Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Linebacker reps: Craig Robertson worked in the middle and Nate Stupar was on the weakside. Stupar had a very nice blitz.

More flashes: Brandon Coleman had a very nice catch on a vertical route. On the next play, Michael Thomas got behind prevent coverage by beating a corner down the sideline. Fleener made a handful of contested catches.

Grayson solid: Grayson looks much more comfortable than last seaosn. You can see his growth. He made a very nice throw to R.J. Harris late in the practice down the sideline. Both he and Luke McCown were almost picked off at different points, but you can see Grayson’s growth.

read more

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

GIGI will be the starter next year if Drew doesn't sign a new contract at a lot less money then he's getting now. If he hits FA he will get a 2 or 3 year deal that will be totally skewed to the signing team. Drew has always said he wants to stay in New Orleans. PROVE IT!

If after all is said and done Drew plays hardball with the team and city that took him in when no one else would then he deserves to end his career getting beat up in Cleveland.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Rankins flashes: The first round pick had a pair of nice interior rushes. One of them would have resulted in a sack. The other, at worst, was a solid pressure. One of those came with Nick Fairley also playing inside on a third-down rep.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

WOW! It's amazing to watch how quickly someone can turn from hero to goat. Don't you think that 10 years of HOF excellence, playoff performances, and a SB win is sufficient repayment for the "team taking him in"?

Also let's not forget that Brees took a depressed, team skewed contract when he came in 2006. 6 years/$60 million was literally theft by the Saints for what they got in return. And 5 years in, even the second contract at $100 million turn out to be middle of the road in 2016.

I guess that anything other than complete capitulation to the team and the fans against your own self interest is playing "hardball". Does anyone really think that Brees retiring a Saint is worth shortening his career by two years and giving up $50 million? I mean really?

Let me propose an alternative for you to think about. John Elway and Gary Kubiak recognize that the window is still open for Denver after 2016. They offer Brees 3 years at market rates. The offense rises to top 5 status matching the top 5 defense that's already in place. The Broncos go on to win consecutive championships and Brees goes into the hall of fame as a 3 time winning SB QB as a Bronco.

Don't get it twisted. Negotiating near market rates isn't hardball. Hardball would be asking for a contract that's 5 year/$150 million/$100 million guaranteed with $75 million at signing. That's hardball. There is no indication that's what Brees and Condon are asking for.

I'm really glad that the cool, reasonable head of Mickey Loomis is managing this negotiation. That way something reasonable that is actually in the ballpark of the market will actually get done instead throwing out an insulting lowball offer and then waving "Bye!" to the best QB that this organization may ever see.

I think everyone needs to get wrapped around their heads that the market rate for top 5 NFL HOF level QBs (Brees, Brady, Rodgers) is $25 million a year. That's the market. The Saints can rightfully decide that they cannot afford paying Brees at that rate. But it's really disingenuous to say that asking for a contract at that rate level is playing "hardball"

SFIAH

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

If you actually believe what you just posted then you are living in some kind of fairy driven fantasy land.

:shock::rolleyes:

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

If Brees won't play for a paltry $17 to $20 million after this year, I would let him go. Better a year early than a year late.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

:lolup:

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Explain Guido? That's my opinion.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Look I didn't say Brees didn't do anything for the Saints or the city. I'm saying that the Saints don't have the money, period. That Drew needs to recognize what we really did for him. If we hadn't sign him NO ONE ELSE WOULD HAVE and you think that wasn't a lot?

I think it's time for Drew to consider taking a lower salary, NO PLAYER IS WORTH 25 MILLION A YEAR TO PLAY FOOTBALL!

and if the Broncos want to pay that then let them have at it. I'm not going to worry about 10 years from now when we need to worry about today and the Saints current situation.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Ok. I thought it was pretty obvious, but I'll spell it out for you.

This is delivered as a statement of fact. First of all, where do you get the insane idea that Grayson has the ability to be a starting QB in the NFL when he hasn't even proven he can hold a clipboard? On top of that, you make the proclamation that the Saints will absolutely part ways with Brees if Brees refuses to sign a deal at a number FAR below his market value. That is pure fantasy with no hint of reality. That would be the single worst personnel decision ever made by the Saints, and they have made quite a few. Given the quickly growing cap numbers and the FACT that over $25 million in dead cap rolls off the Saints books after the 2016 season, the Saints can easily afford to make Brees the highest paid QB in the league.

First of all, what does this even mean, "totally skewed to the signing team"? If Brees hits the free agent market he will get what the market will give for one of the top five QB's in the league. In today's market that would be around $25 million per year for three to four years with most likely two thirds of that guaranteed.

Brees has repeatedly proved that he wants to stay in New Orleans since 2006 through his commitment to the city on and off the field. At no point has that commitment ever shown anything other than supporting what is has said on numerous occasions, that he wants to end his career as a Saint.

This statement is just plain dumb. First, why would he decide to suddenly "play hardball" when he has never acted that way before, and secondly, why would you ever dislike him so much that you would wish something like that on him. This is what I was talking about when I said that illogical hatred was being pointed toward Brees by a few around here.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Says who?

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Where in the hell did you get the idea that the Saints don't have the money? Are you basing that on rambling by some members here that do not have a clue? It is not based at all upon fact. After this season the Saints can afford to pay Brees as much as the market bears. Easily!

And if we wouldn't have signed him he most definitely would have signed elsewhere,and maybe for even more than the lowball figure we signed him at.

And where do you come up with the statement that no player is worth $25 million a years to play football? The NFL has revenues approaching $10 BILLION per year and that number keeps rapidly climbing while the rosters stay frozen at 53 players. The average value of an NFL franchise tops a BILLION dollars! Top fashion models get paid $25 million per year. Top actors regularly bring in $100 million per year. Top CEO's can make $50-$100 million per year. What you personally feel a football player is worth is totally meaningless. If an NFL team is ready and willing to pay that amount then that is what that player is worth. Believing anything different is living in a fantasy world.

And I AM thinking about today. Today the only chance the Saints have of being winners is with Brees under center. We are finally clearing the slate clean, so we can hopefully not throw more money away on BAD personnel moves and stick to the best personnel move in the history of the franchise, the acquisition and retention of Drew Brees!

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Exactly!

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Why on earth does it matter to you how much he gets paid? It's not your money. If he gets a new deal it will be front loaded and cap friendly, plus the cap goes up next year AND a lot of the dead money we have now will be done with.
It has no effect on the teams ability to sign players in the future.
You take this way too personal, but I am sure you would walk up to your boss and say "hey boss, I know I am worth more but I would like to take a pay cut or forgo my next raise for the good of the company. I think you are paying too much out of pocket for my salary"

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

This seems obvious to most, but our friend here is one of the irrational few that cannot accept reality.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

RJ Harris looks like he has the early lead for the fifth receiver position.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

The human head weighs 8 lbs.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Says me and remember opinions are objective and everyone has one.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Reality. come on Guido you've been out there a few times yourself and like I said everyone has their own opinion.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Sorry guys I was looking at some screwed up calculation for 2017 and 2018. I found Smash's post from Sportrac. I stand corrected on that one but still believe no one is worth 25 million to play football.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Market value is not an opinion. It is an economic FACT.

An opinion is stating something like, "Personally, I don't think any player is worth $25 million."

On the other hand, stating, "NO PLAYER IS WORTH 25 MILLION A YEAR TO PLAY FOOTBALL!," is not an opinion. It is stated as fact and you know darned well that very soon there will be dozens of players making just that. Reality is and always has been and always will be that actual worth or value is set by what the free and open market is willing to bear. It is one of the most basic principles of economics.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

:lolup:

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Just because clubs choose to pay players the so called market value that doesn't mean my opinion about it is wrong it's still my opinion that no one is worth 25 million to play football.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Not all of them!

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Yes, stated that way it is your opinion and it is also not reality based upon the absolute definition of market value. It is your right to believe in something that is in all actuality false, as illogical as that may be.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Jesus. Not again. Are you seriously going to start this again? Bashing people's opinions and telling them how illogical and stupid they are compared to you? Good hell. I've got a headache.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Of the millions of things that I choose to believe or not belief a football players salary hasn't even crossed my mind. I have other things to do besides forming opinions on how much money someone should make.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Dunno why anyone gives him the time of day. He's just a crotchety old fella who gets his jollies by trolling anyone and everyone he disagrees with. Save yourself some time and ignore him. He'll never admit or acknowledge that he's wrong for his behavior, and he'll certainly never respect anyone else's opinion.

He will, of course, disagree with all of this.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

But this site is for Saints football and salaries are part of that.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

No. Not starting again, I haven't stopped. I just finally got fed up with the uneducated bullcrap that a few of you are spreading concerning Brees, contracts and the Saints cap. I understand the truth is hard to take especially when it makes some of you feel so good bashing the greatest player in Saints history based upon totally false drivel. And, no, I not calling anyone illogical or stupid compared to me. I am calling them illogical with stupid arguments compared to any person that is logical and half way intelligent. Is it hitting close to home?

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Of course salaries are part of it. But they are a given, a piece of negotiated fact based upon the economic environment. They cannot be right or wrong. They are what they are. They are simply a factor, albeit not as important a factor as many, many others and far from instrumental in the success of a team.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

There's less than 3,000 people in the entire world that can play professional football. He plays the position that is considered the most important on the field and generally is the highest paid. He does this as one of the absolute best in the game.

The marketplace decides value.
But unless you're writing checks it doesn't really matter...

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

No, I won't agree with every opinion as I seldom voice an opinion myself. But, I will stridently disagree with anything presented as fact when it has nothing to do with fact and actual fact belies what is being presented.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

No it's not "hitting close to home". I actually agree with you most of the time you arrogant pompous ass. I was only rolling my eyes because your constant berating of other posters is annoying.

I'm done with this convo.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

NO COMMENT! ROFLMAO where's JoeSam when we need him.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

This weekend's "beratings" of a handful of individuals have been nothing more than calling out those that have been erroneously "berating" Brees here over the past few days. I understand opinions are opinions, but if y'all want others that truly care about facts to respect your opinions then give some sort of basis in fact. Half of what I have been hearing has been no more valid than saying, "It is my opinion that the sun rises in the west". It is hard to determine whether the person posting the opinion is truly that dense or simply too lazy to spend a few minutes trying to discover the facts. I hope it is the second.

I understand your being tired of me being a pompous ass. What you need to understand is that I, and a number of others, are sick and tired of the same small circle here being such whiny, little *****y asses. Every damned thread turns into a Brees bash fest. It doesn't matter what the original subject begins as, one of the same few twist it around and attempt to blast Brees for being a greedy, manipulating self-absorbed player that they would rather see elsewhere.

Come on, tell me I'm wrong. It has become an old and tired theme that I have gotten fed up with. Therefore, I am calling out every individual that throws out the same load of crap. If that makes me pompous, fine.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Come on Asylum, no one was "berating" Drew, maybe criticizing but not in a angry way rather just an opinion on what he should do, but when someone disagrees you become angry and start throwing names and insults around like candy at a parade. Calling names won't get you anywhere but get others pissed and if you intend to incite then you're on your way.

and I wasn't originally talking about Brees but mentioned him in the comment about Grayson but I gave too much of an opinion including Brees and that seemed to be the problem with you. There's that opinion thing again.

You talk of respect? Really!

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

What he should do? I am so confused...Drew has nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing to do with our cap troubles. There is as much in dead money as his salary. He is the tenth highest paid QB in the league... like seriously, give it up dude. Admit you were wrong and move on.


Joe Flacco
Ravens
$66,400,000 $22,133,333 $44,000,000 $14,666,667 66.3% 2022 UFA
Aaron Rodgers
Packers
$110,000,000 $22,000,000 $54,000,000 $10,800,000 49.1% 2020 UFA
Russell Wilson
Seahawks
$87,600,000 $21,900,000 $31,700,000 $7,925,000 36.2% 2020 UFA
Ben Roethlisberger
Steelers
$87,400,000 $21,850,000 $34,250,000 $8,562,500 39.2% 2020 UFA
Eli Manning
Giants
$84,000,000 $21,000,000 $36,500,000 $9,125,000 43.5% 2020 UFA
Philip Rivers
Chargers
$83,250,000 $20,812,500 $37,500,000 $9,375,000 45.0% 2020 UFA
Cam Newton
Panthers
$103,800,000 $20,760,000 $41,000,000 $8,200,000 39.5% 2021 UFA
Matt Ryan
Falcons
$103,750,000 $20,750,000 $42,000,000 $8,400,000 40.5% 2019 UFA
Tom Brady
Patriots
$41,000,000 $20,500,000 $28,000,000 $14,000,000 68.3% 2020 UFA
Drew Brees
Saints
$100,000,000 $20,000,000 $40,000,000 $8,000,000 40.0% 2017 UFA

Ryan Tannehill makes 750,000 less than drew per year on the average of their contracts...r u absolutely kidding me

25 million per year for four years would be a ****ing bargain.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

25 seems about right. Saints probably want a bit under that, Drew probably wants a bit more than that.

Thats how it works and thats probably what will eventually happen.

The real debate is for how long, and how much guaranteed.

Both sides have some leverage.

Drew doesn't wanna risk injury or decline so its in his best interest to strike while the iron is hot. His current market value is likely maxed out right now, or very close to it.

The Saints don't wanna risk him having an MVP season with no signs of decline, upping his market value significantly and being out-bid for his final 2 or 3 years.

Re: Notes and observations from Thursday’s organized team activity
 

Yep length and guaranteed, but we will probably need to make 50-60% guaranteed. It is for sure going to be in the 22-25m per year range