Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

JKool might remember this discussion. It's one that was brought up a few months back (has it been a year now?).

Anybody think that the Saints are just scared to make a mistake? I think FA demonstrates this fear more than any other time of year - but it's evident all year round, and it's the feeling that seems to permeate for the entire organization.

I think this organization is scared, and that's why it doesn't make progress. Hell, Loomis came out a couple of days ago and said that there's no reason to be aggressive in FA and get burned by guys like Albert Connell. He talked about 2000/2001 and how you won't see that from the Saints again any time soon.

Meanwhile, didn't the Saints sign Horn, Blake, Brooks, Clemmons (who was a great OLB I don't care what you say), and draft guys like Deuce and Howard in those years?

In any case, this is why I don't expect to see much from the Saints in FA. They're scared to act. They'll sit back and spend a little money on the leftovers. If the guy works out, great, they got a deal. If not, then they aren't losing much either.

I get the same feeling when I read about how the Saints will play a read-and-react type defense, and how they want to limit the big plays. Better to allow a team to nickel and dime you down the field than to make a mistake and attack the wrong hole and get beat deep. This is how I feel when I watch a team with FOUR WRs with sub-4.4 speed throw deep maybe once a game - why take the risk?

But this time of year is when you truly see the Saints colors. Why make a change at coach? The team could get worse, and average is by default, better than half the league. Why go out and sign a new coordinator when one chooses to leave? That's risky and involves money. Just promote an assistant from within - that way you know what you're getting. Why look for a new QB? That could create controversy. Why upgrade at key positions? Let's play with what we got - it might not be perfect, but it won't cost us a lot if it doesn't work out.

I see fear from this team. Fear to stick it's neck out and take a risk - and when was the last time you saw something great accomplished by a person trying to minimize risk?

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

the thing is..they take a shot at the wrong players-players that everyone knows are the wrong players...

brooks was an excellent signing..he just needs to be developed and held accountable.

mcalister, smith were great drafts..its just guys like henry from the browns that we let slip to go after the tebucky jones and sullivans of the world.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

i spose we can buck up and keep the faith. after all, only one offensive tackle, probably one linebacker, a safety or two, a plugging defensive tackle, and a backup receiver are needed. there are seven rounds in the draft. i betcha somebody is signed in the next two or three weeks. forget who it might be, they will. don\'t worry, be happy. hey, i\'m getting there. maybe some doors music... woke up this mornin and had myself a beer.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Total agreement Who. And tha fear has spread to a good number of fans too. Fear that anything different will be a mistake. The team has allowed that attitude to permeate through the masses, and it\'s just wrong. What\'s the saying \"Live like a man instead of dying like a coward.\" Well, our team is slowly dying like cowards.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

We\'ll sign somebody before the week is out. The first day of FA is usually for the big time signups anyway. Everyone else is looking around and weighing options.

Loomis stuck his neck out once and got burned badly (Sullivan). Around the same time he completed what seemed to be a can\'t miss - and got burned (Tbucky). These weren\'t necessarily FA moves, but they do contibute to his current psyche.

Even IF he were to make a risky move in FA, what makes any of us think it\'ll work out?

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

I rest my case.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

againcites teh uqestion who is making the decisions-haslet or loomis..if hasslet-make him stop..if loomis, fire him.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

When I was decoding this, I had to check my post to see if I was being made fun of for bad typing. :P

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

sorry..I saw that after I posted it...I was talking and writing at the same time...decoded it says:

again this cites the question: who is calling the personel shots in NO..if it\'s haslet he needs to stop, if it\'s loomis he needs to be fired.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

maybe doing nothing at all would be better. something bad may not happen that way. maybe, maybe not. tebucky was a stretch, his no-tackle mo was well established.

not to decide is a decision

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Great , I can see it now .....

Hasbeens little alarm goes off on the morning free agency begins , Hasbeen rolls over and kisses his worthless dog spot . Staggers out of bed and down the stairs to his crappy cup of coffee in his kitchen , where he sits with the free agency list in front of him looking at all the potential for him to bring in and sign .

Suddenly Habeen stops and one thought plays over and over in his head ( partially because of a lack of brain size and the echo that the thought causes ) Do I really want to prove to the world I am an Idiot ???

Yep , that works for me .... ;)

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Jokes aside - how else do you explain it?

I mean, let\'s assume for a minute that Haslett and Loomis know nothing about football at all. Just watching the games should be enough to identify to them that the team\'s linebackers are terrible, and have been for 4 years. If that\'s not enough, the press and analysts screaming about the team\'s linebackers might tip them off. Add in the fact that Haslett SHOULD know a thing or two about evaluating talent at the position HE PLAYED, and they have to know LB is a problem. So why don\'t they act to improve the position? Seriously? Other than fear, the only othre reasons I can think of are insanity, or maybe they\'re just playing a dirty trick on the people of New Orleans.

In any case, for the 5th straight year LB is not on the Saints\' list as a priority. It\'s getting just plain ridiculous. It reminds me of Monty Python....

\"Stop that I\'ve won.\"
\"No you haven\'t.\"
\"But I\'ve cut both of your arms off!\"
\"No you haven\'t.\"
\"Look!\"
\"It\'s just a flesh wound!\"

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

It seems to me that there are, at least, two possible explanations:
(1) Fear.
(2) Belief that signing 4 upgrades is better than one big name, and a trade is a brewin\'. Our cap space has been improved by releasing Pathon, but with Howard on the sheets, we are way overpaying for DEs. If we move Howard for a \"star\" who is 3 mil cheaper, we can afford to sign (possibly) two 3-4mil range players, one 5-6 mil range player, OR four to five 1-3 mil range players. We can still get up-grades at OLB, OT, OG, S, CB, and even DT in the 1-3 mil range.

Is that optimistic enough? Where is Billy, I\'m sure he could come up with something?

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

we could drop another 3 million if we drop jones...

I hope a trade is comeing and they are going to look at several positions.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

That\'s the spirit Baron! Now, you\'re seein\' what I\'m seein\'; which means we\'re probably wrong... ;)

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

they are making some cap room indeed. by the time they are through though will there be anyone to spend it on? remember last season they entered the season with 11mil cap room. i slip into my judy garland voice:

somewhere over the rainbow
kendrell bell signed
there is a game i have heard of,
superbowl so high

somewhere over the rainbow
pats win
pats win over the rainbow
why then, why can\'t we?
someday we\'ll sign a free agent star
and i\'ll wake up with .500 far behind me
where playoffs wins flow so easily

somewhere over the rainbow
every other team wins a ring
why oh why can\'t we?

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Judy Garland?

I guess the missing sheep question has been answered. :o

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

:xxrotflmao:

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

LOL judy garland voice with slipknot backing ;)

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Here\'s the deal ...

1. First, free-agency can make or break a team.

These big name free-agents get grossly over-paid and they usually don\'t help their team enough to justify their contracts. Most teams need more than ONE player to really make a difference. And overpaying ONE player can have a very negative effect when it comes to trying to put a \"complete\" team together.

It\'s very debateable how much free-agency has helped or hurt teams.

The teams who historically sign the high-profile players really aren\'t that much better because of it.

The Redskins are a team who has grabbed up more than their fair share of free-agents and are really no better off because of it.

Denver is another team who has tried to cash in with the signing of Champ Baily. It got them nowhere.

Conversly, teams like Philly and New England chose not to go the free-agnecy route and are two of the best teams in the NFL over the past 3 or 4 years.

More times than not, when a team overpays for a free-agent, it really doesn\'t affect their record that much. They might be better off at that position, but overall it really doesn\'t make that much difference.

So, who can blame the Saints for not gambling when it comes to free-agency? Or any team for that matter...

I want the Saints to get the best players they can to help this team. However, I don\'t want them to mortgage their future by grossly over-paying a LB or DT or CB.

If there is an affordable player who can help this team win then they sould actively pursue him. If not, they should pass.

Also, these players must be willing to come to New Orleans. It was recently reported that a big name playe (receiver from Pittsburg, I can\'t remember his name) r was offered more money to go to New England but his wife preferred to live in the Baltimore area because that\'s where she wanted to live.

There\'s much more that goes on than meets the eye.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Womack, Womack, Womack... come on boys, chant it with me!

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Yeah there is more than meets the eye but more often than not MONEY is the bottom line.

And those teams you mentioned(NE and Philly) do make headlining moves ONCE in a while(i.e. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Corey Dillon).

People will say that the Saints would be taking on too much risk by signing a big name, big money type, but you could argue that all of those three players mentioned above were considered risks for one reason or another.

The point remains the same...you can\'t expect to reap big returns without taking some calculated risks. Perhaps the Saints are working up a big one with a Howard trade. History shows us that they aren\'t, but we shall see.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Yep, I agree, it\'s money more times than not. But, most teams are going to offer basically as much money as the Saints. Then the question becomes who do the prefer to play for.

All of those moves by those 2 teams happend in ONE year. And how much did it help them?

Owens was hurt and Philly made it to the super bowl after the Eagles had been to 3 NFC championships.

Dillion defenately helped the Pats running game, but it also added to their cap number and they are having to cut some \"key\" players this offseason. And let\'s not forget, the Pats won 2 superbowls without Dillion.

I think if the Saints are going to sign some big name player, they\'re going to have to break the bank to do it. Plus, I\'m sure other teams are just as willing to break the bank on some of those same players.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

So basically stand pat on the basis of what may or may not happen? BRILLIANT!!!!!!

GT, I was gonna list those exact same people for NE and Philly. Signing TO got Philly the best record in the NFC, whether he was hurt during the playoffs or not. I think signing Rod Coleman helped the Falcs. Champ Bailey was traded for Portis, so Denver gained but they also lost. NE got Dillon cause they knew they weren\'t gonna get there this year without a running game, and it was just enough. So basically what I am understanding is, it is better not to spend a doller early, see what\'s left, target the lower tier of what is left, and hope for the best. BRILLIANT!!!!

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Who said anything about standing pat? Not me.

What I said is that we shouldn\'t overpay and hurt this team. Do you disagree with that statement? Or do you think that doesn\'t happen in the NFL.

The other point I was trying to make is that the players must be willing to come here.

Terrell Owens went to Philly becasue he knew they were close to winning a super bowl. He turned down Baltimore because he didn\'t think they had a chance.

Corey Dillion chose to go to the Pats because he wanted to win a super bowl.

The rest of these big name free-agents basically went to the highest bidder. Or if the money was close they went to the team they felt was best for their situation.

If you were a free-agent would you go to NOLA because of the great food and the great fans? Or because they were willing to pay you the most money? And if the Falcons offered you just as much money, would you still go to the Saints?

Wake up, man...lol

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Wake up to what? Reality? Here is a reality check for you, We have done nothing in FA since Mueller left. NOTHING. Is that awake enough for you? We have several GLARING holes that serviceable guys can fill, like Kool\'s suggestion for Womack. I love it. Where is he? How is getting him breaking the bank? Find an argument someone actually said, and argue against that. I never said they should sign one big player, I SAID THEY SHOULD SIGN SOMEONE AT A POSITION OF NEED. Get it now. We need a T, Womack is available, shouldn\'t be expensive, WHERE IS HE? But you are all excited about Mayberry, yet nowhere on here did I see you list guard as a major need, ever, or anyone else. So maybe you should WAKE UP and stop telling people how they can feel about an inept team once again showing how clueless they are in free agency.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

I would say that it definitely helped those two teams. New England and Philly both nearly ran the table this year. They were MUCH better teams than the year before, but since their margin for improvement in wins and losses was so low, it seems like they didn\'t improve much. However, they were better than their records indicate. All you had to do was look at the games to see that. Not only that...signing a big name has a PSYCHOLOGICAL effect on a team, the fans and the entire community that can\'t be measured on paper.

Yeah sure NE is having to re-structure and what not, but they just won the Super Bowl. There is always fallout from winning a Super Bowl.

Basically successful teams seem to either build through the draft or build through free agency, or both. People are saying on one hand we shouldn\'t spend too much on free agents, but on the other hand we shouldn\'t take much of a risk in the draft either. Do you see the problem here. You have to take a risk SOMEWHERE.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Again, who is satisfied with inept? Not me. I want every avaliable guy who can help this team to be signed TODAY!!

Are we clear on that? Just as soon as we are, we can discuss things much better without me having to post that everytime.. ;)

I\'m not defending the Saints for not making any moves in the past and not helpiing this team get over the hump.

I\'m just telling you that it\'s not as simple as oferring X-amount of dollars and it\'s a done deal. Other teams are offering X-amount of dollars too.

Do you agree with that or what?

You want Womak? Me too. How much does he want? What are other teams offering hiim? Is he willing to come to NOLA?

If you were GM, what would you offer him to make him come here?

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

as i have stated, i too believe in team building within the confines of the cap as a general rule. i think it is undeniable that there is a time push harder for now over build for the future. sometimes overpaying is a necessary evil to get over the hump. i believe the saints are at such juncture.

certainly there have been more losing free agent moves than winners. it goes with the risk turf.

but good and wise signings, even when overpaying cannot be ignored also. i will also contend a couple of the examples pointed out... champ bailey was a trade for portis not a free agent signing. they were getting nowhere with one formula so they tried another. i give them credit for not staying put when mediocre. philly and new england not free agent players?!? 8yr/$66million w/$16mil signing bonus for jevon kearse and a 7yr/$48million w/$10mil signing bonus for terrell owens rate as better than moderate free agent aggressiveness imo. pats had a weak link. what did they do? corey dillon is inked for 3.9mil. #4 on their team for cap hit? rosevelt colvin, 3.9mil free agent signing. they bolster my point more. build, build, then when the time comes- go for it! the saints went into the season $11mil UNDER the cap last season. new orleans may not be the ideal destination as a place for some but i cannot imagine green bay being a more liked city. plenty enough players come from louisiana and the surrounding region. why do players go to the frozen tundra? winning. winning breeds winning. the eagles got trotter for under $1mil last year. there is no way you can convince me he would have turned down $2-3 million from n.o. would that have been overpaying? possibly. might he have made a difference in saints run defense? you know that. rod coleman signed by atlanta last spring, difference maker? antoine winfield, minnesota? the big name high impact players go quick. we haven\'t heard a wimper of the saints seriously entertaining any. in fact, the opposite from loomis. the modus operandi has been established. even money here sez n.o. will be one of the top 5 teams under the cap once the season starts.
there is more than meets the eye but much is outrightly plain to see as well.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

I don\'t think anyone on this board is naive enough to think that it\'s ALL about dollars and cents. What I think we would settle for is a statement from Loomis saying that we tried valiantly to get Hartwell or Bell into a Saints uniform but he opted for greener pastures. I would have no complaints then.

We don\'t even get the effort. If we did I\'m sure we would hear about it. That is why people think that the regime is satisfied with mediocrity.

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

No need for me to respond. Kelley and GT hammered it out nicely. Good go guys. :thumbsup:

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

Well, I\'ll respond. What the problem is and remains, is that Loomis is a fool. Yes, he got burned on Sullivan. I don\'t know about T-Jones, because he did much better with the addition of McKenzie. Also, remember that he came into a system that Albert Einstein couldn\'t figure out in mid season. Everyone here agrees that playing for Venturi is difficult, at best.

What I have continued to harp, rant, gripe, and shout about, most of you ignore. The problem with this organization RIGHT NOW is that Mickey \"Cap Room\" Loomis is incompetent. He doesn\'t understand FOOTBALL operations, he understands contract negotiations. He may be a genius as a cap or contract man, but running the entire show is beyond his capabilities.

He\'s also proved that he is ChickenS--t in his statements last year about Hazlett. He bailed on the organization and the coaching staff with his remarks while protecting his own job. I\'d bet that Bill Polian, Charley Casserly, Rich McKay, or Scott Pioli wouldn\'t have pulled a stunt like that. Face it, the problems start at the top.

Whodi, you are pulling your hair out over us not getting ANY quality player. Why are you surprized? Who Dat hit the nail on the head. The FO is AFRAID to pull the trigger on FA\'s, because they don\'t want to threaten their jobs. The same thing is true with Leon. Big bucks for poor performance. :casstet:

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

well, if you\'re gonna phrase it as you did, i\'d like to see the numbers new england spent compared to ours..........i usually don\'t ask for #\'s , but would be interested to see.....don\'t you think it\'s wise to back off and take your time even though the multi-million dollar players slip through? think about it.....
anything could happen, and i meam anything........are they a player(fa) who will play through injuries as howard would? or will they be a bench warmer if they break a nail? you have to look at total history and even then, it\'s not a sure thing...
SCARED? cautious would be a better word......
but, that is my opinion.........
i think if we start by putting a pacifier in brooks mouth, that may calm him down, but again, my opinion....smitty

Saints - Scared to take a shot?
 

I dunno if this has been said, because there has been alot of nice arguements, but don\'t you think free agents are wary of coming here? I mean, in the past couple of years we have had some guys leave with a bang (Ricky, Turley) so wouldn\'t they be catious to come here?