All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

Can anyone think of the best way to move down for someone who might be a late 1st round sleeper at quaterback and maybe next year's Roethlesberger, Charlie Frye from Akron. His first game with a HUGE crowd, impressive. Showing at the combine, impressive. Scouts are saying he makes wise decisions in the pocket. He was a 64% passer through college and missed what? like 1 pass in the Senior bowl. We could move down in a trade for a disgruntled LB and kill two birds with one stone, but do 1 better by having an experienced MLB. Please any thoughts.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

Also had a 2:1 touchdown to interception ratio, with far inferior talent to work with.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

Welcome to the board Mighty12!

My only thought on this matter is this: under no circumstance should we trade up for Smith. If he is there at 16, then I think it depends on our FA and who is still there. I just don\'t see any reason to give something up for a QB at this point.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

but that is the beauty of it we don\'t lose anything.....We gain! We gain picks and a player.....and when you think of Akron you don\'t think \"Wow they had the best WR ever\" do you? Yet He had great numbers.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

i wouldnt trade up for smith with our many other concerns. if that guy is there and not a real strong o tackle take him. or if he cant be passed up then take him

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

We need to stay put. The latest rumors have Rodgers one to San Fran and Smith 2 to Miami.They only guy I would want us to move up for is Derrick Johnson, it\'s been a long time since we\'ve had an impact linebacker.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

We\'ll have to wait till the dust settles, Rodgers might regain the first pick, since the biggest charge against him was his height. Some questioned if he was even 6\'1\", but he measured at 6\'2\" at the combine, which is good for him. Ran a pretty good 40 time too, from what I remember, not that it matters. But he is a good athlete.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

it is improbable that either of the top 2 would drop to #16 but stranger things have happened. i think frye will be gone by #40. i am hoping wallter might last until then. he was rated above smith and rodgers at the start of last season. he has only dropped cuz of a shoulder injury. for a team not needing to insert him as starter immediately he is a gem imo.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

You get what you pay for.

Late round QBs that blossom into rookies of the year are not the rule, they\'re the exception. In fact, Roethlisberger was the ONLY QB ever to get the rookie of the year. So you can rest assured that we won\'t be getting a Roethlisberger.

If the front office is serious about progressing and not stagnating in the NFL, then I don\'t see how there\'s any way that you pass up on an Alex Smith or at least try to trade up to have the opportunity to. Chances are if we trade up we\'ll be in good position to pick either DJ or A. Smith. We stay put, and we\'re doing the same thing we\'ve always been doing.

Winners make moves....losers just say \"let\'s give it one more year\".

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I agree with you Tomb, but I am also leery of what we will have to give up to move up for Smith. If they were gonna let him start as a rookie, I would be all for it. But moving up to take someone who is gonna sit the pine? I don\'t think I can buy into that. Moving up for DJ yes. I am not gonna say whether it would be right or wrong to trade AB and then make a move for Smith, cause it will start a war. I am only saying IF we were to move up for Smith, we better be trading AB cause with all the problems we have elsewhere, it would be foolish to lose more picks to move up for a guy who isn\'t starting.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

Ah...treading carefully I see.... ;)

I know what you mean. Believe it or not I\'ve been a loyal visitor of this site for about 2 years now, so I\'ve seen all of the pro-AB and anti-AB posts, though I rarely post. I guess people thought it was time for a break. :D

I have my opinion on the matter. Though I don\'t think we should just dump AB, we should start with a legitimate contingency plan to enact in case he continues to plateau for a 5th straight year. I believe San Diego played their hand perfectly, and it\'s what we should do. Saying that we shouldn\'t draft a QB because AB is sensitive to criticism is the wrong answer. Competitors thrive in that situation(i.e. Drew Brees). If he would tank, then it would only further validate the belief that he doesn\'t have the intangibles to be the QB for us.

If I were AB...at some point I would ask myself....why am I not winning and putting up the numbers like a Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, Dante Culpepper, or even Michael Vick? Those guys mentioned above, espeicially Peyton Manning, have shown a personal commitment to improve their game, as opposed to pointing the finger to teammates as to the reason why they\'re not progressing.

The attitude comes first.....you show a winning attitude....it rubs off on others...THEN you win. You don\'t win the champtionship, then get the drive and winning attitude.

Unfortunately if AB hasn\'t gotten it by now, you have to wonder if anything here in NO can make him get it besides serious competition.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

You better believe it, I am burned out. :comp03: I am not anxious to get in one of those again.

I like your San Diego point, but San Diego had no idea Brees was gonna make the change, and they were ready to part with him after this year. Had Rivers NOT held out, he would have been the opening day starter. That situation was unique, and Brees definitely showed how much of a competitor he is. San Diego was also a team that was annual bottom dwellars, and have had numerous high picks recently. It had to come together sooner or later.

I am of the opinion for our team, if we are gonna keep Brooks, which they seem determined to do, we only need a solid back up and just hope he cuts out the mistakes. That\'s all we can do. Hope he matures and the light goes on. I know this is a lot of hoping, but it\'s all we can do for now. Drafting Smith that high, especially if we have to trade up, is not a wise move. If he is there when we draft, I am fine with it. But if we are making moves to get him, we better be moving AB for some defense or some solid offensive line or some other decent draft picks to put around him. I don\'t think AB is the type to perform better because of competition. I definitely don\'t see him being a mentor to the QB of the future. His attitude alone will ruin that dynamic. If there is one thing AB is not, it is humble, and I would be afraid he would hurt the dude\'s growth. Then we just wasted a high pick or more after trading up for a QB who won\'t have the proper support system around him to be a success.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

saintswhodi
After our debate over Brees, I say I have to finally agree with you... moving up to snag Smith is a mistake. Just don\'t see it happening with all the areas of need. Smith will not be there at 16 either. Drafting where we are is a good position maybe even sliding back to get a OL.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I agree with most of what you said. I feel that....AS or not, we should trade up. We need a difference maker, and there won\'t be one at pick 16. However if were to stay at 16 and not pick him, that would be idiotic, if just for the pure value of the pick. Trades can be made afterwards, but why pass AS up at 16????

Brooks has matured as much as he\'s going to. He\'s freakin 28. and halfway through his career. He should be peaking now, not emerging. When you see that a stock is not rising in value for some time now, you consider it fully valued and sell. Keeping it any longer is just waiting for the bubble to pop. The business of football is no different.

Can AB be a better quarterback than he is right now? I have no doubt. Will he....no, at least not here in NO?

He is entrenched as the starting QB....what willingness does he have to progress his game? I feel he will have a similar year, stats wise, in \'05. If our defense improves we can make the playoffs in a still weak NFC. But it won\'t be because AB matured.

So we can live with him being our quarterback and we can win, if our D improves. My point is...the D, along with everyone else, should strive to improve. And AB has shown that he doesn\'t feel a need to do that....nor has the front office indicated that he needs to.

We, being Saints fans, have to learn to adapt in constantly adverse situations, as evidenced by my post. ;)

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

We agree on AS but I have to disagree about moving up and snagging a difference maker. We have to many holes and we aren\'t getting any younger. We need talent overall, we can\'t match up with the Pats... they go after good talent across the board. You can get a quality player in the first 2 maybe 3 rounds if you are smart drafting and developing... I am not wanting to trade Howard but makes sense in the long run to get a 2nd for him, then possible trading other picks to move up also and getting a steal in the 4th.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

See that is a good idea in theory, but how long have you been following the New Orleans Saints? This is not a franchise known for it\'s mid and late-round scouting prowess. Other teams, who have highly talented scouts, can spot \"diamosds in the rough\". Most, if not all of the highly productive players on our team THAT WE DRAFTED were drafted in the first round. This team seems to go with the mentality of \"Let\'s listen to what Mel Kiper says for the first round, and we pick all of the others ourselves\". Our pick record from rounds 2 on back are atrocious, with the exception of Darren Howard.

It seems like the only thing this team can count on from the draft is the first pick, because the later rounds just haven\'t panned out over the past 10 years or so. I say the best strategy for the first round is to swing for the fences, but not in the overboard Ricky Willams way.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

A fine view.

I don\'t agree. Looking at most mocks, it looks like there may be difference makers at SS, DT, DE, and perhaps even A. Smith at 16. The only one we don\'t need is DE.

I\'m certainly not opposed to Smith. I just don\'t think I\'d trade Howard (or someone comparable) and our #16 to move up a handful of spots for Smith. I\'d rather trade down, if we\'re going to move. I don\'t think we can get up high enough to get Johnson, and after him, I don\'t see a playmaker that we NEED; we can get an available playmaker at 16 (though it may have to be BPA instead of a specific player) and not give up anything else.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

So in the Johnathan Sullivan kind of way?

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

Absolutely...at least that\'s the mentality that you need to have to make a difference in this league. They got burned because of poor talent evaluation. Personally I thought they were trading up to get Terrell Suggs. I didn\'t even know who Sully was. I had 4 DTs rated ahead of him(McDougle, Robertson, Joseph, Williams). Does that mean that we should go hide in a corner and refuse to take any more risks?? If we were to trade up to get DJ and he crashed and burned, I don\'t think anyone would attribute it to bad talent evaluation.


I think I phrased what I meant wrong. Personally I think DJ is a can\'t-miss prospect, and that\'s what we need. There are no can\'t miss prospects at 16. If we give up Howard(who we\'re not keeping anyway) and a 3rd, then I say you pull the trigger and snag DJ. SINCE DJ MIGHT NOT BE THERE ANYWAY....looking at AS if he is there wouldn\'t be out of the question.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

That makes sense GT. A can\'t miss player is different from a difference maker player.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

Euph, we agree on something. I can\'t recall if we have agreed much previously, but for some reason I feel like celebrating the fact. :patos: If Smith is there at 16, we have to take him. Have to. I don\'t see how we have a choice. The error is in moving up for him though. The other thing may be if Smith is there, maybe a team behind us will wanna move up and get him, giving us more picks. Baltimore did it for Boller and buffalo did it last year for Losman. That\'s another possibility. I have read too much about us possibly trading up with the Titans, and I don\'t believe it is for Smith. If DJ is there, we will prob make a run at him there. But I ONLY agree with moving up for Smith if we are trading AB for something also. I can not see how it would work to have both of them here. But we can use whatever we gain from getting AB to put around Smith to help him, whether it be picks or a player. I still have a hard time believing Denny Green wouldn\'t want AB if he doesn\'t draft a QB early. High second for AB? Also Euph, you are gonna have to enlighten me on the Brees debate. I have forgotten what that one was about.

Tomb, I dig what you are saying. I agree with trading up, just not for Smith. For DJ or even PacMan, but not for Smith. All those AB arguments you have, I have made them. Believe me. I know where you are coming from. But with AB still on the team, it is not a good move to get Smith, or at least to move up for him. I just can\'t see it working like a San Diego. Brees had no delusions he was a great QB, he just worked his butt off and made himself indispensible. He is also only 25. I don\'t think we will get the same from AB. The very least is you can expect an article to pop up about how unappreciated he is cause we drafted a QB of the future. No thank you.

I also agree with you on your point to JTS. Just cause this team BLEW the Sully pick, does not mean it is a bad idea to move up for a player. They just reached horribly for Sully. Kiper was shocked at the pick, I can still see his face. Sully woulda been there at 17. That move was bad on scouting and evaluation\'s end. If we had taken Kevin Williams, we would be more than satisfied. Or even Trufant. They just blew it. I don\'t expect that to happen again were we to move up.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I\'ll join the \"don\'t want to trade up for Smith\" crowd. I\'m not conviced there\'s a great future QB in this year\'s class. I\'m no more impressed with Alex Smith than I was with Akili Smith a few years ago ... and we all know how that turned out (look for him in NFL Europe this year).

But since we\'re on QB\'s, anybody know why Jason Campbell refused to work out? I know some folks on here were interested in him, but I don\'t think he helped his case by thumbing his nose at the combine.

As for trading up/down in the draft, barring a move for Derrick Johnson (which would likely be more costly than it\'s worth), the only way I\'d like to see us move is DOWN. One nice thing about this year\'s class is that it\'s pretty evenly matched, especially in players who\'ll be taken in rounds 3-5. Nothing wrong with trying to snag a few more draft picks. After all, the more picks we\'ve got, the more likely we\'ll actually score with one!

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

he has a gut..so i\'m guessing he went out partying once the season was over instead of getting in shape.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

like the ricky williams move?

;)

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

UGh... let me chime in here again...

Don\'t belive Mocks! OPINIONS - based on needs... its all malarky. Everyone has a mock, everyone thinks they know whats going to happen. Its to crazy and a waste of time really. I know even I can get wrapped up in it all but I do come down to reality from it all.
AS will not be there at 16, top 10 he will be gone. Don\'t believe the hype. Don\'t see up picking up a QB at all in this draft. If anyone as seen QB Kingsbury? Keep an eye on him, seen him and seems to be coming along.
The other point I\'d like to make again is that you aren\'t going to find the ONE difference maker to win us championships. We need to develop and get a host of talent in, we have to many holes, sure lets get one \'difference maker\' and pay him a butt load and not win anything, then have to trade him away in a few years. Pick best talent available 16... alex Barron maybe there. I am all for trading down and snagging extra pics brining in more young talent and developing them.

Yeah I think we should trade a few players and pics and move up to draft Sullivan... didn\'t we do that already.






[Edited on 2/3/2005 by Euphoria]

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

WHOA...championships!? Who said anything about championships?! The Saints have to crawl before they can walk. I don\'t think you\'re listening to what I\'m saying. History shows that scouting is not this regime\'s strong suit. Trading down would just give them more picks to botch up, as they never pick the best player available in the later rounds. I have never remembered the Saints being CLOSE to having the best draft class out of the NFL. I\'m not saying for us to put all of our eggs in one basket. I don\'t know if there has ever been one person in the history of the NFL that can bring a team to a championship. However, I am not of the mentality of \"Let\'s get 20 draft picks and see how many pan out\".

For the Saints, a bird in the hand is worth much more than 2 in the bush. If they have the opportunity to trade up to get DJ, it\'s a no brainer to pull the trigger on the deal, rather than take a bigger chance on someone who will be at 16. If we pulled the trade, most likely we\'d only lose Howard(who we aren\'t keeping anyway) and a 3rd, which they will mess up anyway.

Not being a pessimist, just what 20 years of following the Saints has shown me. ;)

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

ahhh but your not listening to yourself... Didn\'t the Saints trade up recently and that hasn\'t panned out either. If DJ turns out to be a bust also... yes we all will sit here and critizise DJ and the Saints for pulling the trigger on that deal also... its what we do. SO no matter what they do they are damned if they do or damned if they don\'t right.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I KNOW you aren\'t comparing J. Sully to Derrick Johnson....there\'s no comparison.

Derrick Johnson is the top rated LB in this draft...probably the past 3 or 4 drafts. J. Sully was rated the 5th, 6th, and in some cases as low as the 7th best DT in the draft of \'03. Would the F.O. face criticism if they traded for DJ and he busted, no doubt, but no where near as much flak as they got for drafting that waste of human flesh Sully. I\'m sure DJ is regarded as much more of a sure thing than Sully was.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

If we traded up and got DJ I doubt there will be near as much criticism as there was for Sully, for the exact points you listed GT. Sully was nowhere near the top rated DT in the draft we got him in, while DJ is considered the best LB to come into the draft in a few years. There is no comparison. And LB is def a position of high need for our team. No doubt the Saints would get high marks for making a move like that, it is not even close to the Sully fiasco. If DJ bombed, then pretty much anyone in the NFL would have egg on their face and not just the Saints cause I have yet to hear anyone knock this kid. He is the best overall player in the draft.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

the problem with the sully trade was we traded 2..count em 2 picks for a guy who would\'ve been there when we picked and wasn\'t our biggest need.

johnson would be one of hte top three players in the draft.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

GT: YOu use the fact that they can\'t make good selections... yet you are willing to move up and get a difference maker... they proved they couldn\'t do that either...

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I heard Vic Carucci on WWL Monday night and he made a comment about the 49ers trade-down dilemma that has me thinking we stay put at 16. He said scouts are telling him there\'s not a whole lot of difference between 1 through 20 in this draft. Trading away No.1 may be difficult since there are no Eli\'s or Gallery\'s in this draft.
I say we stay put. Looking at most mocks it appears outside of Derrick Johnson, the rest of the defensive players all look about even. A quality player will be there at 16. I just hope the BPA at 16 isn\'t a stinkin DE.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

Hence, the talk of moving up for Derrick Johnson. ;)

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I agree staying put is safe bet here... trading back isn\'t a bad idea either... there isn\'t the top notch -difference makers- in this draft.

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I think it would cost too much for us to do it. And Loomis is probably a bit gunshy after 2003.

I say leave the trade-ups to the pro\'s. Lets stay put and see who slips. We seem to do quite well with that strategy.

And there are those that think DJ may last to mid-1st round. (I\'m not one of them).

All this talk about moving up for Alex Smith
 

I agree with that.

Now that\'s funny. I agree with that too though. Just explaining why the talk was there for doing it.