Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

According to Mike Detillier.....

No link but it's from a reliable source.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

More people who we don\'t need. :casstet:

We already pay Stecker 1 mil per year to back up, we don\'t need to waste more money on a free agent commanding the same amount to alternate btw 2nd/3rd stringer. I rather draft a Gore in the late rounds of the draft, maybe even a Clarett if we wanted a bruiser.

If we sign Mili and not cut either Conwell or Williams, I\'ll jump off the highrise. Conwell, Williams, Hilton, and Hall is our depth at TE. Definately a waste of visit.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Do you think perhaps the Saints are serious about having McAllister and Stecker on the field at the same time? Perhaps we\'ll try out a pro-set this year? I can\'t see how that will be good for McAllister given his love for a lead blocker, but might open up the short passing game with the back (Stecker)?

Every year we seem to need someone to backup Duece. Do you think they are trying harder this year?

I like Dayne over Thomas though.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

papz-

You do realize our rushing attack was one of the worst in the NFL don\'t you? When Deuce got injured, Stecker simply couldn\'t carry the load and we finished 27th out of 32-teams in the NFL.

Runningback is a tough postion to play and it\'s common for a RB to sustain some kind of injury. IMO, if there ever were a position where you needed a good backup, it would be runningback.

And why knock the Saints for paying too much. Do you know how much they are going to pay him?

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Anthony Thomas Rushing Stats:
2001 CHI 14 278 1183 4.3 46 7
2002 CHI 12 214 721 3.4 34 6
2003 CHI 13 244 1024 4.2 67 6
2004 CHI 12 122 404 3.3 41 2

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Gumbo do you realize that Deuce was hurt last year? Do you realize Stecker did fine in his absence? Do you realize that if we weren\'t down by 14 at halftime every game, we\'d actually run the football in the second half? Do you realize once teams are down at halftime, they abandon the run game? Did you notice that happened a majority of the time last year? Do you think that contributed to our rushing attack nubmers? Do you think that if Deuce is healthy next year he\'ll be primed for 1500 yards again? Have you actually been watching the games?

How much do you think the going rate for this guy would be? Do you think it would be around the salary of Steckers who is not as good of a rusher as Thomas is? Do you think it would be a better idea if we drafted a back instead?

Hey you know what? If we can sign this guy for around 750k or a little more without having to give this guy a good bonus, go for it. I\'m all for it. I\'m also like Dayne would would probably come cheaper. Remember we are looking for a third running back on our depth chart.

Do you guys think it\'s kind of ironic that with so much problems on defense, we are always talking about getting players on offense? We need to worry about signing Smith, trading Howard, or signing a stud linebacker than worry about a petty 3rd string running back.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

papz--

Hey, man, no matter what you say, Stecker didn\'t perform very well last season. He had ONE good game. Besides that, Stecker isn\'t an every down type of back.

Stecker is great is situational duty, but he CANNOT be counted on if Deuce goes down. Which is why Deuce played hurt last season.

I\'m trying to talk about upgrading at runningback, which is what this thread is about:

Since when did bringing in Thomas prevent us from doing any of that?

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

A healthy Deuce solves all the problems. I like developing young players so I would address our problems through drafting for a position of this nature. Two different people, two different ideas. I can\'t say I\'m right or I\'m wrong or vice versa with you. We can\'t expect everyone on this board to think alike if not it would be absolutely BORING. Like I said, I\'m fine with signing the guy if he\'s cheap because I rather spend our money to sign a marquee free agent (<~~ answering your question) Starter over depth at 3rd string rb \"first\", anyday for me.

1280 AM. I listen to it all the time and funny how Stecker\'s name always come up on there. From what I hear and feel, I\'m not the only one that thought Stecker did fine. If we didn\'t feel he could have done the job, we wouldn\'t have give that multi million dollar contract he received last offseason.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Listen to what you\'re saying, papz. Sure a healthy Deuce solves all problems. But, Deuce has gotten injured for 2-years in a row!!

Last year the coaches rushed Deuce back on the field because Stecker wasn\'t getting it done.

Stecker is great for certain things, but he\'s never been a full time RB in the league and I think the Saints are looking for a #2 runningback who can carry the load if Deuce goes down.

Look at the situation in Carolina. They\'ve got 3 guys who have proven they can carry the load. Stecker, on the other hand, has rushed for 100-yards only once. And the bottom line is we finished 27th in rushing with Stecker as the back-up.



[Edited on 6/3/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

The bottom line is that our OT\'s and LB\'s suck and we are bringing in A-Train, hence anyone reasonable would concur that our FO is STUPID!!!!!!!

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Lol I guess you are on the Nick Goings bandwagon now. Where was he before this year? When he was given his chance, he produced. Goings was their 4th string, who know he had that talent? If Stecker didn\'t have talent, he wouldn\'t be playing in the NFL period.

Davis = free agent from Redskins; 1st string
Foster = injured college talent who they took a chance on;2nd
Hoover = fullback 3rd string
Goings = free agent 4th string

Now if I were to tell you starting the season that Davis is injured, Foster coming off of injury, and Hoover is 2nd string with Goings being his back up, would you be all over Carolina\'s running back bandwagon? What I\'m saying here is why not give the guy a chance? Carolina did and they found 4 gems. Hoover did awesome when he was in there and so did Goings. Why not give Stecker a chance? Is it because he\'s too small (cough Warrick Dunn)? Is it because he wasn\'t drafted high (cough Rudi Johnson, Najeh Davenport)?

Gumbo go up there an answer my questions... and then tell me whether or not it\'s the running backs fault. And are you even reading I\'m all for signing this guy if he\'s affordable? I think you need to read the whole statement instead of picking out what you want to read.





[Edited on 6/3/2005 by papz]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Papz, you seem to have a hard time understanding what I\'m saying.

Aaron Stecker HAD his chance last year. And while he didn\'t suck, he did NOT get the job done.

Look, we finished 27th in the NFL in rushing. Whose fault is that? You can blame Deuce being injured. But when he was healty he was able to rush for 100+ yards behind our offensive line. Stecker could not produce that kind of yardage.

Why do you want to complicate this? Who cares where someone was drafted? I could care less.

What I\'m concerned about is what do we do in 2005 if Deuce goes down. According to you ... we\'re fine. But, we weren\'t fine last year with Stecker and finshed almost dead last in rushing.

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Please do me a favor and check out his stats. And I believe he won a game for us against St.Louis last year in one of his starts. How didn\'t he get the job done? How many carries did he get per game? Did he rush for an average of at least 80 yards in each contest? I don\'t consider 3 games as being given a chance... and if you do, then look at his numbers. Because you know what, for the 15-18 carries he got, he did absolutely fine.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Okay, papz. If you\'re fine with Stecker, then we simply disagree. I like Stecker as a change of pace back.

But I do not feel good with him if he has to carry the load if Deuce gets injured.

And here\'s why:

1. Stecker has been in the NFL for 5-years and the most carries he had in a one year period is 58-carries.

2. When Deuce got injured we finished 27th in the NFL in rushing.

3. The coaches chose to play an INJURED Deuce instead of a healthy Aaron Stecker. Wonder why?



[Edited on 6/3/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Obviously you mean Stecker. Who wouldn\'t play an injured Deuce instead of Stecker? An 80% Deuce is still better than most of the backs in this league. Would you start Stecker ahead of Dunn and Alstott? PLEASE stop playing an injured Deuce or our running backs for ranking 27th in the league. PLEASE realize being down by 14 plus points at halftime GREATLY affects this statistic. Blame the defense for every game leading up to the last four games of the season.

PLEASE FOR THE LAST TIME REALIZE THAT I\'M ALL FOR SIGNING THIS GUY IF HE\'S AFFORDABLE. PLEASE REALIZE THAT I\'M SAYING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER. AND PLEASE STOP DOGGING STECKER BECAUSE HE DID ABSOLUTELY FINE IN THE 2 or 3 STARTS.

Trust me I\'m all for competition, because as we know in this league anyone can be replaced. But if it\'s for the right price. Remember like I said up there it would be boring if we didn\'t argue/debate. Two different people, two different views... and no hard feelings. :cheers:

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Hey, papz ... it\'s all good.

Of course I don\'t want to pay a back-up runningback anymore than we have to.

I just can\'t understand how you could feel comfortable with Stecker, though.

Considering back-up runningback is probably the most important back-up of any position, I\'d like some one who has PROVEN they can carry the load. Rather than someone like Stecker who we only HOPE can carrry the load if Deuce goes down. :salute:

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Trust me I get your point... I\'m just saying don\'t give up on this guy so quickly. Like so many other players in this league, if not given extended time to prove themselves as capable players, you wouldn\'t have the Nick Goings and Rudi Johnson\'s out there. If we can sign him and he proves to be cost effective, I would love him have him on this team. Just like I did your OL Mayberry. I was very surprised that we didn\'t have to break bank on him and think he would be a good addition (if he has some gas left ;) )

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

A-Train is poo. Take it from a guy who lives in Chicago. A-Train\'s career is done, IMO. Sure he\'ll play somewhere for a few more years, but the guy just doesn\'t have it.

I\'m also wondering if RB isn\'t a slightly over-inflated \"need\". I like Stecker personally, but bottom line is, if the defense isn\'t putting the team in a hole almost immediately and forcing the O to play catch up from the middle of the first quarter, the running game isn\'t abandoned. My 2 cents.. back to my booze.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

I get to disagree with WHO!!!!! This statement is 100% false, but you are boozing, and so I will let it slide. Instead of arguing it, I will post the link to where I disproved it if need be.

Back on the debate, \"Why the hell is this team looking at BACKUP RB in the 1st week of FA? They\'re on the wrong side of the ball!!! Anyone else have a problem with this?

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

You didn\'t read the rest of the thread sw... trust me... I have. ;)

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

If our OFFENSE is to blame for our poor defense, then ... we should be concentrating on OFFENSE in free-agency. Should we not?!

If our OFFENSE was the problem, saintwhodi, why are you so hell bent on us getting DEFENSIVE players? Makes no sense to me...

It seems you think DEFENSE is our biggest area of need but you say the OFFENSE is the problem? :no:

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

I ain\'t gonna get into this with you again, but I love misquotes. I NEVER said the offense made the dfense BAD, I said the defense was BAD and the offense made it look WORSE. Understand the difference? Seems pretty simple to me. If a girl has buck teeth, you may say that girl is ugly. If that girl has a bad haircut and acne on top of buck teeth, you would probably call her hideous. See the difference? That\'s why we need to get better players on defense.

Last time, in caps: THE OFFENSE DID NOT MAKE THE DEFENSE BAD. A SUB_PAR OFFENSE MADE A BAD DEFENSE LOOK WORSE. :o

I don\'t want the defense to have to cover the O\'s mistakes, I would prefer the defense be dominant in its own right and it does not appear we are trying to accomplish that. Also, the problem that I feel is the biggest on the O is not being addressed and won\'t be, so that leaves fixing the defense and making it better regardless of the O as a better alternative. Maybe we can hold teams for 4 quarters with a better D until the O decides to show up. ;)

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

saintwhodi --

I can\'t say I disagree with any of that.

However, I think it was the lack of a running game that hurt the offense more than anything else.

Teams don\'t get away from running the football if they are averaging 4-yards per carry. Simply put, we couldn\'t run the football with any consistency.

If we could have averaged somewhere around 4 yards per carry, it would have helped our defense. So, yeah, our offense certainly didn\'t help our pathetic defense. I agree.

Most of the reasons for that was our offensive line, an injured Deuce McAllister, and no back-up that could carry the load.

I understand what you\'re saying and I think I agree.

How\'s that? ;)

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

WHOA!!! Hold the phone!!! Did I just read this:

I have no words............ ;)

I agreed with Kool on this in another post, and I will do the same. It\'s off the A-Train, but here\'s the deal. If we get Miller too, I will cut the team some slack. That is two definite moves to improve our line, which can only help the D. I STILL want impact defensive players, but I think we all do. But if we fix the line, A NEED is being addressed, so I will agree. I still don\'t know why we are looking at A-Train, but I am gonna give ground on that too. He has to be better than KiJana Carter or Lamar Smith. So, because of you and Kool, I am taking a step back. But, if the remaining LBs fly off the board without a visit, I won\'t be too happy. This guy :EVILLE: is waiting to come back.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

That guy is scary... :peer:

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

If Mayberry is our only move on the OL, I\'m not ready to call that much of an improvement though. I think we need Mayberry and a RT. That would be a substantial improvement!

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Yeah Kool, that guy scares me too. ;)

But IF we do add Miller, I will be okay cause trading Howard will still create enough of a surplus in the cap where we could still get a big time defensive free agent(whoever is left). I just read from Gumbo and JoeSam though that Bell failed a physical for the Giants, so he may be out of the running. That leaves Hartwell, Darren Sharper, poss trade for Jamie Sharper, Or a RFA such as Will Witherspoon. OR, we may keep Howard, and be trying to work a long time deal. As much as I like Howard, that is the worst option to me. What happens when Grant\'s contract comes up? It will be the same situation. Plus Howard\'s injuries make him unreliable. But, I will be happy with the O line moves if we add Miller, or even pork chop Womack. I would prefer him though cause he is much younger, and we won;t be talking about his decline in 2 years like Gandy\'s.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

I agree that backup RB is a lesser need (I agree the OL & D need the most attention), but I like the A-Train. He\'s an underrated and undervalued back, plus he\'s a bit of a bruiser. If the Saints could sign him at a value price (and it\'s been pointed out he\'s a Louisiana native), I wouldn\'t complain.

He\'d be an excellent short yardage, change of pace guy. And really, that would give us one of each, which is an interesting prospect. We\'d have Deuce as the primary back, a bruiser in A-Train, and the \"scat back\" in Stecker. That could work...

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Whodi,

I think Womack will be (much) cheaper, and I am a fan, but Miller is a bit more proven than Womack. I\'m not sure what I think about a lineman at 9 years experience. Many OLinemen can play well into 14 seasons before they really start hurting (it is a faster rate of decline at LT than RT and faster at both of those than any of OG or C).

Miller: Womack:Link: http://scout.scout.com

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Both interesting but pork chop has more upside as it seems. Miller is more established, but when does the decline start? Gandy is 34 and you can see his talent going downhill. I am leery of that. At least with a young guy, you KNOW he can get better. Once an old player starts getting older, you are stuck with what you have. And Womack will not command as much money. But, either/or. We still aren\'t talking about a defensive player signing. :(

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

I\'m certain that we agree on this one. Just food for thought, really.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

I agree with everthing papz wrote,
Works for me, no typing to get my point across :)

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

I\'m a little confused here, so correct me if I\'m wrong, but, didn\'t you start a couple of threads a couple of weeks ago to try to prove how this was not the case?




[Edited on 7/3/2005 by Saint_LB]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Laid Back!!

Don\'t even go there, into the Gumbo Zone. It makes the Twilight Zone look like Einstein. You\'ll never get either good sense or logic. I\'ve given up. It\'s worse than Handy Man!!

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

What do you guys think about A-Train vs. Dayne vs. Hearst?

How about Womack vs. Miller?

Maybe the Miller deal is dead, since it didn\'t happen today?

PS - Who the heck is Handy Man? Is that Miller\'s agent? ;)

[Edited on 7/3/2005 by JKool]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Hey, RD, what\'s shaking. Glad you could stop in. I am trying to make sense of some of this, but it\'s getting harder every day. In regards to Handy, I didn\'t have too much problems with that \"character.\" You may remember that I thought the dude wasn\'t for real, but more like a fictional character that somebody created. He certainly always stayed on the same side of the fence, though. His posts were short and sweet, if I remember correctly.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

JK, Handy Man was a poster from the old Saints message board...very opinionated, a staunch AB supporter, and had a little trouble with grammar. Whether or not his grammatical mistakes and the personality that he presented was real was debatable, IMO.

In regards to your question about the players you mentioned, I am not too keen on A. Thomas or Dayne. I\'m not sure if you are referring to Garrison Hearst or someone else, so I can\'t comment. The other two guys I am totally unfamiliar with, so I don\'t have any opionion. I am not that much of a student of the game that I keep up with all of the players from all of the teams. I am more of a student of the Saints and a couple of other teams I follow, and don\'t go digging too much for more info just for the sake of making conversation on this board. Don\'t take that like I\'m saying you or anyone else does, it\'s just all of the information I get is from watching the teams I like, and that\'s about where it ends.

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

LB,

(1) Thanks for the clarification. This Handy Man sounds like a bit of an a-hole. I can\'t say for sure, but I\'m sorry you guys had to deal with that.

(2) I did mean Garrison Hearst. Apologies for not clarifying that.

(3) I posted some stuff on Miller and Womack earlier in this thread. I understand if you have no real opinion on this, but I was just wondering. (Just trying to steer this thread to a more productive discussion, to be honest.)

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

No one should be confused about my statements concerning the \"offense hurt the defense\".

First: In the orginal debate I said the offense hurt the defense SOME.

Second: I said it was primarily the running game that really hurt our offense.

Third: Go look it up if ya don\'t believe me... :D

As bad as our offense was; our defense was even worse.

It works both ways guys. Our offense hurt our defense. Our defense hurt our offense. If anything, our 32nd ranked defense hurt our 17th ranked offense more.

No arguement, with any credibility, can be made that our offense hurt our defense more than our defense hurt our offense.

For arguements sake, let\'s presume it\'s a wash. Let\'s say they cancelled one another out.

As it stands, our defense is worse than our offense.

We can sit here and blame our offense for our defense. We can sit here and blame our defense for our offense.

I prefer to look at each unit for what they are.

[Edited on 7/3/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 7/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit
 

Hey Whoodi - I may have been boozing, but that doesn\'t change my statements.

1) A-Train is poo. It seems that the guy would be coming home to die (in terms of his NFL career). Doesn\'t he still hold the High School Rushing record in the State - Baton Rouge Catholic I think. Seems like he wants to be near his mama while he\'s warming the bench. Who can blame him? I\'d rather sit on the bench in the 72 degree Dome over Soldier field in December.

2) I don\'t know how you can argue that being 20 points down doesn\'t alter your game plan and limit the run.

3) RB is an OVERBLOWN need. Week 2, Deuce gets hurt against the 49ers. Week 3, Aaron Stecker makes his first start. He rushed 18 times for 106 yards, a TD and a long of 42. That\'s a Deuce-like day. Not bad at all in the NFL. Week 4, Stecker gets his second start. The Saints are down 14-3 to the Cards in the first half. Steck gets only 8 carries all game. That\'s a defense and coaching problem, you can\'t blame Stecker for having a bad day when the guy got 8 freaking carries. Week 5, Deuce returns and rushes for 102 yards against the Bucs. I just fail to see the giant need. People act like Deuce was out for 8 weeks. He wasn\'t. He missed two games. If the coaches continued to play him when he wasn\'t fully healthy, and that hurt the team\'s running game, whose fault is that? I blame Haslett - just like I blamed him when he failed to play a capable backup in 2002 when Brooks was hurt.