2016 Saints Free Agency

jeanpierre · 01-09-2016, 08:01 PM

Harrison, I believe was a Restricted Free Agent last season; I really like him; Hagan and I went back and forth in our mancrush for him last season; problem you've got is you can't commit that much money to him when there's not that much too commit, especially when you've got this scheme contradiction between personnel and where Allen is putting his pieces on the board...

Fairley is a great physical talent for sure, but there's just waaay too much baggage there for the Saints to touch...

Brooks recently missed a game because of some GI issues; this is not something new for him; having personal history, I can say this could be something serious and I wouldn't want to commit that much money to a guard with those question marks...

Ayers has been a fine player, but he's 30+ and we've got as good and younger already on the team...

ChrisXVI · 01-09-2016, 08:15 PM

I don't understand gauging how players will fit on our defense if we run a 3-4 or a 4-3. We will spend 33.3% of our defensive snaps in our base defense. The other 66.6% of the time we'll have 4 down lineman and some combination of LB's and DB's. At this point, just assume that no matter what our base defense is we'll normally be playing with 4 down defensive lineman.

Dennis Allen has never run a 3-4 defense so let's look for guys that will fit on a 4 man front.

jeanpierre · 01-09-2016, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Dennis Allen has never run a 3-4 defense so let's look for guys that will fit on a 4 man front.

Regardless of preferences to a 3-4 or a 4-3 scheme, not to mention the sub packages (nickel, dime), here's the thing...

We've posted this on multiple threads that we've drafted players that would seem to be better suited to a 3-4 base front...

After Payton made the declaration to move to a 3-4, and in the following draft we traded two picks to move up and select NT John Jenkins...

Stephone Anthony will be a fine Mike in either front, but could be more of a playmaker in a 3-4...

Hau'oli Kikaha would be a way better OLB in a 3-4 where he's focused more of rushing the passer, as is his strength, rather than in a 4-3 where he's dropping more into coverage...

Then we took another OLB in Davis Tull who's very much a clone of Kikaha...

Then there's the wasted talent on the bench of Kasim Edebali who's got five sacks in very limited play...

I'd rather just get a 3-4 defensive coordinator to see this thing through rather than change course mid-stream again and spend 2-3 seasons rebuilding for a 4-3...

It's just this rudderless zig-zaging that is the primary cause for our defense sucking balls...

Allen is obviously a much more organized, meticulous coach than Ryan was...

But we need a Defensive Coordinator who'll scheme with what we have rather than putting his system in and trying to fit square pegs into round holes...

rezburna · 01-10-2016, 12:16 AM

We might as well stick with the 3-4 defense. I'd make serious runs at both Tamba Hali and Aldon Smith. Sign both of them. I'd move Ellerbe inside with Anthony. Kikiha would become a rotational player and learn from a veteran pass rusher like Hali. I'd also go after Kelvin Sheppard. Let Ellerbe be a rotational guy and conserve his health. With the upgrade at rushing the passer, the defense is set.

We have to release Colston, Browner, Evans and Strief. I'd let a good majority of our free agents walk as well. Restructure Brees, and continue the youth movement.

jeanpierre · 01-10-2016, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

We might as well stick with the 3-4 defense. I'd make serious runs at both Tamba Hali and Aldon Smith. Sign both of them. I'd move Ellerbe inside with Anthony. Kikiha would become a rotational player and learn from a veteran pass rusher like Hali. I'd also go after Kelvin Sheppard. Let Ellerbe be a rotational guy and conserve his health. With the upgrade at rushing the passer, the defense is set.

We have to release Colston, Browner, Evans and Strief. I'd let a good majority of our free agents walk as well. Restructure Brees, and continue the youth movement.

Rez, believe we have the pieces needed at OLB if we scheme more 3-4...

But we'd definitely need some help on the inside; I like Broncos' ILB Danny Trevathan to complement Anthony...

Agree with the cuts; Colston is painful as he's been a class act and a warrior throughout, but his cap number is far too great; unsure he'd want a reduced role...

Evans and Strief are done; Evans hasn't played all-out since he got paid; Strief is the model of overachiever since being a 7th round pick and a great teammate, but he's an old 7th round pick, and it's shown...

Browner just got on my wrong side with his preseason comment about wanting to return to the S'hawks; his play was awful and continued a pattern from his New England tenure where he was benched inactive for the post-season...

Why we signed Browner is one of the great mysteries...

halloween 65 · 01-10-2016, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Regardless of preferences to a 3-4 or a 4-3 scheme, not to mention the sub packages (nickel, dime), here's the thing...

We've posted this on multiple threads that we've drafted players that would seem to be better suited to a 3-4 base front...

After Payton made the declaration to move to a 3-4, and in the following draft we traded two picks to move up and select NT John Jenkins...

Stephone Anthony will be a fine Mike in either front, but could be more of a playmaker in a 3-4...

Hau'oli Kikaha would be a way better OLB in a 3-4 where he's focused more of rushing the passer, as is his strength, rather than in a 4-3 where he's dropping more into coverage...

Then we took another OLB in Davis Tull who's very much a clone of Kikaha...

Then there's the wasted talent on the bench of Kasim Edebali who's got five sacks in very limited play...

I'd rather just get a 3-4 defensive coordinator to see this thing through rather than change course mid-stream again and spend 2-3 seasons rebuilding for a 4-3...

It's just this rudderless zig-zaging that is the primary cause for our defense sucking balls...

Allen is obviously a much more organized, meticulous coach than Ryan was...

But we need a Defensive Coordinator who'll scheme with what we have rather than putting his system in and trying to fit square pegs into round holes...

If we go 3-4 I will agree that Anthony will be fine, hell I'll go as far a saying he becomes a stud in a 3-4, thats a stretch for me not wanting him in the draft but in a 4-3 I don't see it at all he has a long, long way to go in that scheme. Tull is still a ? mark but I do like his motor. Now Ediboli I think we have a very good OLB in a 3-4 . This draft is loaded with ILB and OLB that could help set the lb.'ers for years. I still slide Ellerbe on the inside with Anthony and Ediboli on the outside draft a OLB that can be a 3 down player and let Ellerbe groom a young thumper to compliment Anthony and fill in immediately if Ellerbe or Anthony go down. That gaping hole in the middle has plagued us for a long time and still hasn't been fixed year after year. I still draft a OG and a big run stuffing DE before anything else. I do agree about a SS also and totally agree about a 3-4 DC just as long as he can pick his staff.You made a great point about constantly flip flooping schemes, it usually if ever works quickly.

K Major · 01-10-2016, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

We've posted this on multiple threads that we've drafted players that would seem to be better suited to a 3-4 base front...

Hau'oli Kikaha would be a way better OLB in a 3-4 where he's focused more of rushing the passer, as is his strength, rather than in a 4-3 where he's dropping more into coverage...

If DA stays as DC, why not use Kikaha and Tull in similar fashion as Oakland uses Mack (SAM LB & a rush DE nickle/sub packages)?

blackangold · 01-09-2016, 08:23 PM

Allen has always run a 43.

If you look at what we ran when he took over it slowly moved to a 43. In fact during the last 5 games I can't recall a single 34 alignment.

Jordan is a great DE.
Davidson and Jenkins should sub out at 1 DT spot.
The other spots are wide open though.

Richardson is no better than a practice squad player and Williams won't come back for another year. We desperately need a starting DT and DE both can be had with good picks in the draft.

The Dude · 01-09-2016, 08:37 PM

Evans played well in spite of injury. I think he's good for one more year. I doubt Byrd and Browner will go anywhere. Too many other holes to start over at their position. Plus the cap implications would hurt. We get a pass rusher along side Evans and I have a feeling we will all have forgiven Browner by mid season.

brees84 · 01-10-2016, 07:39 AM

Broncos have two great MLBs who will be free agents. Trevathan and Marshall. They have to pay Von Miller so one of those guys will leave.
Huge upgrade if we sign one of those two.

01-09-2016, 08:01 PM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Harrison, I believe was a Restricted Free Agent last season; I really like him; Hagan and I went back and forth in our mancrush for him last season; problem you've got is you can't commit that much money to him when there's not that much too commit, especially when you've got this scheme contradiction between personnel and where Allen is putting his pieces on the board... Fairley is a great physical talent for sure, but there's just waaay too much baggage there for the Saints to touch... Brooks recently missed a game because of some GI issues; this is not something new for him; having personal history, I can say this could be something serious and I wouldn't want to commit that much money to a guard with those question marks... Ayers has been a fine player, but he's 30+ and we've got as good and younger already on the team...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

01-09-2016, 08:15 PM	#2
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency I don't understand gauging how players will fit on our defense if we run a 3-4 or a 4-3. We will spend 33.3% of our defensive snaps in our base defense. The other 66.6% of the time we'll have 4 down lineman and some combination of LB's and DB's. At this point, just assume that no matter what our base defense is we'll normally be playing with 4 down defensive lineman. Dennis Allen has never run a 3-4 defense so let's look for guys that will fit on a 4 man front.
	"When you get into one of these groups, there's only a couple of ways you can get out. One, is death; the other, is mental institutions."

01-09-2016, 10:14 PM	#3
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Dennis Allen has never run a 3-4 defense so let's look for guys that will fit on a 4 man front. Regardless of preferences to a 3-4 or a 4-3 scheme, not to mention the sub packages (nickel, dime), here's the thing... We've posted this on multiple threads that we've drafted players that would seem to be better suited to a 3-4 base front... After Payton made the declaration to move to a 3-4, and in the following draft we traded two picks to move up and select NT John Jenkins... Stephone Anthony will be a fine Mike in either front, but could be more of a playmaker in a 3-4... Hau'oli Kikaha would be a way better OLB in a 3-4 where he's focused more of rushing the passer, as is his strength, rather than in a 4-3 where he's dropping more into coverage... Then we took another OLB in Davis Tull who's very much a clone of Kikaha... Then there's the wasted talent on the bench of Kasim Edebali who's got five sacks in very limited play... I'd rather just get a 3-4 defensive coordinator to see this thing through rather than change course mid-stream again and spend 2-3 seasons rebuilding for a 4-3... It's just this rudderless zig-zaging that is the primary cause for our defense sucking balls... Allen is obviously a much more organized, meticulous coach than Ryan was... But we need a Defensive Coordinator who'll scheme with what we have rather than putting his system in and trying to fit square pegs into round holes... hagan714, \|Mitch\|, The Dude and 5 others like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 01-10-2016 at 05:41 AM..

01-10-2016, 12:16 AM	#4
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency We might as well stick with the 3-4 defense. I'd make serious runs at both Tamba Hali and Aldon Smith. Sign both of them. I'd move Ellerbe inside with Anthony. Kikiha would become a rotational player and learn from a veteran pass rusher like Hali. I'd also go after Kelvin Sheppard. Let Ellerbe be a rotational guy and conserve his health. With the upgrade at rushing the passer, the defense is set. We have to release Colston, Browner, Evans and Strief. I'd let a good majority of our free agents walk as well. Restructure Brees, and continue the youth movement.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

01-10-2016, 05:50 AM	#5
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Originally Posted by rezburna We might as well stick with the 3-4 defense. I'd make serious runs at both Tamba Hali and Aldon Smith. Sign both of them. I'd move Ellerbe inside with Anthony. Kikiha would become a rotational player and learn from a veteran pass rusher like Hali. I'd also go after Kelvin Sheppard. Let Ellerbe be a rotational guy and conserve his health. With the upgrade at rushing the passer, the defense is set. We have to release Colston, Browner, Evans and Strief. I'd let a good majority of our free agents walk as well. Restructure Brees, and continue the youth movement. Rez, believe we have the pieces needed at OLB if we scheme more 3-4... But we'd definitely need some help on the inside; I like Broncos' ILB Danny Trevathan to complement Anthony... Agree with the cuts; Colston is painful as he's been a class act and a warrior throughout, but his cap number is far too great; unsure he'd want a reduced role... Evans and Strief are done; Evans hasn't played all-out since he got paid; Strief is the model of overachiever since being a 7th round pick and a great teammate, but he's an old 7th round pick, and it's shown... Browner just got on my wrong side with his preseason comment about wanting to return to the S'hawks; his play was awful and continued a pattern from his New England tenure where he was benched inactive for the post-season... Why we signed Browner is one of the great mysteries... rezburna and brees84 like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 01-10-2016 at 06:27 AM..

01-10-2016, 08:40 AM	#6
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Originally Posted by jeanpierre Regardless of preferences to a 3-4 or a 4-3 scheme, not to mention the sub packages (nickel, dime), here's the thing... We've posted this on multiple threads that we've drafted players that would seem to be better suited to a 3-4 base front... After Payton made the declaration to move to a 3-4, and in the following draft we traded two picks to move up and select NT John Jenkins... Stephone Anthony will be a fine Mike in either front, but could be more of a playmaker in a 3-4... Hau'oli Kikaha would be a way better OLB in a 3-4 where he's focused more of rushing the passer, as is his strength, rather than in a 4-3 where he's dropping more into coverage... Then we took another OLB in Davis Tull who's very much a clone of Kikaha... Then there's the wasted talent on the bench of Kasim Edebali who's got five sacks in very limited play... I'd rather just get a 3-4 defensive coordinator to see this thing through rather than change course mid-stream again and spend 2-3 seasons rebuilding for a 4-3... It's just this rudderless zig-zaging that is the primary cause for our defense sucking balls... Allen is obviously a much more organized, meticulous coach than Ryan was... But we need a Defensive Coordinator who'll scheme with what we have rather than putting his system in and trying to fit square pegs into round holes... If we go 3-4 I will agree that Anthony will be fine, hell I'll go as far a saying he becomes a stud in a 3-4, thats a stretch for me not wanting him in the draft but in a 4-3 I don't see it at all he has a long, long way to go in that scheme. Tull is still a ? mark but I do like his motor. Now Ediboli I think we have a very good OLB in a 3-4 . This draft is loaded with ILB and OLB that could help set the lb.'ers for years. I still slide Ellerbe on the inside with Anthony and Ediboli on the outside draft a OLB that can be a 3 down player and let Ellerbe groom a young thumper to compliment Anthony and fill in immediately if Ellerbe or Anthony go down. That gaping hole in the middle has plagued us for a long time and still hasn't been fixed year after year. I still draft a OG and a big run stuffing DE before anything else. I do agree about a SS also and totally agree about a 3-4 DC just as long as he can pick his staff.You made a great point about constantly flip flooping schemes, it usually if ever works quickly.

01-10-2016, 10:22 AM	#7
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Originally Posted by jeanpierre We've posted this on multiple threads that we've drafted players that would seem to be better suited to a 3-4 base front... Hau'oli Kikaha would be a way better OLB in a 3-4 where he's focused more of rushing the passer, as is his strength, rather than in a 4-3 where he's dropping more into coverage... If DA stays as DC, why not use Kikaha and Tull in similar fashion as Oakland uses Mack (SAM LB & a rush DE nickle/sub packages)?

01-09-2016, 08:23 PM	#8
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Allen has always run a 43. If you look at what we ran when he took over it slowly moved to a 43. In fact during the last 5 games I can't recall a single 34 alignment. Jordan is a great DE. Davidson and Jenkins should sub out at 1 DT spot. The other spots are wide open though. Richardson is no better than a practice squad player and Williams won't come back for another year. We desperately need a starting DT and DE both can be had with good picks in the draft. MarchingOn and ctsaint01 like this.

01-09-2016, 08:37 PM	#9
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,064	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Evans played well in spite of injury. I think he's good for one more year. I doubt Byrd and Browner will go anywhere. Too many other holes to start over at their position. Plus the cap implications would hurt. We get a pass rusher along side Evans and I have a feeling we will all have forgiven Browner by mid season.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,064

01-10-2016, 07:39 AM	#10
brees84 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,015	Re: 2016 Saints Free Agency Broncos have two great MLBs who will be free agents. Trevathan and Marshall. They have to pay Von Miller so one of those guys will leave. Huge upgrade if we sign one of those two. MarchingOn and ctsaint01 like this.
brees84 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,015

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