Not the beat draft for DT's. A 3-4 I go with Jenkins and Davidson at NT and draft a 3-4 DE(good ones this year) and OLB( good ones this year also) and sliding Ellerbe in the middle with Anthony(watch the INT's go up with that combo) to shore up the gaping hole in the middle and both can blitz at will. The secondary will be fine with PJ, Lewis and Sunseri coming back Byrd will take care of that. Trade Jordan, Vaccarro, and see if Bush could play a true SS and if not trade him and aquire one in FA. And don't overlook the lb. we stole from Houston( he's good) Totally agree about G and I will add T and TE. The rest should be for solid rotation.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

i agree with this article

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

We let that Houston guy go. I thought we did.

We need to fix the offense and the defense will play better well rested with the help of a pass rusher.

We need a Martavis Bryant to counter Cooks. Is Cooks a traditional number 1 receiver though? His size will hurt him in certain games.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

At least the article was posted on the website, so ink and paper weren't wasted. If we are talking needs:

Offense, what it really needs:
1. Guards
2. Less predictable play calling/faster developing plays

Defense:
1. Remove Browner
2. A bona fide tackle
2. Get Jim Schwartz and let him pick his staff.



Both could use some backups.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

I think we are good at corner assuming Lewis gets back to his old self. We need a DT and with a year under his belt we are set at MLB. We need a OG for sure and I may be in the minority but I want Juicy fruit back and hopefully Brees gives a discount. I hope we take a pass rusher in the first round and we will go back to the Super Bowl.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Gotta land Andrew Billings in the first round... That'll help solve some problems.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

That's the second time I've seen Jim Schwartz mentioned on here ... are you sure? He gets a little loopy at times, ie Gregg Williams style, and lost the team in Detroit with some of his shenanigans ... though they did display a more focused, motivated style of play then they do currently ... he was a pretty good D/C in TEN and BUF, #shrug.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Detroit's No. 53 makes my NFL All-time Names Team...even if it is a special teamer...

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Like Jason David, and like the situation a few years ago with a certain quarterback and coach who simply had to go, in order for the team to ever improve, I think it all starts with getting rid of Browner. That alone will kickstart the process. If they got rid of Browner, I think people here would be surprised, at how much improvement that move alone could make on the defense. Without the penalties, first downs and yards that he has given up single-handedly, the Saints would actually be in the mid-20s as a defensive rank right now! He gives up crucial first downs, that extend drives and then result in scores: if you take even just one or two of those scores/drives away, if you stall those drives, then almost ALL these games are completely different in character. He's a cancer. He is single handedly affecting the outcome of these games, and quite honestly I wouldn't be surprised at all if we found out down the line someday, that he was somehow influencing them through gambling or by affecting fantasy league betting or changing point spreads or something, like the point shaving scandal at Tulane or the fixing the 1919 World Series. I would not be surprised or shocked if that were true!

For me it all starts with getting rid of Browner. Same way the Saints went through a bad spell with Jason David, and once he was eliminated from the roster, the team actually kinda took off and soared, it was like a weight had been lifted from their collective shoulders. I'm over simplifying, of course, but everything truly starts with that move. Browner being on the next train out of town after the Falcons game, will give me hope for next year.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Can you draft coaches?

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Unfortunately that won't change. So the better the talent the better the execution.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

I agree with you about the team being better without Browner. Sean Payton has this thing about corners.......when he first came here he invested a lot of time brining in FA's and draft picks. None of them really panned out. It's his weakness. He can't evaluate defensive talent worth a damn.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Browner has played better under Allen. Also, though, he was designed to stop elite receivers, not the likes of Ginn Jr. He did stop Watkins and Megatron. Robinson is another one of those receivers.

I think if we had a pass rush Browner would be even better.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

I'm sorry but QB, MLB, OC, FB, FS, SS, LT, RT, K, P, NB all disagree.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Here is my draft wish list: G, DE, DT, OLB(No particular draft order)

If we can find a starter at each one of those positions we will be set. I know a lot of people will look at that and say 'Go home, you're drunk' but hear me out. The WRs are set, in my opinion. Even with Colston being on his way out, we have 3 solid WRs(Cooks, Snead, Coleman) so why waste a 1st round pick on a WR? A late round small school guy like Darrin Peterson would work just fine. As for DBs get rid of Browner and welcome back a healthy Keenan Lewis and PJ Williams(hopefully Swanson hasn't done too much damage to himself and can come back as well) and the CBs are set.

So, I would strongly disagree with the article and state that a really good draft COULD make the Saints a contender again.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

On offense, needs are Starting Right Guard and Starting WR (X) receiver, that's it really...

On defense, first thing you have to do is decide what kind of defense is going to be schemed because we've drafted 3-4 personnel for the front seven the past two drafts and we're running a 4-3 to feature Cam Jordan (who's looked awful as a pass rusher and has blown containment on several big run gashes (Detroit late comes to mind))...

Cam is a poor fit, should be traded for that reason and to begin to unload cap space...

If we continue to draft 3-4. as we have for the front seven these past two drafts (i.e. Stephone Anthony, Hau'oli Kikaha, Davis Tull, John Jenkins, Tyeler Davison) getting OLB Karim Edebali on the field and ILB Dannel Ellerbe healthy, then we only have need for a MLB for depth and a couple of late round maulers for the three down linemen rotation...

So we're not that far away...Now, if we reverse course and build a 4-3 around Cam Jordan, there's more work to be done and is a mistake because Jordan isn't as effective against regular starting offensive linemen...

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

I don't understand the reasoning behind getting rid of Jordan. He is the best lineman we have and arguably the best defensive player. He has as many pressures as J.J. Watt and is THE leader of the defense. We need to be building around him on the front 7. Here is what ProFootball Focus said about him in their '10 biggest pro bowl snubs' article:

Cameron Jordan, DE, New Orleans Saints (91.6):

A late season surge is something that you could definitely not level at Cameron Jordan, who has been ultra productive on a bad Saints’ defense since the start of the season. That last point is perhaps what has held Jordan off of the roster; unfairly overlooked on an individual level due to the failings of the defensive unit around him. What more Jordan could have done than rack up 66 defensive pressures, five batted passes, and 30 stops to help those around him, I’m not quite sure. A crowded pack on the edge for certain, but Jordan’s play this season is absolutely worthy of a trip to Hawaii.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

The issue is the rest of the front three and other linebacker. Jordan,Anthony and Kikaha are noce building blocks. Get another DE/OLB that can get pressure and a pair of brutes to fill the DT and stop the push on the line and kill the run and the defense will look decent. As much as id love a top 5 defense we can be contenders with anything in the top 15

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Hopefully you all remember our record before the 09 season.

07 08 were very similar to 14 15... I'm hoping for Payton to stay but all of the position coaches need to go.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Cam Jordan is easily the best defensive player we have. He also consistently ranks out on the top of his position in pass rushing and run stopping according to pff. Don't pay attention to the knee jerk reaction folks.

Cam needs some players across the line which can also draw double teams. Outside of Cam we have NO ONE that poses any threat. We have the worst front 4 in the NFL, if jj watt had the supporting cast Cam had, jj wouldn't be a pro bowler every year.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Trading Cam = 18 million in dead money = stupid move

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

you know I watched Anthony a few plays the other afternoon and yes hes good but a couple of plays he just a fraction of a sec. from making plays that could have changed the game. yes he was late on filling a few holes but that will change .possibly by next season. its like getting a better oick in next years draft when u had rookies in there first year running all over the field trying to figure this thing out. Anthony will be better and better, that's just him, we had more rookies that were thrown in the fire first out, i'm going in to next season with being better and i'm pumped for whats coming;.payton knew this season was a rebuild, they just can't say it anymore in these days. wait till next year boys then we can start thinking superbowl after then. it takes time.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Jordan just needs some help...along with Anthony and Ki'kaha.
The DB's were terrible because they had to cover for 17 seconds.
Just a decent pass rush would force a few more quick or errant throws.
Doesn't even have to be "turn overs". I consider 3rd down stops to be turnovers.
We did nothing well on defense. I say pick something and be good at it.
Then build around that. Pass rush, run stop, coverage, ...doesn't even matter- just pick one.
Its the little things that got to me this season.
Same foolishness every week.
Scoring 20's , 30's and 40's and defense can't even stop a clock.
Just pick something and be good it.
May surprise at how much better the other things suddenly get.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Cam Jordan is not even on the same level as Watts and never will be. Watts never takes plays off and constantly beats O-linemen. I would trade him in a heartbeat just like I would have trader Ellis, Vilma and Smith. I can't see cutting him because he does produce to a point but I'm all about trading him for picks. As far as building a D around him, hell no.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Cam Jordan = Will Smith...

I'm not drinking the imperfect PFF stat coolaid, I'm watching games where Cam Jordan consistently fails containment on run plays (that last big run gash by the Lions comes to mind - go back, watch the film)...

and, like a former defensive end, gets his numbers in bunches against non-regular starting offensive linemen; he's not having a consistent impact, week end, week out...

Respectfully, I don't agree he's even our top defender...

Before Jordan, I'd rank...

(1) Keenan Lewis
(2) Delvin Breaux
(3) Stephone Anthony
(4) Hau'oli Kikaha

Cam Jordan's stock will never be higher and I'd move him now for a younger stud with a better motor...

And you can sign and trade to minimize the dead money impact...

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

In 06 we went to the NFCCG with a rookie 7th rd WR, Devery henderson who was being called a bust the year before and Terrance Copper. We had Deuce but he was basically crippled at that point in his career. Reggie was talented clueless and the O line was a patchwork of no names.

The defense was what we wish we had now, at the lower end of mediocre. The year before we were a train wreck.

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

I bet the Eagles disagree and so do I...

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Deuce re-invented himself like very few players I can remember. He did it on savvy and heart. But by 06 he was playing on two bad knees and also had ankle issues. Not knocking what he did, it was amazing!

But I'm comparing him to this guy

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

Here's another to bring back those fond memories :bng:

Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix
 

I wish we had another freight train like Deuce for next season.