Tell me folks?

GumboBC · 03-03-2005, 02:08 PM

Floyd Womack is a free-agent and we need him. How much would you offer him?

And whatever that offer is ... is it gonna be enough?

While we're at it .... Can any of you tell me what you are willing to pay of ANY of the free-agents you want. And can you tell me what other teams are offering them?

And can you tell me if another team is offering as much money as you're willing to pay... what would you do then?

[Edited on 3/3/2005 by GumboBC]

saintswhodi · 03-03-2005, 02:19 PM

This link by LKelley says noone has even had him in for a visit or scheduled one.

http://www.theredzone.org/2005/freeagents/fa_visits.asp

What\'s our reason for doing nothing again? I am not a GM, so I can\'t say how much to pay him. But if he has visited ZERO other teams, can\'t be too much can it, at a NEED POSITION. but pro bowler form 2 years ago Mayberry visited. BRILLIANT!!

GoldenTomb · 03-03-2005, 02:25 PM

Floyd Womack is a free-agent and we need him. How much would you offer him?

And whatever that offer is ... is it gonna be enough?

While we\'re at it .... Can any of you tell me what you are willing to pay of ANY of the free-agents you want. And can you tell me what other teams are offering them?

And can you tell me if another team is offering as much money as you\'re willing to pay... what would you do then?

[Edited on 3/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Well geez I don\'t think anyone on this board is a capologist or is as skilled as the average GM in managing the salary cap, so I don\'t believe we could answer intelligently. The issue is not with the Saints potentially having to overpay for free agents. The issue is with them refusing to go after the free agents at all, with the assumption that they won\'t be able to afford them. If they don\'t even have these guys in for a visit, how will they ever know what these guys really feel about New Orleans. Who knows....Kendrell Bell could come here on a visit and see that N.O. is a great place for him to flourish outside of the shadow of Joey Porter. Same with Ed Hartwell and Ray Lewis.

The Saints seem to lack contingency plans in everything that they do. Perhaps they are trying to trade up to get DJ right now, which is why they are neglecting to address the LB issue. I believe you take what you can get, as soon as you can get it though. If you can get a Hartwell right now you take it right, rather than hoping that at DJ will be there in a Tennessee trade, which they might not even be planning on in the first place.

I\'m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but a trade to get DJ might be giving them too much credit.

GumboBC · 03-03-2005, 02:31 PM

The issue is with them refusing to go after the free agents at all, with the assumption that they won\'t be able to afford them.

Yeah, but is that issue real or is it invented?

GoldenTomb · 03-03-2005, 02:42 PM

Well I HOPE that\'s the reason why. If they aren\'t pursuing these guys because they don\'t feel they are worth it then that\'s even worse. Obviously the best players in the league get paid the most. You aren\'t going to get top notch players without paying a premium, and that point is emphasized when your team isn\'t highly regarded.

RDOX · 03-03-2005, 05:04 PM

The issue is with them refusing to go after the free agents at all, with the assumption that they won\'t be able to afford them.

Yeah, but is that issue real or is it invented?

Unfortunately the issue is real. What the problem has become is that we DO NOT have a General Manager in the front office of the organization. Loomis wouldn\'t know talent if it bit him between the legs.

I\'d bet the house note and two of the younger children that Pierce didn\'t come because he knows from talking to other Saints players (Yes, they talk to one another throughout the league) that Loomis is ChickenS--t when it comes to contracts and cap room. Also, quite frankly, Turley, and others have dogged this group of managers and owners with other players in the organization burning up the phone wires telling folks to stay away. If I were Smoot, Pierce, or a high dollar player, I wouldn\'t respond to the Saints either. As long as Hazlett, Loomis, and company expect mediocrity, the stars will stay away. Period!!!

JKool · 03-03-2005, 05:22 PM

We did sign Gandy last season, and though we know how it turned out, most pundits agreed that that was fine work getting a solid replacement for Roaf. In fact Gandy was considered one of the top FA that year, as I recall.

It is not like everyone is afraid of coming here. Some guys don\'t want to come here, I\'m sure that it is perfectly possible that they ALL have DIFFERENT reasons for that. Why should we believe that it is our FO or something like that? I\'m not saying I don\'t think that, I\'m merely asking why other people seem so sure that is what it is?

RDOX · 03-03-2005, 05:31 PM

Why should we believe that it is our FO or something like that? I\'m not saying I don\'t think that, I\'m merely asking why other people seem so sure that is what it is?

When you look at the \"winning\" franchises, I\'ll cite 3:

Green Bay
Philly
New England
(Watch for Houston next)

What do you see that all of these teams have in common? Answer: General Managers who know, understand, and have skill in FOOTBALL operations. With Loomis, you have a person who is highly skilled in contract negotiations, not talent appraisal, not day to day operation, not far reaching plan to get a winner. If you remember Jim Finks, you got that in him. Mora was great for the first few years that he was here under Finks. When Finks died, Billy K took over, and much like Loomis, had not a clue about the operation of the organization. Bill K has gotten better, but Carl Peterson is breathing down his neck. Loomis has no one to pull in the reins and he hasn\'t a clue about personnel. Loomis is interested in one thing, keeping Mickey Loomis employed as GM. Period.

That, in a nutshell, is why I believe that the FO is causing MOST of the problems.

JKool · 03-03-2005, 05:37 PM

A fine argument, if a bit historical for my tastes, RDOX. I will think on that.

03-03-2005, 02:08 PM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Tell me folks? Floyd Womack is a free-agent and we need him. How much would you offer him? And whatever that offer is ... is it gonna be enough? While we're at it .... Can any of you tell me what you are willing to pay of ANY of the free-agents you want. And can you tell me what other teams are offering them? And can you tell me if another team is offering as much money as you're willing to pay... what would you do then? [Edited on 3/3/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-03-2005, 02:19 PM	#2
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Tell me folks? This link by LKelley says noone has even had him in for a visit or scheduled one. http://www.theredzone.org/2005/freeagents/fa_visits.asp What\'s our reason for doing nothing again? I am not a GM, so I can\'t say how much to pay him. But if he has visited ZERO other teams, can\'t be too much can it, at a NEED POSITION. but pro bowler form 2 years ago Mayberry visited. BRILLIANT!!

03-03-2005, 02:25 PM	#3
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Tell me folks? Floyd Womack is a free-agent and we need him. How much would you offer him? And whatever that offer is ... is it gonna be enough? While we\'re at it .... Can any of you tell me what you are willing to pay of ANY of the free-agents you want. And can you tell me what other teams are offering them? And can you tell me if another team is offering as much money as you\'re willing to pay... what would you do then? [Edited on 3/3/2005 by GumboBC] Well geez I don\'t think anyone on this board is a capologist or is as skilled as the average GM in managing the salary cap, so I don\'t believe we could answer intelligently. The issue is not with the Saints potentially having to overpay for free agents. The issue is with them refusing to go after the free agents at all, with the assumption that they won\'t be able to afford them. If they don\'t even have these guys in for a visit, how will they ever know what these guys really feel about New Orleans. Who knows....Kendrell Bell could come here on a visit and see that N.O. is a great place for him to flourish outside of the shadow of Joey Porter. Same with Ed Hartwell and Ray Lewis. The Saints seem to lack contingency plans in everything that they do. Perhaps they are trying to trade up to get DJ right now, which is why they are neglecting to address the LB issue. I believe you take what you can get, as soon as you can get it though. If you can get a Hartwell right now you take it right, rather than hoping that at DJ will be there in a Tennessee trade, which they might not even be planning on in the first place. I\'m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but a trade to get DJ might be giving them too much credit.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

03-03-2005, 02:31 PM	#4
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Tell me folks? The issue is with them refusing to go after the free agents at all, with the assumption that they won\'t be able to afford them. Yeah, but is that issue real or is it invented?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-03-2005, 02:42 PM	#5
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Tell me folks? Well I HOPE that\'s the reason why. If they aren\'t pursuing these guys because they don\'t feel they are worth it then that\'s even worse. Obviously the best players in the league get paid the most. You aren\'t going to get top notch players without paying a premium, and that point is emphasized when your team isn\'t highly regarded.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

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03-03-2005, 05:04 PM	#6
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Tell me folks? The issue is with them refusing to go after the free agents at all, with the assumption that they won\'t be able to afford them. Yeah, but is that issue real or is it invented? Unfortunately the issue is real. What the problem has become is that we DO NOT have a General Manager in the front office of the organization. Loomis wouldn\'t know talent if it bit him between the legs. I\'d bet the house note and two of the younger children that Pierce didn\'t come because he knows from talking to other Saints players (Yes, they talk to one another throughout the league) that Loomis is ChickenS--t when it comes to contracts and cap room. Also, quite frankly, Turley, and others have dogged this group of managers and owners with other players in the organization burning up the phone wires telling folks to stay away. If I were Smoot, Pierce, or a high dollar player, I wouldn\'t respond to the Saints either. As long as Hazlett, Loomis, and company expect mediocrity, the stars will stay away. Period!!!
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

03-03-2005, 05:22 PM	#7
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Tell me folks? We did sign Gandy last season, and though we know how it turned out, most pundits agreed that that was fine work getting a solid replacement for Roaf. In fact Gandy was considered one of the top FA that year, as I recall. It is not like everyone is afraid of coming here. Some guys don\'t want to come here, I\'m sure that it is perfectly possible that they ALL have DIFFERENT reasons for that. Why should we believe that it is our FO or something like that? I\'m not saying I don\'t think that, I\'m merely asking why other people seem so sure that is what it is?
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-03-2005, 05:31 PM	#8
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	Tell me folks? Why should we believe that it is our FO or something like that? I\'m not saying I don\'t think that, I\'m merely asking why other people seem so sure that is what it is? When you look at the \"winning\" franchises, I\'ll cite 3: Green Bay Philly New England (Watch for Houston next) What do you see that all of these teams have in common? Answer: General Managers who know, understand, and have skill in FOOTBALL operations. With Loomis, you have a person who is highly skilled in contract negotiations, not talent appraisal, not day to day operation, not far reaching plan to get a winner. If you remember Jim Finks, you got that in him. Mora was great for the first few years that he was here under Finks. When Finks died, Billy K took over, and much like Loomis, had not a clue about the operation of the organization. Bill K has gotten better, but Carl Peterson is breathing down his neck. Loomis has no one to pull in the reins and he hasn\'t a clue about personnel. Loomis is interested in one thing, keeping Mickey Loomis employed as GM. Period. That, in a nutshell, is why I believe that the FO is causing MOST of the problems.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

03-03-2005, 05:37 PM	#9
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Tell me folks? A fine argument, if a bit historical for my tastes, RDOX. I will think on that.