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Mayberry was a good addition, but he is a natural OG. The team is saying he will play RT, but they are still courting Fred Miller and actually offered him a contract which he will decide on by early this week. Miller is deciding between N.O. and the Bears.

The Saints also have Oklahoma RT Jammal Brown as their #1 tackle prospect in next month's draft. A lot of different scenario's at RT as is stands now.

Itula Mili(TE-Sattle) and Anthony Thomas(RB-Chicago) are meeting with Saints officials today. Thomas is a Winfield, La. native. He'd be the primary back-up to Deuce.

I am still hopeful we will land Dwight Smith at FS(he can play CB as well). That would enable us to release Tebucky Jones on June 1st. Smith is younger, more aggressive, and a MUCH BETTER tackler than TJ. That would be a very nice addition to our secondary. I still think we need to draft a CB on day one of the draft.

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Hey, welcome to the board. Watch for LKelley as he may be jealous you are taking his job as the resident info guy. ;)

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Thanks for the welcome. I\'m a Saints diehard and have been my entire life. I think the more information we can gather will make this an even better forum. I look forward to being a part of it.

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I\'ve been thinking about Brown as our first pick. If that is to be a real option, we had better get ourselves a LB and Safety before the draft. Also, I\'m not sold on this \"Sullivan reborn\" stuff; I am of the view that BPA in the draft may well be a DT at #16.

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That\'s a tough call, JKool. One I\'ve thought about many times.
In the last 4-games, I thought Howard Green and Brian Young really stepped it up more than our youg linebackers. While neither one are ever likely to be dominant, they seem serviceable?

And with the possibility of Sullivan being able to step his game up, I don\'t know if drafting DT is the wise choice.

Instead, I would \"gamble\" at DT and draft LB if one is avaliable. It\'s going to depend on how free-agency shakes out. I can also see a need to draft a \"stud\" offensive LT.

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Getting a DT would allow us some trade options if Sully does step up. If he doesn\'t it provides us with a critical position fill.

I\'m not sold on rookie Tackles - they are busts as often as they are great or even solid; many times they are moved to Guard. I\'ll happily be corrected on that view, but for now that is my memory of the past 5 years at Tackle in the draft.

A DT who isn\'t a super star is never really a total loss, IMO.

I don\'t know what I think about this, but I feel like DTs are fairly deep in the first round, unlike OTs and LBs. If we were to take an LB other than DJ; I\'d like to see us trade down for an extra 2nd and take two of the middling LBs rather than reach with our first pick. If we trade down, I think we can still get Thomas Davis, who would help our aging Safety corps.

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Good point gator.

What\'s happening... no bickering, good points, and good ideas with the last couple of threads! What has our forum come too!?! :comp26: :broccoli:

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by papz]

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Gator,

Bicker... bicker... bicker...

I more or less agree with your assessment of our coaching staff, though.

I really hope that there is some validity to the rumor that Haz\' involvement in the defensive play calling over the last four games has some truth to it. With McCarthy gone, I think there is some reason for hope.

:soleil:

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There\'s truth to that, but the recent track record of first round DT\'s has brought a dearth of overpaid busts into the NFL. Some 1st rounders since 2000:

Chris Hovan (25th overall, 2000)
Gerard Warren (3rd overall, 2001)
Damione Lewis (12th overall, 2001)
Ryan Pickett (29th overall, 2001)
Wendell Bryant (12th overall, 2002)
Dewayne Robertson (4th overall, 2003)
Johnathan Sullivan (6th overall, 2003)
Kevin Williams (9th overall, 2003)
Jimmy Kennedy (12th overall, 2003)
William Joseph (25th overall, 2003)

Some of these guys might not necessarily be \"busts,\" but it\'s questionable whether they\'ve justified where they were taken. Yeah, hindsight and all, but I\'m not yet sold on another 1st round DT.

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I see your point Mutey; good research too.

I think the idea is this: while a first round DT may not be a super star, there is generally a floor as to how bad he\'ll be at his own position. That floor (in terms of playing ability) is acceptable, even if it is the case that he is way overpaid (as per your examples). That is different for OTs. While I haven\'t done the research, it takes OTs longer to develop, many of them end up playing OG instead of OT and more of them turn out to be busts than DTs. My general view regarding this is that the skill set for being an NFL OT is actually more difficult to guage coming out of College than that of DT.

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It all goes back to the front office. If a team has a staff of personnel people in place who are excellent talent evaluators, they can find some mid-late round \"gems\" in any given draft class. The Saints aren\'t blessed with a great front office. Mickey Loomis, Rick Mueller, Russ Ball, and the others have yet to put together a solid draft class from top to bottom. Last year\'s class has some promise, but the three year window is not yet up.

Teams must rebuild and re-load through the youth movement. We\'ve had some questionable draft choices that we have taken high and they have yet to pay off. Johnathan Sullivan was the most recent. Donte Stallworth, while a solid NFL player, has yet to reach the status set for him by the staff for being the 13th pick overall. The Saints have a tendancy to reach for player\'s on draft day. Cie Grant was rated by many teams as 5th rounder because he was injured a lot in college and played a number of different positions while at OSU. He has never been healthy here and it looks as though he won\'t ever be a factor in a Saints uniform.

I really think with the 16th and 40 picks overall, we have some ability to move up, if necassary, but I am not a believe in that. I think we have a lot of holes to fill on this team and I\'d like to see us add some more draft picks. We still need to draft a young CB with upside and get him developed as a nickel back who can eventually start within his first year or two. This is a priority, as we cannot keep waiting anymore to draft a player who is fresh and ready to be coached in our scheme.

The NFL Scouting Combine just ended last week and Saints officials were meeting with a number of different players. They will also take full advantage of the NFL maximum of 20 pre-draft visits by invited draftees prior to the draft. It all goes back to the draft guys. We draft well, we stay contenders and continue to get younger and faster, and more talented. We draft poorly or inconsitently and we remain a team who is in the middle of the pack and a team who signs \"stop gap\" players just to make a 53 man roster. We can no longer afford to have high picks on the in-active list.

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Can\'t disagree with that at all. I think it\'s MUCH more difficult to find a quality OT (especially a LT) than a quality DT, period. Won\'t ever catch me arguing against that.

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This is the deepest draft in years. A majority of players that will be drafted in the second round this year, would easily be first round picks in other drafts. I\'m also not in favor of moving any of our top 3 picks. With all that is said about the players in this draft, I don\'t think even Loomis, Mueller, Ball, and Haslett can go wrong even though that are bonafide boneheads. :casstet:

Someone in a different thread stated that they would rather trade Howard for a high round pick than getting him 1 for 1 with Darius of the Jaguars. I\'m not opposed to that idea either and it would free up the cap room needed to address our need for a marquee free agent on the defensive side. If we were to acquire this extra pick, chances of moving up would look brighter if we decided to do so (for the hardcore Derrick Johnson fans out there :P)

Some site I can\'t remember exact posted an update on Cie Grant. It looks as if any hopes for him seeing the field ever is now over.

My favorites for the draft for our first pick are Antrel Rolle, Travis Johnson, Derrick Johnson, Carlos Rogers, or Brown to eventually replace Gandy. Although I feel as if Terry and a couple of other solid left tackles will be there in the second round as well as Shazor and Nichalson(safeties). I think we can wait third round if we decide to draft a linebacker because Michael Boley, Kirk Morrison and maybe even a Lance Mitchell might still be there.

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Waiting to fill gaps in the draft is always a bit scary to me. Sure a stud will be cheaper if we get him from the draft, but the reason he is cheaper is because of the risk that he\'ll actually not be that good. I\'ve always been in favor a strong FA as the way to make quick and more likely sure fire fixes.

I\'ll give you that this is a pretty deep draft though. Like I said earlier, why not trade down for a Safety like Davis or a DT (since I still think that is what we\'ll get anyway) and acquire an extra second round pick in this draft? That would give us an extra first day pick, and the guy I really want us to get (DJ) will be gone by #16 anyway. This way we could have, a lower 1st round pick (BPA), and two 2nd round picks (a LB and a Safety), and a 3rd (OT, QB, LB, or CB) to develop.

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Man, I like the thinking going on in this thread. Can\'t say I disagree with a lot being said. IF we trade back for Davis though Kool, that is a dicey situation. I don\'t know how much farther we can go back and still have him. A lot of mocks have Travis Johnson as being available when he draft, and it will be tough to pass on him, unless Davis is there. Any LB or CB I think we can wait til the 2nd round, and still get a good player. I also would prefer filling needs through free agency, but the team seems content to fill the holes on the line through FA and hopefully will adress D in the draft. Could work. We will be counting on ever younger players. May be a learning curve but we should be improved.

Again though, nice thoughts all around.

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

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if the saints were to get the A train where would that leave arron stecker. i guess we could keep all 3 but im sure thomas would be our number 2 and leave stecker on the squad with not much of a role.

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playa,

I\'ve heard rumors that the Saints may consider a pro-set with Duece and Stecker in. Stecker would be a better receiving option out of the backfield; it also gives us a few options regarding counters and tosses. I\'m not really sold on the idea, but there is one way Stecker may get used.

Stecker remains a good change of pace back. This would allow us to make use of his hands in play action, and his speed on third downs.

McAfee will also likely be on the roster. We will carry 4 RBs and 1 FB (Karney) if this is the case. Some teams carry as many as six backs, so we\'re still in fine shape with respect to Stecker even if we sign a bruiser to back up Duece. I\'m in favor of Dayne over the A-Train still.

Garrison Hearst is available too. I like him.

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by JKool]

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Definitely like the Train over Dayne. At least the train has been a 1000 yard rusher, even Hearst has. But Dayne has done diddly poo since he has been in the league. As a matter of fact, he outweighs Tiki by what 20, 30lbs. and Tiki is the short yardage back? Definite no-no on that waste. I\'d rather draft Anthony Davis in the 4th or 5th round or something.

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My view is that neither Dayne nor A-Train have really done all that much with their careers, and Dayne would be probably seriously cheaper. I hear where you\'re coming from on this one; I don\'t really have strong feelings one way or the other on our backup RB spot. Hearst at least brings good playoff experience and vetran leadership - and he can catch the ball, something the other two haven\'t shown much of.

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I agree on Hearst, but he is like 40 now. I don\'t mind Train or Dayne, but Train was rookie of the year a few years back. And Dayne has the dreaded \"weight problem\" stigma that we need to avoid altogether on our team. But it really doesn\'t matter which we get. IF we went pro set though, I would rather do it like the 49ers when they had Rathman and Craig. Or like the Packers with Henderson and Green. We can do it with KArney and Deuce, Karney should get a bigger role. Plus he can block if we decided to run. So then these backup guys become less important unless we have an injury to Deuce.

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I don\'t think the pro-set formation is really viable for us. Duece needs a guy in front of him, not beside him. He is a bit slow to the hole, so I don\'t think he\'d be any more effective out of a pro-set than he was out of the 2TE set.

I only noted it because it was a way that was suggested to get Stecker some more playing time. I don\'t think having Duece back there would really fool that many people; so I don\'t think it is a real option for Stecker either.

I agree that our back up is pretty irrelevant. You\'re beginning to sell me on the Train; I\'d rather have Hearst, and Train over Dayne is merely a financial question to me, really.

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I would really like to see us sign Miller or draft Brown. I do not like the idea of Mayberry playin Tackle as he is a much better guard. We need a pass blocker at RT. Mayberry is a much better run blocker than pass blocker.

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While I agree that Mayberry is not well suited for OT and it is because his outside pass blocking skills are seriously in question, I don\'t think we need a pass blocker at RT.

Traditionally, LT has to be a better all around player than the RT. This is because LT has to pass block on the QB\'s blind side. Thus, LTs are valued for being to complete OT. RTs do not have to be as good, because they can get help from the TE, traditionally lined up on the QB\'s sight side (which is the right side for right handed QBs). Also due to this, the RT is traditionally valued for his run blocking, since many plays will go to the strong side (where the TE is) which is usually the right side. Thus, we do not need a quality pass blocker at RT than a run blocker. In fact, if we got a great pass blocker, we\'d probably just move him to the LT position.

Thus, the reason that Mayberry shouldn\'t play RT is because his pass blocking is questionable (espc. against speedy rushers), so I agree! Though, I don\'t think we should be looking for a pass blocker at RT - I\'d be happy with a grinder with some more experience at OT.