Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

What Sean Payton wants from the New Orleans Saints: Scout's Take podcast

What New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton sought from GM Mickey Loomis and the team in their recent talks is not more money or more power. What he wants is a stronger supporting cast, with a front office that will help make more sound decisions on free agents and college players, NOLA.com | The Times-Picayune contributor Chris Landry of LandryFootball.com said in our latest Scout's Take podcast.

"A head coach can't do all the work," Landry said. "The head coach is not in a position to study pro personnel film all year long while he is coaching. He's not in position to study college film all year long while he is coaching. So, you're only as good as the information that is filtered out, and the level of trust that you have with that person.

"I think what's happened over the years, due to some movement in personnel with people in the personnel department, I think Sean has become more involved and has had to over-extend himself, as have the coaches, and I think that's contributed to some of the decisions."

The Saints overhauled portions of their scouting department last offseason, which including the hiring of former NFL GM Doug Ireland. That was done in part to bring another experienced voice into the scouting department, Landry said.

Landry said the 2012 move by team owner Tom Benson to make Loomis the executive vice president of the New Orleans Pelicans might have created a void in the Saints organization.

"Sean wants to be a football coach," Landry said. "He wants to have some involvement in football personnel but he wants to have someone that he can kind of ride side-saddle with that sees football the same way, that is spending all of their time looking at pro personnel and looking at college personnel and really making the right recommendations. I think that void has existed and I think it's something that Sean feels could enhance and would enhance the organization going forward."

Payton could also find the type of setup he desires with other organizations, including he San Francisco 49ers and their GM Trent Baalke, who Landry said is a "close confidant" to Payton. Payton also has a history with the New York Giants as a former assistant coach there, and could also be interested in what the Philadelphia Eagles could offer.

Listen to more in the Scout's Take podcast... http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf...saints_article

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

ride side-saddle with that sees football the same way

i can see this and i can see this might be the issue

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

We need somebody who really understands defense like Payton knows offense.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Bingo!

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

I would love to see us get a DC like Wade Phillips. He does on defense what Payton does on offense. Anywhere he has been DC has become an elite unit and often with the same personnel that weren't elite before. The job he's done now in Denver solidified for me that he is a top DC. And I think he understands he is meant to be a DC and not a head coach.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

What he trying to say is we need a G.M. with knowledgable scouts not a G.M. that watch ESPN or NFL network with Deion saying "pay the man"

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Say what?

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

This makes sense to me. We need scouts, not just someone with a tittle but someone who knows what he is looking at and can make some good sound judgement based on talent.

We need to hit on more draft picks!!!

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

And understands scouting. I really like this idea. It may be the answer.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...psc6790fd9.gif

I don't have a clue.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

I think we may be headed in the right direction since we hired Jeff Ireland

Last draft - Damian Swann in round 5 - when healthy a very promising player
PJ Williams - many said should have been a first rounder
Kikaha - "Analysts" said he only succeeded because of his teammate, he proved that wasn't true.
Stephone Anthony - Looks like he could develop into the leader on D eventually.

If we continue drafting like we did last year, we will be successful, don't waste second round picks on someone like Stanley Jean Baptiste when you can get someone like Hau' Oli Kikaha instead.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Plain and simple for you! We need scouts that know how to evaluate talent

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Well it appears we may have finally found them, based on our 2015 draft.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Well, if last draft is an indicator of what we can expect, I think we have that now. Speak Engrish next time :banana:

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Does this mean the good ole' boys are out !! I hope so.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

It was my punctuation. Next time read a little slower and you will notice that I must use spell check. You might want to try it. Engrish?

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

I see you dont seem to understand the genius that is Danno very well.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

I was joking. Man..relax. good lawd. Some people are so touchy.

On second thought, since you want to be a douche bag, I use spell check as well. It's called reading what you typed before you post and sound like an illiterate moron.

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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Can we end this right here. nola_swammi and CharityMike

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

You know me, I'm cool. Was gonna take the high road but this isn't the first time this dude has mouthed off unnecessarily. My bad.

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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Mouthed off? Can you copy and paste what you referring to? Don't get mad when you try to call me out and you can't even catch "Engrish" after you proof read. YOU MIGHT NEED SPELL CHECK IF YOU WANT TO CALL ME OR ANYONE OUT

I won't call you a moron cause I don't know you. I might call you illiterate but that's a fact ;)

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

It is blatantly obvious, humor escapes you or I failed at the humor. Might be a little of both. I typed that on purpose because of your illiterate post. Here's a hint, when someone posts a dancing anything, the post is usually in a joking manner. You should see someone about that Internet rage though. Might work into your personal life evetually.

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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

You need to proof read this. It seems like you calling yourself a illiterate moron but I know what you meant ;)

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Yeah right! Engrish! If I misspelled something I might believe that logic but to come out of the blue with Engrish you misspelled English. Nice try to save face

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Lol..whatever dude. I'm done with this. I know better for next time.

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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

All is cool bruh! I can laugh at my mistake just hard not to shoot back at insults (illiterate moron). HAPPY NEW YEAR's ,,,, geaux saints

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Ireland looks to be the real deal. We need to find a pro scout that understands our defensive game plan. Oh wait......we don't have a definitive plan. We need a DC that can lay out a plan and explain to the pro scouts what he is looking for. The best player available doesn't always fit the scheme.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Seems simple.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Is this information from someone who would know what Sean wants, are just a guy telling us what he thinks again? If it's true, then it's good to know that Sean agrees with those of us who have been critical of Loomis.

But Sean hasn't made the issue any better by retaining the likes of Joe Vitt and Bill Johnson over the years. He's made some bad hires, and fired those guys, but he wants to protect his buddies no matter how awful their position groups have been. That's not how a good coach should run things. He's responsible for putting together a coaching staff that fits together as much as he is for drawing up plays.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

It was a better draft. But that shouldn't have been hard to do... In all seriousness, I did like some of the picks but I still hate the selection of Peat. That was really a whiff, in my opinion. I know it's early, but I'm just not catching any warm, fuzzy feelings about him developing.

Kikaha has a lot left to prove. I love his attitude and burst, but not much else... Yet. I've got more patience with him. He's very one dimensional right now, but he does do a good job of stripping the ball out when he gets the chance.

Anthony was just ok, to me. I'm not sure what we have in him. It would be nice if Ellerbe could stay healthy so we could see how those two feed off each other.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

WOW! We should call this the"overstating the obvious thread"...

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

I'll give you the Peet pick. That has shown, as of now, to be the worst one of the draft but who knows, he has the size and tools to be good, he just needs to get it together. Some players take longer to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

As far as Anthony and Kikaha, c'mon man. Anthony was given the rains to run the defense as a rookie! Under the likes of RR coaching. Did he make mistakes, of course, he is a ROOKIE. I don't know what expectations you had but they sound like they are a little to much. Kikaha is another one. He makes plays PERIOD. What more can you ask for? You have to remember, these guys are coming straight in from college and are starting in the NFL where its like playing the best players every week.There is an adjustment period and I believe these guys arrows are pointing up.

I think all things considered, we have some solid players that will be on this team for awhile. That draft seems to be one of the better ones we have had in some years but I don't think it's just a coincidence that it happened as soon as Ireland got here.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

My take ...

Stephone Anthony was drafted to be a true MLB. IMO he has progressed nicely over the course of 1 full season. Instincts are there. With coaching, he will learn to play within that mindset and greatly improve.

Kikaha .. don't think he has been playing healthy since pre Redskins game (that would explain some of the limited play last few weeks).

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

I don't see where anything I said was unfair. I mentioned the positives with Kikaha, but I kind of pointed out the obvious that he's one dimensional. That was said about him in college, not just as a rookie in the NFL, and it showed. He gets blown out of plays because he doesn't change directions very well. I've always said if he can fix that he'll be great. But for now, it is as advertised.

I'm aware that Anthony was part of an awful defense. That's why I specifically said "I don't know what we have in him". He looked like a rookie. I know it's easy to say that, well, he's a rookie so he should play like one. I didn't see enough that stood out with him. I didn't expect pro bowler. I didn't exactly jump for joy when they drafted him.

Like I said, I thought he was ok. Let's see what he does moving forward. No harm in that, is there?

Lastly, I'm not on the Jeff Ireland love boat. Last I saw of him before he came here, he was getting fired from a sinking ship in Miami. I don't know why I'm supposed to expect great things from him. So I am just waiting to see how he does over an extended period of time. So far the needle has moved a little, at least with the last draft, in the right direction, but as you can see I remain skeptical.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion and maybe I misinterpreted your post or posts. The vibe I took from them are that you are not impressed with our rookies, you are not impressed with the draft and you are not impressed with Ireland. This is why I said maybe your expectations are a bit to high. I know for me, these rookies and this last draft are one of the better ones we have had in awhile, maybe even since 2006. As a franchise, we have never been good at getting the right people in the draft. So my expectations were not very high and after this year, I am left feeling like we did pretty damn good. It's not a coincidence that we revamped our entire scouting department including the main guy in Ireland and we suddenly had a successful draft. I understand the skepticism with Ireland with how things happened in Miami but this is a different organization and a lot of times, it takes a change of scenery to get back right.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

I guess we are at a new age when draft picks have to all contribute as starters. I remember when teams never expect draft picks to see the field as starters year one and we are seeing *****ing about this draft? We had like 7 first year players contributing as starters. That is unheard of.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

You're right that I'm not impressed by Ireland. Not yet anyway. I didn't say that about anything else, though. I said that I liked some of the picks, but I gave my opinion on their performance thus far. I like the idea behind drafting Kikaha, but he's got to do something other than just bull rush all the time before I crown him a success. I understand he's got to develop. I said that I have patience with him. I feel similar with most of our draft picks. Swann outplayed any expectation I had for him. He just needs to learn how to protect his head when making a hit.

I like the value we got in the other low round picks, even though they didn't play much (some didn't play at all). They at least have potential, and it's hard to find legitimate potential in later rounds. The most impressive rookie was not a draft pick, and that would be Breaux.

Maybe this will make my point a little more clear. We all know how bad our drafts have been in recent years. Well, there have been guys who were actually said to be good picks after their first year, only for them to turn out not so good. Guys like Vaccaro and Hicks, for instance.

So I'm not getting all excited about Jeff Ireland because a couple of guys showed glimpses. This is not about what I think these players will turn into, it's very simply that UNTIL I see these guys actually develop into reliable starters, I'm not going to say that we've found the solution in Ireland.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

If you're referring to my comments, see my above post.

But in all actuality, there are a lot of rookies who make big impacts nowadays. There was once a time when freshman didn't play in college. We've found out that a change in philosophy has proven that younger players can get it done, if they have that much talent.

Should we expect it from every rookie? Absolutely not. But we should see a little more from the high round picks. That has been rare. I didn't **tch about anything. I've seen enough to withhold my judgement for a while. I've seen all of you guys complaining about this, that, and the other for years. We all complain about things. So now I'm in the minority? I doubt it. People change their tune awful quick sometimes.

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

In a few years when we look back at this draft, be prepared to add Davis Tull among the names you'll remember from this draft...

And don't discount how important Tyeler Davison was this season as his role will definitely grow with what will be a much improved defense next season...

Considering Swann's susceptibility for concussion, don't be surprised he's not a Saint for long; it'll be the smart move for both the young man and organization...

Everyone seems fixated on just the draft, but this may also be the shot across the bow for changes that are desperately needed on the coaching staff (i.e. Joe Vitt, Bill Johnson, Bret Ingalls)...

And Payton realizes this, needs to be able to 'free' himself of getting his hands dirty, but wants to be sure he and Ireland are on the same page at the end of the day...

Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants
 

Well it is actually HAPPY NEW YEAR, not plural or plural possessive but whatever.