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Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by dizzle88 Carl Nick's had the right be payed as the best guard in the league as he was at that point, Brees counter offered several of the teams offers making it impossible to pay Carl Nicks what ...

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Old 06-04-2016, 02:12 PM   #1
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
Carl Nick's had the right be payed as the best guard in the league as he was at that point, Brees counter offered several of the teams offers making it impossible to pay Carl Nicks what he deserved.
Thats not how I remembered it at all.

We could have franchised Nicks and kept him here, but since a deal wasn't done with Brees we had to franchise Brees and were then unable to keep Nicks.

We also offered "nearly" the same money as Tampa did, but he left for a few dollars more.

I love me some Drew Brees, but his (Condon's) prolonged negotiations cost us Carl Nicks.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:20 PM   #2
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Thats not how I remembered it at all.

We could have franchised Nicks and kept him here, but since a deal wasn't done with Brees we had to franchise Brees and were then unable to keep Nicks.

We also offered "nearly" the same money as Tampa did, but he left for a few dollars more.

I love me some Drew Brees, but his (Condon's) prolonged negotiations cost us Carl Nicks.
Once again, it was not the negotiations that took so long. It was the final determination of the franchise tag ruling which strung it all out. That is what had everything stalled. The Saints could have paid Nicks whatever he wanted but clearly felt his demands were too high. I love how people blame Brees for being greedy while he was simply taking one for his union and nobody blames Nicks for truly being greedy by insisting on being the highest paid guard in the league.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:28 PM   #3
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Once again, it was not the negotiations that took so long. It was the final determination of the franchise tag ruling which strung it all out. That is what had everything stalled. The Saints could have paid Nicks whatever he wanted but clearly felt his demands were too high. I love how people blame Brees for being greedy while he was simply taking one for his union and nobody blames Nicks for truly being greedy by insisting on being the highest paid guard in the league.
I don't think so, because all that happened after we franchised Brees, who refused to negotiate the previous year even though the Saints wanted to.

Drew (or Condon) decided to play out his contract instead of negotiating a new deal. It absolutely cost us Carl Nicks since we could have forced him to remain a Saint under the tag, or we could have had a more concrete figure in mind to keep him.

We decided it was more important to pay Brees whatever it was going to take than to over-pay for Nicks and risk losing Brees.

So we franchised Brees, lost Nicks and then went to war over the tag issue.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:41 PM   #4
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
I don't think so, because all that happened after we franchised Brees, who refused to negotiate the previous year even though the Saints wanted to.

Drew (or Condon) decided to play out his contract instead of negotiating a new deal. It absolutely cost us Carl Nicks since we could have forced him to remain a Saint under the tag, or we could have had a more concrete figure in mind to keep him.

We decided it was more important to pay Brees whatever it was going to take than to over-pay for Nicks and risk losing Brees.

So we franchised Brees, lost Nicks and then went to war over the tag issue.
No, Brees wasn't franchised because he was refusing to negotiate that previous season, he was franchised because the Saints were at the time unwilling to pay his what he was worth and he didn't want to have any negotiations taking place during the season. His play during that season proved his worth. Once the season was over was when the NFLPA came into play and asked Brees to hold out for the tag to be applied so they could challenge the league.

But regardless, losing Carl Nicks was not the reason the Saints have not been back. The problem has been and remains to be the defense. Having or not having Nicks is way overplayed.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:46 PM   #5
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
No, Brees wasn't franchised because he was refusing to negotiate that previous season, he was franchised because the Saints were at the time unwilling to pay his what he was worth and he didn't want to have any negotiations taking place during the season. His play during that season proved his worth. Once the season was over was when the NFLPA came into play and asked Brees to hold out for the tag to be applied so they could challenge the league.

But regardless, losing Carl Nicks was not the reason the Saints have not been back. The problem has been and remains to be the defense. Having or not having Nicks is way overplayed.
Thats speculation. It was reported on several sites that the Saints offer would have made him the highest paid QB of all time. Drew decided to play out his contract instead.

Agreed Nicks wasn't our downfall, but there was a significant drop-off from Nicks to Grubbs.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:01 PM   #6
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Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Thats speculation. It was reported on several sites that the Saints offer would have made him the highest paid QB of all time. Drew decided to play out his contract instead.

Agreed Nicks wasn't our downfall, but there was a significant drop-off from Nicks to Grubbs.
That too is nothing but speculation. But for argument's sake, let's say it is true. Let's say they did offer him a deal that averaged the highest ever, but was structured in such a manner that not much of that was guaranteed and could only be realized on the back end. That's sounds pretty familiar to Loomis type deals, no? It sounds good to someone that doesn't truly understand contracts, but isn't worth a crap as a secure deal in today's game. Gullible media members and their equally unknowing fanbase would eat it up.

And, yes, a significant drop-off, but nothing at all worth vilifying Brees over, especially when it was not his fault whatsoever.
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