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Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; If Brees starts wanting multi millions again when we need to start thinking of the future then I wouldn't be angry at Grayson being given a shot....

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Old 06-04-2016, 07:54 AM   #1
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

If Brees starts wanting multi millions again when we need to start thinking of the future then I wouldn't be angry at Grayson being given a shot.
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:06 AM   #2
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
If Brees starts wanting multi millions again when we need to start thinking of the future then I wouldn't be angry at Grayson being given a shot.
It sounds as if you have no issue with having a crappy product on the field for the sake of money that isn't coming out of your pocket. As a fan you, and I, have not got any clue as to the value of players. The fixation on what individual players get paid is pointless. As fans we should want the very best players on the field. Who the hell cares what the man's check looks like? I want to know that he has the ability to make my team as good as it can be. Brees could decline for the next five years and still most likely be a better option than Grayson five years from now.

With the way the cap is exploding due to increasing revenue streams and with all of the dead cap rolling off the Saints books following this season money is not an issue. That said, why in the hell should it EVER be an issue for the fan? Don't forget, we are ignorant in the scheme of things. Some more ignorant than others.
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Old 06-04-2016, 12:01 PM   #3
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
It sounds as if you have no issue with having a crappy product on the field for the sake of money that isn't coming out of your pocket. As a fan you, and I, have not got any clue as to the value of players. The fixation on what individual players get paid is pointless. As fans we should want the very best players on the field. Who the hell cares what the man's check looks like? I want to know that he has the ability to make my team as good as it can be. Brees could decline for the next five years and still most likely be a better option than Grayson five years from now.

With the way the cap is exploding due to increasing revenue streams and with all of the dead cap rolling off the Saints books following this season money is not an issue. That said, why in the hell should it EVER be an issue for the fan? Don't forget, we are ignorant in the scheme of things. Some more ignorant than others.
Brees is my all time favourite Saint and I love the guy for what he's done for our team.

However, nobody and I mean nobody is bigger than the team, Brees is the best shot we have at winning, but he can't hold the team to ransom every time a contract comes up, our failures in other areas become more apparent and they need to be addressed.

The way the last contract dispute went on was ludicrous, especially considering Brees knew we were without Payton for the whole year and still chose to be play hard ball.

Two year extension somewhere around 20 mil a year would be about right for me, he has to accept that the defense needs upgrading because we don't have a guy coaching the defense with the plug and play capacity as Sean Payton does for the offense.

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Old 06-04-2016, 12:21 PM   #4
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
Brees is my all time favourite Saint and I love the guy for what he's done for our team.

However, nobody and I mean nobody is bigger than the team, Brees is the best shot we have at winning, but he can't hold the team to ransom every time a contract comes up, our failures in other areas become more apparent and they need to be addressed.

The way the last contract dispute went on was ludicrous, especially considering Brees knew we were without Payton for the whole year and still chose to be play hard ball.

Two year extension somewhere around 20 mil a year would be about right for me, he has to accept that the defense needs upgrading because we don't have a guy coaching the defense with the plug and play capacity as Sean Payton does for the offense.
Brees has NEVER held the team to ransom. Where the heck are you getting that idea? He originally signed a 6 year $60M contract which even at the time was low. His next, and last, deal was for five years at $20M per year which very quickly became no more than average for the average starter in the league.

And it appears that you have no clue what that whole last contract year was all about. It has been explained on this site by myself and others dozens of times. The entire ordeal had nothing whatsoever to do with the contract terms. It all came down to the NFLPA and the league fighting over the definition of a second franchise tag. Brees was simply the Guinea pig in the case. Within one week after the case was resolved Brees was signed. It had nothing to do with his playing any sort of hardball. He got what he deserved and no more.

And it does not matter in the least what kind of deal sounds right to you. You are not involved and have nowhere near enough knowledge on the financial or personnel related issue as to when, why or what will eventually take place. NONE of us do. You have clearly been brainwashed as to the importance of any single contract on the ability of a franchise to make other deals by the media, of whom I can testify personally are infinitely less qualified in matters of finance than your average middle income individual, or by other fans who rely upon what that media feeds them.
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Old 06-04-2016, 12:37 PM   #5
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Brees has NEVER held the team to ransom. Where the heck are you getting that idea? He originally signed a 6 year $60M contract which even at the time was low. His next, and last, deal was for five years at $20M per year which very quickly became no more than average for the average starter in the league.

And it appears that you have no clue what that whole last contract year was all about. It has been explained on this site by myself and others dozens of times. The entire ordeal had nothing whatsoever to do with the contract terms. It all came down to the NFLPA and the league fighting over the definition of a second franchise tag. Brees was simply the Guinea pig in the case. Within one week after the case was resolved Brees was signed. It had nothing to do with his playing any sort of hardball. He got what he deserved and no more.

And it does not matter in the least what kind of deal sounds right to you. You are not involved and have nowhere near enough knowledge on the financial or personnel related issue as to when, why or what will eventually take place. NONE of us do. You have clearly been brainwashed as to the importance of any single contract on the ability of a franchise to make other deals by the media, of whom I can testify personally are infinitely less qualified in matters of finance than your average middle income individual, or by other fans who rely upon what that media feeds them.
So I give my opinion, none of it being harsh or anyway rude towards you and what do you do?

You come back with a message filled with self satisfaction and make it verbally abusive to the point where now I "don't have clue" what I'm talking about.

Congratulations buddy, hope being a keyboard warrior makes you feel powerful.
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Old 06-04-2016, 01:17 PM   #6
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
So I give my opinion, none of it being harsh or anyway rude towards you and what do you do?

You come back with a message filled with self satisfaction and make it verbally abusive to the point where now I "don't have clue" what I'm talking about.

Congratulations buddy, hope being a keyboard warrior makes you feel powerful.
Yes, you gave your opinion on what you think is fair, be what it may, but this little tidbit it where I have the issue ...

he has to accept that the defense needs upgrading
No player has any obligation to willingly get paid far below market value solely because of some misconception that it is their fault the franchise has continuously made bad decisions on the defensive side of the ball both through the draft and through free agency. The are a handful of members around here who readily tend to place the blame on the best player our franchise has ever seen and to this day still remains our best chance to return to the Super Bowl anytime within the foreseeable future.

I repeat what I said, you do not have a clue. None of us have a clue, but to misguidedly place blame where it clearly does not belong is ridiculous.
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Old 06-04-2016, 01:21 PM   #7
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
So I give my opinion, none of it being harsh or anyway rude towards you and what do you do?

You come back with a message filled with self satisfaction and make it verbally abusive to the point where now I "don't have clue" what I'm talking about.

Congratulations buddy, hope being a keyboard warrior makes you feel powerful.
Oh, and one more thing I need to repeat. Brees has NEVER held the team to ransom as you blatantly stated. What do you have to say about that? Well?

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Old 06-04-2016, 01:28 PM   #8
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Oh, and one more thing I need to repeat. Brees has NEVER held the team to ransom as you blatantly stated. What do you have to say about that? Well?

Carl Nick's had the right be payed as the best guard in the league as he was at that point, Brees counter offered several of the teams offers making it impossible to pay Carl Nicks what he deserved.

We replaced him with Ben Grubbs which was nowhere near the same talent level as the one we had just lost.

You should work on your people skills, I've read several users saying you undermine their opinions and frankly I feel the same way.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:37 PM   #9
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
Brees is my all time favourite Saint and I love the guy for what he's done for our team.

However, nobody and I mean nobody is bigger than the team, Brees is the best shot we have at winning, but he can't hold the team to ransom every time a contract comes up, our failures in other areas become more apparent and they need to be addressed.

The way the last contract dispute went on was ludicrous, especially considering Brees knew we were without Payton for the whole year and still chose to be play hard ball.

Two year extension somewhere around 20 mil a year would be about right for me, he has to accept that the defense needs upgrading because we don't have a guy coaching the defense with the plug and play capacity as Sean Payton does for the offense.
I'm in total agreement with you sir. I believe Guido has an accounting background and looks at things from a different perspective. While we see a team ham strung by a QB who is a future HOF'er Guido sees a man leading a franchise at a fair rate. If the FO were perfect and every draft pick and free agency move paid off we could afford to pay Drew what he deserves. But we are restricted by the cap even though it is ever expanding.

Drew played his first contract on a prove it deal and he proved he was worth every penny on his second contract. I'm still bothered that he would hold out during the whole bounty gate thing when the team was in disarray and needed a leader. I guess Drew needed money more. Remember Drew chose Tom Condon, who plays high priced hard ball, to represent him so he could sit back and say let's get a deal done.

On the flip side Drew didn't write the contracts that are heavily loaded at the end of the contract. That is Mickey Loomis' doing.

I love Drew and I always will hold him above mere mortals. He took us from obscurity to a Lombardi. He is the face of the franchise and is well recognized nationally as the Saints beloved leader. He represents and epitomizes clean living and success. I love him. But, I am disappointed that he is not a team first guy until he gets paid.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:51 PM   #10
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II View Post
I'm in total agreement with you sir. I believe Guido has an accounting background and looks at things from a different perspective. While we see a team ham strung by a QB who is a future HOF'er Guido sees a man leading a franchise at a fair rate. If the FO were perfect and every draft pick and free agency move paid off we could afford to pay Drew what he deserves. But we are restricted by the cap even though it is ever expanding.

Drew played his first contract on a prove it deal and he proved he was worth every penny on his second contract. I'm still bothered that he would hold out during the whole bounty gate thing when the team was in disarray and needed a leader. I guess Drew needed money more. Remember Drew chose Tom Condon, who plays high priced hard ball, to represent him so he could sit back and say let's get a deal done.

On the flip side Drew didn't write the contracts that are heavily loaded at the end of the contract. That is Mickey Loomis' doing.

I love Drew and I always will hold him above mere mortals. He took us from obscurity to a Lombardi. He is the face of the franchise and is well recognized nationally as the Saints beloved leader. He represents and epitomizes clean living and success. I love him. But, I am disappointed that he is not a team first guy until he gets paid.
Once again, Brees did not hold out for more money during that off-season. He was going to get paid regardless. It is the fact that Brees IS a team player that things lasted as long as they did. He refused to sign the franchise tag on request from the NFLPA until a ruling could be made on its definition. He did it for the sake of every other player in the league. He signed the contract immediately as soon as that ruling was made.

In case you don't remember Brees was working out that whole off-season with members of his offense in San Diego without being under contract. How is that not being team first? How can you be so unfair?

And why should any player ever put a team before his financial future, not that is what he did? That is just plain stupid. I would lose respect for any player that acted that way. Brees has a family. The career of an NFL player is extremely limited and very tentative. If you do not get all you can when you can you are an idiot.
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