2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread

04-29-2016, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Here's my problem with banking on this analysis re: Rankins and his Senior Bowl performance...

Defensive players as rookies are usually ahead of offensive players at that stage and many of those offensive linemen won't make NFL rosters...

Secondly, he looked great against the top seniors (not the underclassmen) and that was in one-on-one drills...

Third, Size, specifically Wingspan; he's only 6'1" and has average length arms; a 6'2" center or 6'4" guard is not going to have 1" or 3" more wingspan, it'll be way more, like 6" to 8", exponentially, and that means he'll get jammed up before he can get into an experience NFL offensive linemen...

Fourth, this reeks of Sedrick Ellis 2.0; and this low-man bullshinki wins, well I can tell you, when you got big guards (like we had with Evans and Nicks) and they're basically coached, they'll roll that lil' linemen up and out all-day; and I played football, when I sprouted before everyone to 6'2", it was helluva lot EASIER PUSHING DOWN on guys than when some of them passed me and it was HARDER TO PUSH UP on 6'4" to 6'5"' so shove that low man wins crap, staying in a poised, crouch position is one thing, getting your head shoved down your arse gets tiring...fast...

Fourth, Reggie Bush factor; just as Bush was All-World in NCAA because of his speed, in the NFL there were linemen just as fast and he had nothing else; Rankins will face men each week, even on bad teams, who can fold him up and push him out...

My biggest issue is this see-saw BS back and forth in personnel philosophy...

We were just a couple of pieces from completing the publicly declared 3-4 front and now we're going back to a 4-3; it's this lack of continuity of that is maddening; personally, 3-4 or 4-3 just get it done, without a USSR five year plan...

Wanna be wrong, so wanna be wrong, but I've seen this before...

...the monkey never learns...

This is my fear, hope to be wrong too, but here is the ellis write up, do you guys find a lot of similarities?

ANALYSIS
Positives: Has a shorter than ideal frame and lacks great bulk for a two-gap system, but is very effective playing the three-technique … Has good bone structure and while he might be at maximum growth potential he has thick thighs and calves and long arms with good muscle tone … Runs with a normal stride and shows the ability to quickly accelerate off the snap … Demonstrates the foot quickness, balance and agility to make plays on the move, showing above average change of direction agility and valid speed to pursue long distances … Possesses very good body control on the move and has the speed to make plays on the far side of the field … Adequate student in the class room, but does a good job taking plays from the chalkboard to the playing field … Has valid instincts to locate the ball and plays with good alertness (very aware of blocking schemes) … His suddenness and aggressiveness off the snap will generally surprise a lethargic blocker … Likes to train and does everything the coaches ask … Will play through pain and does so with good intensity … Locates the ball and reacts to pressure quickly, doing a nice job of adjusting to the action on the move … Has the sudden burst to gain advantage off the snap and with his keen feel for the snap cadence, he is not the type than can be fooled and drawn off side … Is a disruptive sort who can explode into an offensive lineman when he keeps his pad level down … Has the strength to create a new line of scrimmage vs. the running game, and when he generates good hand placement he can hold ground at the point of attack and win one-on-one battles (will struggle when his base narrows or his hands are outside the framework) … Shows the foot quickness and the lateral quickness to redirect and accelerate to the ball … Has the ability to disengage from blocks with his strength and quickness … Uses his hands, along with quickness and leverage, to redirect and is very good in attempts to stack (when he sinks his weight he can split the double-teams) … Has the valid upper body strength to separate, disengage and shed … Will usually play low with leverage … Reacts to pressure with good body control and is quick to recover when he out-runs the play … Has a variety of counter moves and uses his hands with good effectiveness to shed … Has the ability to grab and rip, whether as a pass rusher or vs. run blockers … Shows good agility in pursuit, accelerating quickly to the ball … More of a hit-and-wrap tackler, as he has the strength to take down the ballcarrier and will generally stay in control while on the move, especially when shooting the gaps … Shows good explosion and strike ability behind his wrap tackles … Burst to close, but is more relentless than sudden in long pursuit … Does a very nice job of getting under the ballcarrier, as he is quick to uncoil … Shows good strength in his bull rush, using his hands well … Alert to the location of the ball when rushing the quarterback and has the strong, quick hands to control and shed blockers with authority … Shows intensity and desire to get the ball in space, closing on the passer with good acceleration … Can defeat pass schemes on the way to the quarterback, demonstrating that solid extra burst to close on the QB with good surge, desire and second effort.

Negatives: Lacks the ideal size you look for in a two-gap defender and might be a better fit to play under-tackle at the next level, which will limit the teams that will put a high priority on his services (teams like Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, Philadelphia and the New York Jets play the system best suited for Ellis) … Has good upper body power, but he fails to anchor strongly vs. plays directed right at him … Needs to maintain a lower pad level (showed marked improvement here in 2007), as when he gets too tall in his stance he narrows his base, which allows the physical blockers to push him off the snap … Better tackler on the move than in tight areas, but he does show good angle concept when closing on the ball … Has had some leg injuries (left ankle fracture in 2003, right knee torn cartilage in 2006) that robbed him of some of the explosiveness he showed as a prep player … Has a compact frame, but he can't add any more bulk without having it impact his overall quickness … Field smart player, but his adequate academics might indicate he would need time to digest a complicated playbook.

Compares To: LA'ROI GLOVER-St. Louis … Ellis is a little bit bigger and heavier than Glover, but not by much. Ellis probably could not carry the bulk to play a classic two-gap, but as an under-tackle he could be a clone of what Glover has done. Both rely on their quickness and ability to neutralize double teams. Both take good angles in pursuit and are move oriented types who get better penetration on the slant rather than with a blocker right over their heads. Ellis is quick to locate the ball in a crowd and uses his hands and quickness to leverage and redirect. Shooting the gaps is a specialty for him, but he is also equally effective as a wrap-up tackler. With his lateral agility and quickness, he will make a nice living creating a new line of scrimmage vs. the running game at the next level.

Sedrick Ellis, Southern California, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

hagan714 · 04-29-2016, 07:21 AM

well we will see in four years. fifth is an option.

classic redraft is in 5 years anyways.

Just because an NFL team passes on a player and they fall out of a round does not mean the NFL is right. in a good draft the NFL gets it right 50% of the time and even that is extremely rare. couple of times tops. so it is safe to say 16 of those picks were not the right players. I am betting a .333 draft for the NFL brain trusts this year

jeanpierre · 04-29-2016, 07:46 AM

When I look at this draft, I look from when we picked and when Treadwell was taken and only two teams looked like they knew what they were doing (Colts and Vikings)

Saints (12) Sheldon Rankins, Louisville Sedrick Ellis 2.0

Dolphins (13) Laremy Tunsil, Ole Miss So you fire a GM, run off Incognito over questionable character for Tanked Boy?

Raiders (14) Karl Joseph, West Virginia Actually a really good pick, but could have added Treadwell opposite Amari Cooper, ouch...

Browns (15) Corey Coleman, Baylor Traded back, back and this is what you opened with?

Lions (16) OT Taylor Decker, Ohio State A reach pick for a necessity to protect your QB, but now who's your QB gonna throw to with no CJ?

Falcons (17) Keanu Neal, Florida Give Quinn credit for following a blue print and sticking to it, but he reached as Neal even with him off the board at the top of the second round...

Colts (18) Ryan Kelly, Alabama Great Selection, Luck is still recovering from his injuries from the beating he took last season, they should draft all offensive line and worry about winning football games next draft...

Bills (19) DE Shaq Lawson, Clemson Didn't like Lawson after the drama behind his injury prior to the Bama game; he only started one year once the other kids left and then they announce to the league he'll have sholder surgery after his rookie season?!? Ryans continue to shoot themselves in the foot...

Jets (20) OLB Darron Lee, Ohio State He may turn out to be the next Thomas Davis; yeah, okay...

Texans (21) Will Fuller, Notre Dame I can hear my cousins over in Houston now - but JP, he looked so good in college playing Navy...

Redskins (22) WR Josh Doctson, TCU He'll probably have his best games for the Redskins ( yes, I said Redskins; Redskins; got Cherokee and, surprise, I'm not f**king offended); as saying, best games probably against the Saints, but never a week in, week out performer...

Vikings (23) WR Laquon Treadwell, Ole Miss He'll make Bridgewater look better than what he is and make us regret not taking him; but do you really see better before him on this list? Sorry, just don't see it...

jeanpierre · 04-29-2016, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Best Picks of the First Round:

No. 5 JAX - DB Jalen Ramsey
No. 7 SF - DE Deforest Buckner
No.18 IND - C Ryan Kelly
No. 23 MIN - WR Laquon Treadwell

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83

agreed, Ramsey at 5 is insane I really can't believe that SD passed on him

San Diego really needed to replace Weddle at Safety...

hagan714 · 04-29-2016, 09:11 AM

with some surprise picks in the secondary I am looking for the trend to continue.

CheramieIII · 04-29-2016, 09:13 AM

I give us an A- for the first round but now rounds 2 and 3 will be even better. We need starting DE or Safety. OG, OT and WR coming tomorrow boys and girls.

SmashMouth · 04-29-2016, 10:59 AM

Dennis Allen speaks

SmashMouth · 04-29-2016, 11:05 AM

Sean Payton recaps the first round of the 2016 NFL Draft

spkb25 · 04-29-2016, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Dennis Allen speaks

man, we are going to be a different type of d this year. God, dude I went back and watched the first half of the vikes nfc champ game, damn I miss that D. Man we would blitz and bring the pressure. I am interested in seeing what DA brings, but I feel like it is going to be much better

SmashMouth · 04-29-2016, 06:46 PM

04-29-2016, 06:25 AM	#291
Threaded by spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by jeanpierre Here's my problem with banking on this analysis re: Rankins and his Senior Bowl performance... Defensive players as rookies are usually ahead of offensive players at that stage and many of those offensive linemen won't make NFL rosters... Secondly, he looked great against the top seniors (not the underclassmen) and that was in one-on-one drills... Third, Size, specifically Wingspan; he's only 6'1" and has average length arms; a 6'2" center or 6'4" guard is not going to have 1" or 3" more wingspan, it'll be way more, like 6" to 8", exponentially, and that means he'll get jammed up before he can get into an experience NFL offensive linemen... Fourth, this reeks of Sedrick Ellis 2.0; and this low-man bullshinki wins, well I can tell you, when you got big guards (like we had with Evans and Nicks) and they're basically coached, they'll roll that lil' linemen up and out all-day; and I played football, when I sprouted before everyone to 6'2", it was helluva lot EASIER PUSHING DOWN on guys than when some of them passed me and it was HARDER TO PUSH UP on 6'4" to 6'5"' so shove that low man wins crap, staying in a poised, crouch position is one thing, getting your head shoved down your arse gets tiring...fast... Fourth, Reggie Bush factor; just as Bush was All-World in NCAA because of his speed, in the NFL there were linemen just as fast and he had nothing else; Rankins will face men each week, even on bad teams, who can fold him up and push him out... My biggest issue is this see-saw BS back and forth in personnel philosophy... We were just a couple of pieces from completing the publicly declared 3-4 front and now we're going back to a 4-3; it's this lack of continuity of that is maddening; personally, 3-4 or 4-3 just get it done, without a USSR five year plan... Wanna be wrong, so wanna be wrong, but I've seen this before... ...the monkey never learns... This is my fear, hope to be wrong too, but here is the ellis write up, do you guys find a lot of similarities? ANALYSIS Positives: Has a shorter than ideal frame and lacks great bulk for a two-gap system, but is very effective playing the three-technique … Has good bone structure and while he might be at maximum growth potential he has thick thighs and calves and long arms with good muscle tone … Runs with a normal stride and shows the ability to quickly accelerate off the snap … Demonstrates the foot quickness, balance and agility to make plays on the move, showing above average change of direction agility and valid speed to pursue long distances … Possesses very good body control on the move and has the speed to make plays on the far side of the field … Adequate student in the class room, but does a good job taking plays from the chalkboard to the playing field … Has valid instincts to locate the ball and plays with good alertness (very aware of blocking schemes) … His suddenness and aggressiveness off the snap will generally surprise a lethargic blocker … Likes to train and does everything the coaches ask … Will play through pain and does so with good intensity … Locates the ball and reacts to pressure quickly, doing a nice job of adjusting to the action on the move … Has the sudden burst to gain advantage off the snap and with his keen feel for the snap cadence, he is not the type than can be fooled and drawn off side … Is a disruptive sort who can explode into an offensive lineman when he keeps his pad level down … Has the strength to create a new line of scrimmage vs. the running game, and when he generates good hand placement he can hold ground at the point of attack and win one-on-one battles (will struggle when his base narrows or his hands are outside the framework) … Shows the foot quickness and the lateral quickness to redirect and accelerate to the ball … Has the ability to disengage from blocks with his strength and quickness … Uses his hands, along with quickness and leverage, to redirect and is very good in attempts to stack (when he sinks his weight he can split the double-teams) … Has the valid upper body strength to separate, disengage and shed … Will usually play low with leverage … Reacts to pressure with good body control and is quick to recover when he out-runs the play … Has a variety of counter moves and uses his hands with good effectiveness to shed … Has the ability to grab and rip, whether as a pass rusher or vs. run blockers … Shows good agility in pursuit, accelerating quickly to the ball … More of a hit-and-wrap tackler, as he has the strength to take down the ballcarrier and will generally stay in control while on the move, especially when shooting the gaps … Shows good explosion and strike ability behind his wrap tackles … Burst to close, but is more relentless than sudden in long pursuit … Does a very nice job of getting under the ballcarrier, as he is quick to uncoil … Shows good strength in his bull rush, using his hands well … Alert to the location of the ball when rushing the quarterback and has the strong, quick hands to control and shed blockers with authority … Shows intensity and desire to get the ball in space, closing on the passer with good acceleration … Can defeat pass schemes on the way to the quarterback, demonstrating that solid extra burst to close on the QB with good surge, desire and second effort. Negatives: Lacks the ideal size you look for in a two-gap defender and might be a better fit to play under-tackle at the next level, which will limit the teams that will put a high priority on his services (teams like Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, Philadelphia and the New York Jets play the system best suited for Ellis) … Has good upper body power, but he fails to anchor strongly vs. plays directed right at him … Needs to maintain a lower pad level (showed marked improvement here in 2007), as when he gets too tall in his stance he narrows his base, which allows the physical blockers to push him off the snap … Better tackler on the move than in tight areas, but he does show good angle concept when closing on the ball … Has had some leg injuries (left ankle fracture in 2003, right knee torn cartilage in 2006) that robbed him of some of the explosiveness he showed as a prep player … Has a compact frame, but he can't add any more bulk without having it impact his overall quickness … Field smart player, but his adequate academics might indicate he would need time to digest a complicated playbook. Compares To: LA'ROI GLOVER-St. Louis … Ellis is a little bit bigger and heavier than Glover, but not by much. Ellis probably could not carry the bulk to play a classic two-gap, but as an under-tackle he could be a clone of what Glover has done. Both rely on their quickness and ability to neutralize double teams. Both take good angles in pursuit and are move oriented types who get better penetration on the slant rather than with a blocker right over their heads. Ellis is quick to locate the ball in a crowd and uses his hands and quickness to leverage and redirect. Shooting the gaps is a specialty for him, but he is also equally effective as a wrap-up tackler. With his lateral agility and quickness, he will make a nice living creating a new line of scrimmage vs. the running game at the next level. Sedrick Ellis, Southern California, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com
Views: 66739

04-29-2016, 07:21 AM	#292
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread well we will see in four years. fifth is an option. classic redraft is in 5 years anyways. Just because an NFL team passes on a player and they fall out of a round does not mean the NFL is right. in a good draft the NFL gets it right 50% of the time and even that is extremely rare. couple of times tops. so it is safe to say 16 of those picks were not the right players. I am betting a .333 draft for the NFL brain trusts this year

04-29-2016, 07:46 AM	#293
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread When I look at this draft, I look from when we picked and when Treadwell was taken and only two teams looked like they knew what they were doing (Colts and Vikings) Saints (12) Sheldon Rankins, Louisville Sedrick Ellis 2.0 Dolphins (13) Laremy Tunsil, Ole Miss So you fire a GM, run off Incognito over questionable character for Tanked Boy? Raiders (14) Karl Joseph, West Virginia Actually a really good pick, but could have added Treadwell opposite Amari Cooper, ouch... Browns (15) Corey Coleman, Baylor Traded back, back and this is what you opened with? Lions (16) OT Taylor Decker, Ohio State A reach pick for a necessity to protect your QB, but now who's your QB gonna throw to with no CJ? Falcons (17) Keanu Neal, Florida Give Quinn credit for following a blue print and sticking to it, but he reached as Neal even with him off the board at the top of the second round... Colts (18) Ryan Kelly, Alabama Great Selection, Luck is still recovering from his injuries from the beating he took last season, they should draft all offensive line and worry about winning football games next draft... Bills (19) DE Shaq Lawson, Clemson Didn't like Lawson after the drama behind his injury prior to the Bama game; he only started one year once the other kids left and then they announce to the league he'll have sholder surgery after his rookie season?!? Ryans continue to shoot themselves in the foot... Jets (20) OLB Darron Lee, Ohio State He may turn out to be the next Thomas Davis; yeah, okay... Texans (21) Will Fuller, Notre Dame I can hear my cousins over in Houston now - but JP, he looked so good in college playing Navy... Redskins (22) WR Josh Doctson, TCU He'll probably have his best games for the Redskins ( yes, I said Redskins; Redskins; got Cherokee and, surprise, I'm not f**king offended); as saying, best games probably against the Saints, but never a week in, week out performer... Vikings (23) WR Laquon Treadwell, Ole Miss He'll make Bridgewater look better than what he is and make us regret not taking him; but do you really see better before him on this list? Sorry, just don't see it...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

04-29-2016, 08:25 AM	#294
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread Originally Posted by jeanpierre Best Picks of the First Round: No. 5 JAX - DB Jalen Ramsey No. 7 SF - DE Deforest Buckner No.18 IND - C Ryan Kelly No. 23 MIN - WR Laquon Treadwell Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 agreed, Ramsey at 5 is insane I really can't believe that SD passed on him San Diego really needed to replace Weddle at Safety... CheramieIII likes this.

04-29-2016, 09:11 AM	#295
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread with some surprise picks in the secondary I am looking for the trend to continue.

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04-29-2016, 09:13 AM	#296
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread I give us an A- for the first round but now rounds 2 and 3 will be even better. We need starting DE or Safety. OG, OT and WR coming tomorrow boys and girls. SmashMouth likes this.

04-29-2016, 10:59 AM	#297
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread Dennis Allen speaks

04-29-2016, 11:05 AM	#298
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread Sean Payton recaps the first round of the 2016 NFL Draft

04-29-2016, 06:33 PM	#299
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread Originally Posted by SmashMouth Dennis Allen speaks man, we are going to be a different type of d this year. God, dude I went back and watched the first half of the vikes nfc champ game, damn I miss that D. Man we would blitz and bring the pressure. I am interested in seeing what DA brings, but I feel like it is going to be much better

04-29-2016, 06:46 PM	#300
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Re: 2016 Saints Draft Live Discussion Thread spkb25 likes this.

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