Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

I only have one ranking for Joe. 33 years old.

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

When the hell did I say Joe Horn was done. Wasn\'t me. You\'re making that up. Show me where I said it. You can\'t!!

But, I can pull up where you said Joe deserves to be paid like a top 5 receiver. It wasn\'t very long ago, either.

You\'re like a crawfish. Now, stand behind your statements and quit crawfishing!

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

I don\'t really wanna get very involved here, so lemme just state this and I\'ll bow out.

Joe Horn gets open...period, and I LOVE the guy. He may be slow, but the cat can get open; however, I just don\'t think it wise for us to pay him a top 5 salary. He\'s just too old -- and Jerry Rice is unique people. Joe might be performing at the same level 3 years from now, but we\'re all aware that it\'s not very likely...aren\'t we?

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

He does DESERVE it. That doesn\'t mean I think the Saints, or anyone else, will or should give it to him any other way than by performance based incentive.

To SF - a guy who is at least reasonable - you are correct. I have said in the past that I am a fan of value. Has Joe Horn not been an incredible value for the Saints over the last 5 years? The guy has made less than $20 million in 5 years with 4 Pro Bowls. That\'s half as much as the guys like Owens, Moss, and Harrison. Now, I\'m suggesting that the Saints pay Horn well, but make his contract incentive laden. I don\'t understand why that is so bad. Here\'s an idea, why not pay him $36 million for 6 years. Would you object to that? :)

As for Delhomme, if you revisit that debate, you will see that I have always been in favor of the smart, efficient game manager at QB. I have also been in favor of surrounding him with talent. I have stated time and again that the QB\'s primary job is to get the ball to game breakers, not be one himself. Maybe I haven\'t expressed that clearly, but that has always included a talented supporting cast at WR, RB, and TE.

Do you disagree?

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

BnB - FYI - I did that a while back. Horn was top 5 in yards, receptions, yards per catch, catches over 20 yards, catches over 40 yards, and something like 7th in TDs. My starting point was the 30 or so WRs with the most yards over the last 5 years.

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Okay ... I gotcha ya! I suppose we could say that about every player in the NFL, huh? Deuce McAllister included.

Come on, dude. It don\'t work like that or haven\'t you been following the NFL long.

Hey, I know, let\'s pay Joe Horn the NFL minimum and if he puts up top 5 stats, then we\'ll pay him top 5 money.

I wonder if there\'s 5 receivers in the NFL who are worth a number 1 pick?

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Hey Billy,

You were in favor of these contracts:

Tebucky Jones:
5 years, $18.75 million - that made Jones the HIGHEST PAID SAFETY IN FOOTBALL.

Aaron Brooks:
6 years, $36 million - paid AB top 5 money at the time at QB.

You were in favor of paying those players top 5 money, were you not?

Horn is currently playing under a 3 year $13.5 million contract. If the Saints cut/trade Tebucky and Howard, you really think it will hurt the team to make that 3 years $23 million with incentives?

If you think paying a player who isn\'t top 5 money equal to a top 5 player - please explain your stance on AB again...

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

The bottom line is..Horn is BY FAR the best reciever we have...Bar none...

The FO isn\'t retarded, as much as many will disagree...and IF he is resigned..it will be a top heavy incentive contract...

Nothing wrong with that..Hey..If the guy truley does deserve top 5 money..in my opinion..he does...But..The contract would be a pay as you go kinda thing...and it would be fair for everybody...

Horn has proven to me year after year...by not only playing above many others level...but, IMPROVING on a near yearly basis...

He just came off one of the best seasons any Saint reciever has ever had...and he was 33-34...

Incentive based contract= Joe Horn producing major numbers...and..He will...

I am going out on a limb...

I guarantee..(barring injury)..Joe Horn WILL be in the Pro Bowl next year...If he can stay healthy, he IS the best reciever in the division...and one of the top 3 in the League...

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

5 reasons he isn\'t top 5
owens,moss,harrison,holt, chad johnson. i would take any of these over joe, wouldn\'t anybody?joe is in the 7-10 range and should be paid like it, or we move on!!!

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

The man has gotten better every year.Check it out. He didn\'t get started late in the NFL. He\'s started 5 seasons, so he still has a few years of wear and tear left. He\'s a warrior and a true football player. He was the Saints last year. :)

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

NAME THEM!! Let\'s have a little debate here.

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Five WR\'s Horn got to look down on and smile at from the #2 WR in the league spot. This guy has four or five years left in him. Lets cut or trade him and see how far Stallworth gets us. Can you hear me now?

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

I\'ve done this before, but it seems appropriate again.

Over the last 5 seasons Joe Horn has AVERAGED
87.5 Rec for 1260 yards and 9 TDs. He has a TOTAL of 93 catches of 20+ yards and 24 over 40 yards.

Let\'s compare that to some of the other guys who can be considered to 5.

There\'s no doubt that the statistical machine of the past 5 years is Marvin Harrison. His numbers are:

107 Rec. for 1410 yards and 13 TDs per year.

Wow. No question, that guy is great. He has fewer 20+ and 40+ yard gains, and his yards per catch (13ish) are less than Horn\'s (14.5), but he\'s a top 5er. Absolutely. How old is he? He\'ll be 33 this year. He was born in the SAME YEAR (1972) as Horn. Oh, so he\'s too old to get top 5 money then, right? Actually, he just signed a 7 year $67 million contract. Ooops.

Fine, the Colts are dumb. Give me a guy like Owens. He\'s younger and much better right? Uuhh... not really.

T.O. will be 32 this year. One year younger than Horn. Only one year younger? Yep, go look it up. His numbers don\'t exactly blow Horn\'s away either.

Horn: 87 rec for 1260 yards, 9 TDs
Owens: 89 rec for 1293 yards, 13 TDs.

OK, so Owens clearly scores more often. But 2 more catches a year for 33 more yards a year seems pretty irrelevant to me.

Likewise Owens has had only THREE more 20+ yard catches (96) and FIVE more 40+ yard catches (29) than Horn in the last five years. One, maybe one and a half more big catches than Horn and the guy is a year younger and he\'s deserving of $9 million a year while Horn whould be paid $4 million a year? That\'s just ridiculous.


Fine you say, give me Randy Moss. He\'s only 28!! And his numbers are better. Again, sort of.

Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs
Moss: 85 rec. 1283 yards 12 TDs

Like Owens, only 3 more 20+ yard catches and 6 more 40+ yard catches. Moss is also one of the biggest distractions in the league, but I guess that doesn\'t matter for a team that labels a player a cancer and ships him out if he sneezes in Haslett\'s general direction.


One other note seems relevant. Moss and Harrison are coming off their WORST seasons in the last 5. Owens is coming off his SECOND WORST.

Harrison, Moss, and Owens all put up WORSE numbers in 2004 than they did in 2002 and 2000.

Horn is coming off his best season. His numbers have improved.

Chad Johnson you say? Give me a break. The guy has only played 4 years, so I can only give you an average over that time. He is 27 though, which I\'m sure makes all the difference in the world to some people. But here are his numbers next to Horn\'s:

Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs
Johnson: 70 rec. 1031 yards 6.25 TDs

So a guy averaging almost 20 catches 250 yards and 3 TDs less per season is on Joe Horn\'s level? C\'mon. Johsnon has played better the last two seasons, I\'ll give him that. But the guy\'s stock, IMO, is inflated more by his mouth than by his play. He\'s a good WR, no question. But he\'s not Joe Horn. Not right now at least.

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

<3 WhoDat

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Very well said!! The smartest post I\'ve seen yet

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Cause it agrees with what you are saying? All these numbers are nice, but ask yourself this: Would you trade Joe Horn for
A) Torry Holt
B) Terrell Owens
C) Randy Moss
D) Hines Ward
E) Chad Johnson
F) Roy Williams(DET)
G) Drafting Mike Williams
H)Muhsin Muhammed
I) Steve Smith
J) Michael Clayton
K) Laverneus Coles
L) Javon Walker
M)Andre Johnson
N) Marvin Harrison

I would, each and every one. If you find even FIVE out of all these you would trade him for, he DOES NOT deserve top 5 money. We can put up all the numbers anyone wants. Facts is Marvin Harrison had 144 catches in 2003, NFL record. Joe ever done that? Does anyone think his numbers would drop with the emergence of Wayne and Stokley? San Fran sucked Owens numbers before he was traded to Philly. And he missed 3 games and still had more TDs than Joe. Did anyone see him in the Superbowl after his injury? And you wouldn\'t want TO over Joe? Randy moss has had the best start to his career of any receiver. Need any more be said? He was also hurt half the season. Gee, I wonder why Joe would have better numbers.

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

A) Torry Holt - Yes
B) Terrell Owens - Yes
C) Randy Moss - NO.. I don\'t want his problems
D) Hines Ward - Maybe.
E) Chad Johnson - No
F) Roy Williams(DET) - Maybe b/c of youth and freak factor
G) Drafting Mike Williams - No
H)Muhsin Muhammed - No
I) Steve Smith - No
J) Michael Clayton - No
K) Laverneus Coles - No
L) Javon Walker - Maybe
M)Andre Johnson - No
N) Marvin Harrison - Same age, same talent, same difference.

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Now Who, how did I know you would find a way not to pick five?
:P I should have called it beforehand. Randy Moss is a definite yes, screw the problems. On a talent standpoint, he blows everyone else in the league away. No on Andre Johnson? This is about as bad as Gumbo\'s love for AB. Two new rules:, NEVER disagree with you about Horn just like NEVER disagree with Gumbo about AB. Joe obviously has reached some god-like status with you my man. The Andre Johnson answer is what made it clear. ;)


[Edited on 12/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Whodi, are you just saying these names to try and prove a point or would you honestly prefer an unproven, undrafted player who hasn\'t played organized ball in a year over a pro-bowl receiver who also happens to be the team\'s only constant player?

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

Um and I quote:

Mike Williams is a beast. I must not be the only one in the NFL who thinks so since he is predicted to not only go top ten, but the overriding assumption is that Minnesota will take him to replace Randy Moss. Is Randy Moss better than Joe? Yes. Is it okay with me to draft a player to replace Joe who Minny is also targeting to replace Randy? Yes. I see he is the only guy you spoke about. So everyone else muse be a yes then huh? :o

Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
 

First of all, Joe Horn is not 34. He\'s 33. Infact for those of you that are saying he is almost 35...he dosen\'t even turn 34 until next January. Ok, ok, he is getting up there, but he is not as old as you are saying. I really don\'t believe Joe\'s production is going to drop significantly next season. He is one of the best recievers in the NFL. He is a leader and he is good for the team. So frigin what if he is 33 or 34 or 40? As long as he puts up numbers like the last few years who cares? He deserves money because he earned it and he will continue to earn it. When his numbers start to fall, then maybe we should discuss his contract or his lack of production. Right now, there is no reason to believe he will not produce like the last few years. Has his production fallen? Is there any reason, other than age, that says he is going to be a bust next season? or the season after that? No. The discussion is unwarranted until he shows signs of slowing down. Period.