RANDY MOSS A RAIDER

shadowdrinker · 02-24-2005, 06:18 AM

This is the move many people thought would be amde by the Vikes...

When you really think about it...the Vikes did the very best thing..in the long run...to help thier team overall...

They free up major cap space...get a quality LB..and now have an extra 2 picks...one of which is very high...and can now..effectively begin to plug some gaping holes in the D..

McCombs went out with a bang....I could only hope that Benson would steal a page out of that book...a.s.a.p.

It will undoubtedly be a very bitter pill for most Vikes fans to swallow...but..it was neccesary...like it or not...

Danno · 02-24-2005, 07:35 AM

yes, you do have to factor the pain in the butt-i-me-mine, negative effect on the team but look at the bucks too. it is high rolling when you invest over 10% of your team\'s cap space in one player, no matter how goodhe is- especially a wideout. 4 more years at 9mil+! with the pick they will have a shot at comparitively cheap braylon edwards or mike williams. then with the savings sign a rolle or surtain and still be ahead by millions financially. maybe the vikings have realized that the winners in this league do it with defense and decided to give that a try. i think the same could be said about the saints if not more so. it also reminds of the intense emotional attachment in the \'why trade joe horn?\' thread. it is who can get the most out of the salary cap bucks. i\'d take the leagues leading receiver (derrick mason) with four consecutive 1000 yd yrs for $4.7million (base salary $3.2 million and roster bonus $1.5 million) over moss at 9million anyday. that isnt even beginning to address the attitude and issues aspect. sorry to get on a soapbox but it ain\'t the best players anymore it is bang for the buck.

Well said. Its a deep year for WR\'s in both the draft and free agency.
With the money they saved and the draft pick they could end up with Harris (a solid LB), a good WR (like Mason), and draft a stud player (like DJ Wiliams as well as their own 1st rounder (to get the best available stud DT/DE).

Raiders - Randy Moss

Vikings -
Napoleon Harris - LB
DJ Williams - LB
Derrick Mason - WR (the top WR in 2004)
Travis Johnson, or Anttaj Hawthorne, or Shaun Cody - DT

If you ask me, the Vikes got the best of that deal. If we got a deal like that I\'d wet myself.

4saintspirit · 02-24-2005, 08:18 AM

If you look at some of the stars the Saints gave away just to get rid of problems the Vikings deal looks great -- For example -- Roaf and Turley went for pennies (forget that Turley is hurt now) -- we got little to nothing and now look at our line. I think the Vikings did well ---

WhoDat · 02-24-2005, 09:08 AM

Danno - I was thinking the exact same thing.

papz · 02-24-2005, 10:00 AM

I don\'t understand why everyone is calling Harris a solid LB. He has done absolutely nothing since he was drafted in the first round. So basically he was had for a first round pick which is relatively cheap for a player of his caliber. 1st and 3rd or 1st and 4th would have made a little more sense.

Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2002 Raiders 15 81 59.0 22 0.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 2
2003 Raiders 16 107 74.0 33 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 2
2004 Raiders 14 61 47.0 14 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

TOTAL 45 249 180.0 69 2.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 5

But they could afford to give up him for cheap because of the cap space they free\'d up. If it wasn\'t for that, then the Raiders got the better part of the deal. Overall, with all aspects involved, it was a fair trade for both sides. Now the Vikings don\'t have to worry about the \"Randy ratio\" and the Raiders will have one of the best offenses in the league.

On the side note, Moss helped Burleson a great deal last year. With Moss demanding extra attention, he was able to get free and make big plays last year. It will be interesting with that 30 million cap space, which Probowl receiver will they choose to sign. My guess is either Burress or Muhammad. Someone comparable to Moss\'s size and speed. No matter what anyone says, Culpepper will definately miss Moss. I\'ve seen tons of ridiculous lobs in which Moss has bailed him out of.

[Edited on 24/2/2005 by papz]

saintswhodi · 02-24-2005, 10:21 AM

Danno - I was thinking the exact same thing.

Then Who if you agree with Danno, why are you so against trading Horn in another thread? Couldn\'t we reap the same benefits?

papz · 02-24-2005, 10:28 AM

lol sw

Point well made.

LKelley67 · 02-24-2005, 10:50 AM

i think as much or more could be had for horn also cuz of his much more favorable cap numbers even if he isnt the same sorta gamebreaker.

GumboBC · 02-24-2005, 11:04 AM

Joe Horn\'s age HAS to be taken into consideration. Of course, Joe doesn\'t want to hear any talk of age being a factor in his contract. All Joe want\'s to talk about are the \"stats\" he puts up every year.

Well, Joe has been paid for that production already!!

The question - from the TEAM standpoint - is can an aging Joe Horn continue to produce. AND - how much money is the TEAM willing to gamble (and it is a gamble) that Joe can keep producing those stats in the next 3 or 4 years.

What\'s Horn now? 34? That\'s getting up there for a football player. Especially a WR!

IMO, we need Joe for one or two more years. If it were me, I\'d pay Joe good money for one or two years and start looking for his replacement. IF someone better, or as good, came along, I wouldn\'t hesitate to make the move. For the right price of course!!

LKelley67 · 02-24-2005, 11:16 AM

could whodi n billy shake on the trade horn idea principles? show all those naysayers that you neither rant just for the sake of ranting or an agenda.

back to qb\'s later

02-24-2005, 06:18 AM	#11
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER This is the move many people thought would be amde by the Vikes... When you really think about it...the Vikes did the very best thing..in the long run...to help thier team overall... They free up major cap space...get a quality LB..and now have an extra 2 picks...one of which is very high...and can now..effectively begin to plug some gaping holes in the D.. McCombs went out with a bang....I could only hope that Benson would steal a page out of that book...a.s.a.p. It will undoubtedly be a very bitter pill for most Vikes fans to swallow...but..it was neccesary...like it or not...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

02-24-2005, 07:35 AM	#12
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER yes, you do have to factor the pain in the butt-i-me-mine, negative effect on the team but look at the bucks too. it is high rolling when you invest over 10% of your team\'s cap space in one player, no matter how goodhe is- especially a wideout. 4 more years at 9mil+! with the pick they will have a shot at comparitively cheap braylon edwards or mike williams. then with the savings sign a rolle or surtain and still be ahead by millions financially. maybe the vikings have realized that the winners in this league do it with defense and decided to give that a try. i think the same could be said about the saints if not more so. it also reminds of the intense emotional attachment in the \'why trade joe horn?\' thread. it is who can get the most out of the salary cap bucks. i\'d take the leagues leading receiver (derrick mason) with four consecutive 1000 yd yrs for $4.7million (base salary $3.2 million and roster bonus $1.5 million) over moss at 9million anyday. that isnt even beginning to address the attitude and issues aspect. sorry to get on a soapbox but it ain\'t the best players anymore it is bang for the buck. Well said. Its a deep year for WR\'s in both the draft and free agency. With the money they saved and the draft pick they could end up with Harris (a solid LB), a good WR (like Mason), and draft a stud player (like DJ Wiliams as well as their own 1st rounder (to get the best available stud DT/DE). Raiders - Randy Moss Vikings - Napoleon Harris - LB DJ Williams - LB Derrick Mason - WR (the top WR in 2004) Travis Johnson, or Anttaj Hawthorne, or Shaun Cody - DT If you ask me, the Vikes got the best of that deal. If we got a deal like that I\'d wet myself.

02-24-2005, 08:18 AM	#13
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER If you look at some of the stars the Saints gave away just to get rid of problems the Vikings deal looks great -- For example -- Roaf and Turley went for pennies (forget that Turley is hurt now) -- we got little to nothing and now look at our line. I think the Vikings did well ---
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

02-24-2005, 09:08 AM	#14
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER Danno - I was thinking the exact same thing.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

02-24-2005, 10:00 AM	#15
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER I don\'t understand why everyone is calling Harris a solid LB. He has done absolutely nothing since he was drafted in the first round. So basically he was had for a first round pick which is relatively cheap for a player of his caliber. 1st and 3rd or 1st and 4th would have made a little more sense. Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def 2002 Raiders 15 81 59.0 22 0.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 2 2003 Raiders 16 107 74.0 33 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 2 2004 Raiders 14 61 47.0 14 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 1 TOTAL 45 249 180.0 69 2.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 5 But they could afford to give up him for cheap because of the cap space they free\'d up. If it wasn\'t for that, then the Raiders got the better part of the deal. Overall, with all aspects involved, it was a fair trade for both sides. Now the Vikings don\'t have to worry about the \"Randy ratio\" and the Raiders will have one of the best offenses in the league. On the side note, Moss helped Burleson a great deal last year. With Moss demanding extra attention, he was able to get free and make big plays last year. It will be interesting with that 30 million cap space, which Probowl receiver will they choose to sign. My guess is either Burress or Muhammad. Someone comparable to Moss\'s size and speed. No matter what anyone says, Culpepper will definately miss Moss. I\'ve seen tons of ridiculous lobs in which Moss has bailed him out of. [Edited on 24/2/2005 by papz]
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

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02-24-2005, 10:21 AM	#16
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER Danno - I was thinking the exact same thing. Then Who if you agree with Danno, why are you so against trading Horn in another thread? Couldn\'t we reap the same benefits?

02-24-2005, 10:28 AM	#17
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER lol sw Point well made.

02-24-2005, 10:50 AM	#18
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER i think as much or more could be had for horn also cuz of his much more favorable cap numbers even if he isnt the same sorta gamebreaker.

02-24-2005, 11:04 AM	#19
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER Joe Horn\'s age HAS to be taken into consideration. Of course, Joe doesn\'t want to hear any talk of age being a factor in his contract. All Joe want\'s to talk about are the \"stats\" he puts up every year. Well, Joe has been paid for that production already!! The question - from the TEAM standpoint - is can an aging Joe Horn continue to produce. AND - how much money is the TEAM willing to gamble (and it is a gamble) that Joe can keep producing those stats in the next 3 or 4 years. What\'s Horn now? 34? That\'s getting up there for a football player. Especially a WR! IMO, we need Joe for one or two more years. If it were me, I\'d pay Joe good money for one or two years and start looking for his replacement. IF someone better, or as good, came along, I wouldn\'t hesitate to make the move. For the right price of course!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-24-2005, 11:16 AM	#20
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	RANDY MOSS A RAIDER could whodi n billy shake on the trade horn idea principles? show all those naysayers that you neither rant just for the sake of ranting or an agenda. back to qb\'s later