Saints-Chiefs Test

LKelley67 · 03-02-2005, 10:59 AM

the teams are close in cap space. listen to this vermeil line-

ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚â€œWe're planning on being aggressive,ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬? coach Dick Vermeil said. ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚â€œWe're not going to be ridiculous about it. But we'll be aggressive.

ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚â€œWe would like to be able to come up with a cornerback, a linebacker and a safety who can add competition and upgrade those positions, force the players we have to get better and improve the performance on game day. There are a lot of guys out there, but you can't afford them all. There are no guarantees we'll get any of them.ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬?

sound familiar? let's see which front office gets it done.

why is it the wish list in the kansas city star looks different than NOLA?

A look at some of the players on the Chiefs' free-agent wish list:

CORNERBACKS
Player, Team Age Ht. Wt.
Ken Lucas, Seattle 26 6-0 205
Tied for NFC interception lead in 2004 with six
Samari Rolle, Tennessee* 28 6-0 175
Favorite of Gunther Cunningham's from time with Titans; 2000 Pro Bowler
Fred Smoot, Washington 25 5-11 174
Up-and-coming player whose best seasons should be ahead
Patrick Surtain, Miami** 28 5-11 192
Versatile player can cover in variety of ways; Pro Bowler in 2002-03
LINEBACKERS
Player, Team Age Ht Wt.
Kendrell Bell, Pittsburgh 26 6-1 257
Could play middle or outside; played only three games last season because of injury
Ian Gold, Tampa Bay 26 6-0 223
Undersized, but his speed and athletic ability make up for that
Ed Hartwell, Baltimore 26 6-1 250
In Ray Lewis' shadow, but a solid player ready to make name for himself
Jeremiah Trotter, Philadelphia 28 6-1 262
One of NFL's premier run defenders

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/11025694.htm

baronm · 03-02-2005, 11:01 AM

difference is that the cheifs are the media darlings and have a very good offense.

GoldenTomb · 03-02-2005, 11:04 AM

difference is that the cheifs are the media darlings and have a very good offense.

Well if our front office wasn\'t so freakin inept the Saints could be the media darlings and have a very good offense.

Remember all the hype in Oct. 2002??? It is possible for the Saints to be popular.

baronm · 03-02-2005, 11:06 AM

true

BreesFN9 · 03-02-2005, 11:14 AM

I go back to an earlier post where someone mentioned N.O being a tough place to draw players to. I can\'t remember who but when U have your QB, the leader of the team, Reportedly fighting with one of your top D men? Your owner fighting with the coach and then Calling his team a bunch of high schooler\'s? Then there is the uncertainty of the Organinzation itself. That\'s a lot of concerns to have up front when your a free agent looking for a contract? Other cities might look a little better to you when all this comes to light.

dberce1 · 03-02-2005, 12:35 PM

I go back to an earlier post where someone mentioned N.O being a tough place to draw players to. I can\'t remember who but when U have your QB, the leader of the team, Reportedly fighting with one of your top D men? Your owner fighting with the coach and then Calling his team a bunch of high schooler\'s? Then there is the uncertainty of the Organinzation itself. That\'s a lot of concerns to have up front when your a free agent looking for a contract? Other cities might look a little better to you when all this comes to light.

All good in theory, but none the less wrong. Only one saying applies here:

\"Money talks, and bull**** walks.\"

BreesFN9 · 03-02-2005, 12:42 PM

Didn\'t the Saints have the leagues highest payroll last year??
Still people were\'nt happy? I agree though with money being the bottom line.....Hence NO Hockey season!!!

GoldenTomb · 03-02-2005, 12:42 PM

I go back to an earlier post where someone mentioned N.O being a tough place to draw players to. I can\'t remember who but when U have your QB, the leader of the team, Reportedly fighting with one of your top D men? Your owner fighting with the coach and then Calling his team a bunch of high schooler\'s? Then there is the uncertainty of the Organinzation itself. That\'s a lot of concerns to have up front when your a free agent looking for a contract? Other cities might look a little better to you when all this comes to light.

All good in theory, but none the less wrong. Only one saying applies here:

\"Money talks, and bull**** walks.\"

True most of the time in the NFL. Players will follow the money most of the time. However when NO offers a player the same contract as say, New England does, then other things come into play. NO would generally have to pay more to attract a player than other teams would. The front office knows this and isn\'t willing to do so, leaving them to sift through the trash heap of the NFL looking for underappreciated garbage. They never go after players that involve a bidding war.

BreesFN9 · 03-02-2005, 12:53 PM

[quote:b6e02bc609]
\"True most of the time in the NFL. Players will follow the money most of the time. However when NO offers a player the same contract as say, New England does, then other things come into play. NO would generally have to pay more to attract a player than other teams would. The front office knows this and isn\'t willing to do so, leaving them to sift through the trash heap of the NFL looking for underappreciated garbage. They never go after players that involve a bidding war.\"

That was the point I was trying to emphasize, thanks for the 2nd on that one! When it comes down to it and you have the same offers with choices, NO might be the first one off the list for those reasons. NO needs a better REP as a franchise. Listeneing to other announcers on TV without watching the Saints you get the idea that the announcers on FOX etc treat The Saints as a joke....I\'m not saying it at all, Just emphasizing what others might perceive.

WhoDat · 03-02-2005, 03:29 PM

Let\'s not confuse the payroll and the cap. A team\'s payroll cannot exceed the cap. That\'s kind of the point. Just b/c the Saints had the highest payroll does not, necessarily, mean they spent the most money - it just means that they managed their cap number well.

Let me see if I can explain in a simplistic way just to make sure that we\'re all (including me) clear.

Let\'s say the cap is $86.5 million (it\'s something like that). Now, assume that you signed a QB a few years back and gave him a $10 million signing bonus. He doesn\'t necessarily get that $10 mill when he signs. The $$ is his, guaranteed, but the team could pay him $2 million a year for 5 years to spread the \"cap hit\". Thus, this year, if you\'re paying him $2 million on an old $10 million bonus, then your available cap number drops by $2 million to $84.5 mil. I don\'t believe that payments and cap accruals necessarily have to coincide either.

For example, you could signing a RB this season and pay him a $10 million signing bonus over 5 years but take the full cap hit of the bonus now. In other words, even though you pay him $2 mill a year, your cap THIS season and THIS season only takes the $10 million hit - now you\'d be down to $74.5 mil.

It wold make sense, to me, that the Saints have a high payroll number. Why? B/c they have had a great cap situation for 3 years (i.e. more room available under the cap than most teams) and they sign players that don\'t demand large bonuses. So what you pay is what you pay. Theoretically, the more stars you have on a team, the higher your cap figure and somewhat lower your payroll number wil be, b/c the money for them gets dumped in bonuses, not salary. Stars can demand big bonuses ($$ they are assured to get), whereas Orlando Ruff demands little more than a bus ticket.

03-02-2005, 10:59 AM	#1
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Saints-Chiefs Test the teams are close in cap space. listen to this vermeil line- ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚â€œWe're planning on being aggressive,ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬? coach Dick Vermeil said. ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚â€œWe're not going to be ridiculous about it. But we'll be aggressive. ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚â€œWe would like to be able to come up with a cornerback, a linebacker and a safety who can add competition and upgrade those positions, force the players we have to get better and improve the performance on game day. There are a lot of guys out there, but you can't afford them all. There are no guarantees we'll get any of them.ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â€šÃ‚Â¬? sound familiar? let's see which front office gets it done. why is it the wish list in the kansas city star looks different than NOLA? A look at some of the players on the Chiefs' free-agent wish list: CORNERBACKS Player, Team Age Ht. Wt. Ken Lucas, Seattle 26 6-0 205 Tied for NFC interception lead in 2004 with six Samari Rolle, Tennessee* 28 6-0 175 Favorite of Gunther Cunningham's from time with Titans; 2000 Pro Bowler Fred Smoot, Washington 25 5-11 174 Up-and-coming player whose best seasons should be ahead Patrick Surtain, Miami** 28 5-11 192 Versatile player can cover in variety of ways; Pro Bowler in 2002-03 LINEBACKERS Player, Team Age Ht Wt. Kendrell Bell, Pittsburgh 26 6-1 257 Could play middle or outside; played only three games last season because of injury Ian Gold, Tampa Bay 26 6-0 223 Undersized, but his speed and athletic ability make up for that Ed Hartwell, Baltimore 26 6-1 250 In Ray Lewis' shadow, but a solid player ready to make name for himself Jeremiah Trotter, Philadelphia 28 6-1 262 One of NFL's premier run defenders http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/11025694.htm

03-02-2005, 11:01 AM	#2
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Saints-Chiefs Test difference is that the cheifs are the media darlings and have a very good offense.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

03-02-2005, 11:04 AM	#3
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Saints-Chiefs Test difference is that the cheifs are the media darlings and have a very good offense. Well if our front office wasn\'t so freakin inept the Saints could be the media darlings and have a very good offense. Remember all the hype in Oct. 2002??? It is possible for the Saints to be popular.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

03-02-2005, 11:06 AM	#4
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Saints-Chiefs Test true
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

03-02-2005, 11:14 AM	#5
BreesFN9 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 596	Saints-Chiefs Test I go back to an earlier post where someone mentioned N.O being a tough place to draw players to. I can\'t remember who but when U have your QB, the leader of the team, Reportedly fighting with one of your top D men? Your owner fighting with the coach and then Calling his team a bunch of high schooler\'s? Then there is the uncertainty of the Organinzation itself. That\'s a lot of concerns to have up front when your a free agent looking for a contract? Other cities might look a little better to you when all this comes to light.
	JENGA....I Win!

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03-02-2005, 12:35 PM	#6
dberce1 Chuck Liddells Right Hand Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Prairieville, Louisiana Posts: 1,227	Saints-Chiefs Test I go back to an earlier post where someone mentioned N.O being a tough place to draw players to. I can\'t remember who but when U have your QB, the leader of the team, Reportedly fighting with one of your top D men? Your owner fighting with the coach and then Calling his team a bunch of high schooler\'s? Then there is the uncertainty of the Organinzation itself. That\'s a lot of concerns to have up front when your a free agent looking for a contract? Other cities might look a little better to you when all this comes to light. All good in theory, but none the less wrong. Only one saying applies here: \"Money talks, and bull**** walks.\"

03-02-2005, 12:42 PM	#7
BreesFN9 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 596	Saints-Chiefs Test Didn\'t the Saints have the leagues highest payroll last year?? Still people were\'nt happy? I agree though with money being the bottom line.....Hence NO Hockey season!!!

03-02-2005, 12:53 PM	#9
BreesFN9 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 596	Saints-Chiefs Test [quote:b6e02bc609] \"True most of the time in the NFL. Players will follow the money most of the time. However when NO offers a player the same contract as say, New England does, then other things come into play. NO would generally have to pay more to attract a player than other teams would. The front office knows this and isn\'t willing to do so, leaving them to sift through the trash heap of the NFL looking for underappreciated garbage. They never go after players that involve a bidding war.\" That was the point I was trying to emphasize, thanks for the 2nd on that one! When it comes down to it and you have the same offers with choices, NO might be the first one off the list for those reasons. NO needs a better REP as a franchise. Listeneing to other announcers on TV without watching the Saints you get the idea that the announcers on FOX etc treat The Saints as a joke....I\'m not saying it at all, Just emphasizing what others might perceive.
	JENGA....I Win!

03-02-2005, 03:29 PM	#10
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints-Chiefs Test Let\'s not confuse the payroll and the cap. A team\'s payroll cannot exceed the cap. That\'s kind of the point. Just b/c the Saints had the highest payroll does not, necessarily, mean they spent the most money - it just means that they managed their cap number well. Let me see if I can explain in a simplistic way just to make sure that we\'re all (including me) clear. Let\'s say the cap is $86.5 million (it\'s something like that). Now, assume that you signed a QB a few years back and gave him a $10 million signing bonus. He doesn\'t necessarily get that $10 mill when he signs. The $$ is his, guaranteed, but the team could pay him $2 million a year for 5 years to spread the \"cap hit\". Thus, this year, if you\'re paying him $2 million on an old $10 million bonus, then your available cap number drops by $2 million to $84.5 mil. I don\'t believe that payments and cap accruals necessarily have to coincide either. For example, you could signing a RB this season and pay him a $10 million signing bonus over 5 years but take the full cap hit of the bonus now. In other words, even though you pay him $2 mill a year, your cap THIS season and THIS season only takes the $10 million hit - now you\'d be down to $74.5 mil. It wold make sense, to me, that the Saints have a high payroll number. Why? B/c they have had a great cap situation for 3 years (i.e. more room available under the cap than most teams) and they sign players that don\'t demand large bonuses. So what you pay is what you pay. Theoretically, the more stars you have on a team, the higher your cap figure and somewhat lower your payroll number wil be, b/c the money for them gets dumped in bonuses, not salary. Stars can demand big bonuses ($$ they are assured to get), whereas Orlando Ruff demands little more than a bus ticket.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â„¢s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â„¢ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"